Day Trading Stocks & Futures

sridhga

Well-Known Member
That would be worst idea ever.. to support private nbfc's from tax payers's money... wait wasn't that done already in western world during 2008 crisis ? so is there real economic crisis in India too? :p

Keep Calm and Carry on Trade

India is under a real estate crisis. This crisis is perpetuated via high land prices. That is one of the reasons foreigners find it difficult to set up factories in our country. In a recent pitch for foreign companies, the government offered its own land with road connectivity and easier labour laws.

In many rural areas land costs Rs. 1 crore per acre. But that land is not good enough for our farmers to sustain and they are committing suicides.

In many towns homes cost Rs. 1 crore. But when you let out such homes there are no takers for matching rent.

Land in many industrial areas is expensive. But many factories are downsizing/ closing down.

Many real estate companies built homes on lands acquired at very high prices and they do not find buyers for their flats for the corresponding selling prices.

We, as Indians some how got over-obsessed with land ownership.

If the government does anything to disturb the land prices, voters do not like it.

But real estate and its financing cannot be ignored as it is a job creator.

So the government is creating some bad asset company to take out all such loans and take over all such assets to remove them for the time being from the market and to kick start transactions.

Basically, they are trying to bail out the economy.
 
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siddhant4u

Well-Unknown Member
I also don't get it that all of SEZ in past 20-25 years of so were set up on Farm lands !! why? Why not use a non-farm land for such purpose? Set a new industrial town around it. India has too many mouth to feed and doesn't make sense taking thousands or hectres of land for Industries which doesn't need to grow anything from the ground. Take example of any cities where IT parks were set up recent decades you will find farm land near to city were bought, developed and sold to IT companies. Yes, the non-agriculture land will be bit far from town/residential area. But that's they way it should be. Keep them far from town, give good public transport connectivity. This way, there will be less pollution as well.

I agree that Indian land prices are too high. Considering major supermarkets around world are really huge, I don't see anyone buying such big land within or near town. D-Mart which considers its stores big, are actually too small in size compare to likes of Tesco/Walmart/Carrefour
 

siddhant4u

Well-Unknown Member
Ridiculous meddling by government: Ola, Uber fees may be capped at 10% of fare plus caps on peak or surge pricing. The government will destroy every industry with its interference.

Ola, Uber fees may be capped at 10 per cent of total fare


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/ola-uber-fees-may-be-capped-at-10-of-total-fare/articleshow/72269085.cms
this combined with earlier policy decision of capping market share of payment firms proves this govt doesn't support innovation or doesn't understand how new technology works.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-cap-on-market-share/articleshow/70986116.cms
 

mohan.sic

Well-Known Member
India is under a real estate crisis. This crisis is perpetuated via high land prices. That is one of the reasons foreigners find it difficult to set up factories in our country. In a recent pitch for foreign companies, the government offered its own land with road connectivity and easier labour laws.

In many rural areas land costs Rs. 1 crore per acre. But that land is not good enough for our farmers to sustain and they are committing suicides.

In many towns homes cost Rs. 1 crore. But when you let out such homes there are no takers for matching rent.

Land in many industrial areas is expensive. But many factories are downsizing/ closing down.

Many real estate companies built homes on lands acquired at very high prices and they do not find buyers for their flats for the corresponding selling prices.

We, as Indians some how got over-obsessed with land ownership.

If the government does anything to disturb the land prices, voters do not like it.

But real estate and its financing cannot be ignored as it is a job creator.

So the government is creating some bad asset company to take out all such loans and take over all such assets to remove them for the time being from the market and to kick start transactions.

Basically, they are trying to bail out the economy.
Why should Farmers who own land which value 1 crore/acre commit suicides. He can sell one acre and live happily rest of the life. In this diversified agro economy Problems of farmers & Cause of suicides are not same across regions.

In many regions, thanks to increased land rates so that farmer can sell piece of land in those emergencies I/o committing suicide. But Small farmers who cultivate leased lands are prone to this. If there is no yield from the crop due to any reason, the farmer has no alternative. Most of the govt incentives for agriculture are also benefiting land owners but not the actual farmer who is cultivating that land. ( Not blaming govt's for this. It is not easy to direct the incentive to correct person).
 
Why should Farmers who own land which value 1 crore/acre commit suicides. He can sell one acre and live happily rest of the life. In this diversified agro economy Problems of farmers & Cause of suicides are not same across regions.

In many regions, thanks to increased land rates so that farmer can sell piece of land in those emergencies I/o committing suicide. But Small farmers who cultivate leased lands are prone to this. If there is no yield from the crop due to any reason, the farmer has no alternative. Most of the govt incentives for agriculture are also benefiting land owners but not the actual farmer who is cultivating that land. ( Not blaming govt's for this. It is not easy to direct the incentive to correct person).
There are many laws governing the sale of agricultural land. The prices mentioned maybe after conversion to NA (Non-agriculture).
 

mohan.sic

Well-Known Member
There are many laws governing the sale of agricultural land. The prices mentioned maybe after conversion to NA (Non-agriculture).
Even agri lands sir. I live in AP. Agriculture lands on godavary delta range from 0.3 to 3 cr. Usually when the value is exceeding 2 cr/acre they keep changing to Non-agri. Not necessarily they get converted in govt records but usually as they have scope to get sold as residential lands they convert to them to layouts either panchayat or town planning whatever.
 

vikas2131

Well-Known Member
this combined with earlier policy decision of capping market share of payment firms proves this govt doesn't support innovation or doesn't understand how new technology works.



https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-cap-on-market-share/articleshow/70986116.cms

Here is Another One . Can debate the merits of the bullet train project (& it's not like it was speeding thru the Fadnavis govt either) but between this & Jagan Reddy's actions in Andhra, sends quite the message to investors re India & the sanctity of contracts .

Never mind that more than 80% of project cost is to be funded by JICA at 0.1 % interest on a 50 year loan.

ShivSena ,Congress & NCP to put brakes on PM Modi's bullet train project.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/sen...akes-on-pm-modis-bullet-train-project-2139338
 

siddhant4u

Well-Unknown Member
Here is Another One . Can debate the merits of the bullet train project (& it's not like it was speeding thru the Fadnavis govt either) but between this & Jagan Reddy's actions in Andhra, sends quite the message to investors re India & the sanctity of contracts .

Never mind that more than 80% of project cost is to be funded by JICA at 0.1 % interest on a 50 year loan.

ShivSena ,Congress & NCP to put brakes on PM Modi's bullet train project.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/sen...akes-on-pm-modis-bullet-train-project-2139338
thing is State govt (be it Guj or Maha) both are under heavy debt. They can't even afford rest of 10-10% investment. As you rightly said Fandanvis was not in hurry as he was busy with his pet project of Mumbai-Nagpur Samruddhi Highway!! That project costs 46,000 Cr and nearly 90% land is already acquired.

Although 0.1% interest is nominal, but USD/INR prices fluctuate and $13 billion cost is already 16% higher in last 5 yr
 

sridhga

Well-Known Member
I will explain how high cost of land coupled with low yield value is driving farmers to the brink.

In Konaseema region of East Godavari district in Andhra Pradesh, you cannot get even agricultural land below Rs. 1.5 crores per acre. Most of the lands there are coconut plantations and they have 70 coconut trees per acre which yield about 7 to 8 or some times 10 coconuts per tree per month for about 10 months in a year. Coconut selling price would be Rs. 1.5 to Rs.2 The laborer who climbs the tree charges like say 500 per day and 2 laborers can cover one acre a day. If you calculate, the incomes would be very low even for a person who owns 10 aces of land. Some of them survive by inter cropping bananas and they get about Rs 30K to 50K per acre per year for this additional exercise. Some farmers do not prefer banana inter-cropping because it temporarily increases the coconut yield due to the additional fertilizer used in banana and in the years that they stop planting bananas, the yields fall impacting the long-term output of the coconuts. It is difficult to live on some 5 acres there, but if you are diligent, you can inter crop and grow all your family vegetables, live stock etc and you can survive. But if you sell you get 1.5 crores per acre and your children should study well and get out of the place to survive. But if you keep owning and surviving, sometimes government throws incentives like loan waiver or direct benefit transfer etc. Some become coconut traders, they hoard coconuts and dry them under the sun and make oil. This requires knack of business and it worked for some and it did not for many. The trading part is similar to our stock trading. You play with the fluctuating prices.

Lands near Sangli in Maharashtra cost around Rs. 1 crore per acre. They cultivate grapes and convert them to kismish. When the crop comes for harvesting there is a lot of processing to be done. They dry the fruit for about 2 months in the sun. In California, they use electric driers for the same. Then they store the product in cold storages for about 5 or 6 months and the cold storage charges Rs, 4 to Rs. 6 per box per month. Cost per box to buy in wholesale markets is just Rs. 800 to rs. 1500 and then you store them to later sell in Kanpur for green Kismish, or to bakeries for black low grade one etc. The transportation from Sangli to Hyderabad or Bengaluru or Mumbai costs Rs. 15 per box and the product has a shelf life and it has to be stored in cold storage paying the rent and it is like playing with options in the stock market, a product with high potential and low shelf life. I think I covered more of trading part here than farming part because that is what I know. Hyderabad used to have grape farms on its outskirts similar to Sangli and when they started building the International airport all grape farmers sold out their lands for Rs. 1 crore to Rs. 2 crores, and, enjoyed life driving SUVs, and, now dont even ask me what they are doing. Now there is not a single acre of grape plantation around Hyderabad.

Lands in Coorg in Karnataka are very fertile and they grow coffee, jackfruit etc. India's biggest land owner running listed companies committed suicide in that state by jumping into Netravati river few months ago. He thought that every acre should be valued for atleast Rs. 1 crore by the banks for rolling over his loans and the banks do not want to value those 22,000 acres anywhere more than Rs. 8,000 crores. Why? Because if the banks have to liquidate them, imagine them putting 22,000 acers in just 3 districts on sale! The prices crash and there wont be buyers. That you can compare to circuit breaker situation on our stock markets. But there are no circuits there. The only circuits are the minimum bid prices that the banks set. Some lenders are doing the same thing with promoter pledged shares. Dumping them in the markets and they hit lower circuits.

Lands in Kerala are very fertile, but that did not stop our Kerala brothers from migrating to other places for work and survival.

High land values kill business even if it is agricultural business. New entrepreneurs cannot set up businesses even if it is trading because they need to stock their goods and they need land for that.

Why some of these farmers do not sell out the land and bail out? Several reasons like lack of education, indebtedness to banks or moneylenders where the lands are not of free titles anymore. Psychological pressure in the village and family and they do not know any alternate trade or skill to survive if they sold their lands. If they sold lands they turn themselves from landlords to tenant farmers or agricultural laborers. Also if they own the land they still hope some government will throw freebies when elections are around. They get into debt. In the stock market scenario, this is like not exiting when stop losses are hit.


Later during the day, if somebody is interested, I will explain how agriculture operates differently in the USA and Canada as compared to that of our country.
 
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