Timepass's notes

Summary of Subhadeep's 2MA system (explanation in case we are Long)

Two MAs 21SMA and 8EMA

Two timeframe combination:
Hourly-15min.
15min.-5min

First confirm Higher time frame candle close above both MAs, no need of MA cross.

come to lower timeframe to take position for e.g go long when:
there is a minor pivot break
visual pivot break
break out from a range/flag
Breakout failure

Stop Loss: low of two bar back (from the entry candle, both the preceding bars should be lower than entry bar)/a minor pivot (if it is closer)

Exit: at a visual pivot (entirely or part profit booking, rest may be trailed or kept till end of day), known resistance.

Don't enter in previous afternoon range (unless you are Subhadeep:D) afternoon roughly means after European market opens i.e.
after 1:30pm

Being a trend based system, only enter when in clear trend.

vice-versa for short situation.

please feel free to add to above points or correct me:)
Thanks
Regards
..............................
 
TP

Of all the posts in this thread , no where has it been said that don't use indicators.

The only advise is not to heavily rely on indicators and focus on price action also.

I have seen a lot of traders start using indicators,then get into optimization and then into spotting divergence,etc,etc and when they get nothing from it they get into another indicator and the search continues.

Also price action takes into account supports and resistance also,not single candle in isolation.That is why chart patterns and candlestick patterns also should not be studies in isolation but at important support and resistances.

The same applies to indicators.People use indicators designed for EOD basis on the smallest of timeframes ,viz 1 minute and expect the same results.

Usually, traders just randomly pick an indicator, place it on their charts and then try to make use of it without really understanding what they are looking at.

How wise is that ?

Therefore, the debate whether indicator based trading is superior over price action based trading is redundant.

A trader may use whatever is comfortable to him and his risk appetite.
Traders always look for reasons why a trade turned out to be a losing trade. In quest of answers, they arbitrarily alter indicator settings, add new indicators or seek for answers elsewhere until they have found a possible explanation why their signal was “not correct”. It is important to understand that you will always be able to find reasons why a trade did not work out if you just play around with indicators long enough.

A broad classification of the indicators and their use,I doubt whether those people who use them excluding senior and professional traders ever know their use and in which context.(read "trending or sideways markets").





Good article for using indicators effectively.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/12/using-trading-indicators-effectively.asp

Bottom Line:
If you are randomly selecting indicators to support your analysis, you will more than likely fall into the multicollinearity trap of using multiple indicators that are all saying the same thing. They are not giving you any additional information; in fact, they are restricting your overall view of the market. Don't search for supporting information among collinear indicators, it is just misleading.
..............................
 
TP

Of all the posts in this thread , no where has it been said that don't use indicators.

The only advise is not to heavily rely on indicators and focus on price action also.

I have seen a lot of traders start using indicators,then get into optimization and then into spotting divergence,etc,etc and when they get nothing from it they get into another indicator and the search continues.

Also price action takes into account supports and resistance also,not single candle in isolation.That is why chart patterns and candlestick patterns also should not be studies in isolation but at important support and resistances.

The same applies to indicators.People use indicators designed for EOD basis on the smallest of timeframes ,viz 1 minute and expect the same results.

Usually, traders just randomly pick an indicator, place it on their charts and then try to make use of it without really understanding what they are looking at.

How wise is that ?

Therefore, the debate whether indicator based trading is superior over price action based trading is redundant.

A trader may use whatever is comfortable to him and his risk appetite.
Traders always look for reasons why a trade turned out to be a losing trade. In quest of answers, they arbitrarily alter indicator settings, add new indicators or seek for answers elsewhere until they have found a possible explanation why their signal was “not correct”. It is important to understand that you will always be able to find reasons why a trade did not work out if you just play around with indicators long enough.

A broad classification of the indicators and their use,I doubt whether those people who use them excluding senior and professional traders ever know their use and in which context.(read "trending or sideways markets").





Good article for using indicators effectively.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/12/using-trading-indicators-effectively.asp

Bottom Line:
If you are randomly selecting indicators to support your analysis, you will more than likely fall into the multicollinearity trap of using multiple indicators that are all saying the same thing. They are not giving you any additional information; in fact, they are restricting your overall view of the market. Don't search for supporting information among collinear indicators, it is just misleading.
..............................
 
dear time pass,
as u have already clarified taking consideration for lot of indicators always confusing i feel if we take only volume and moving average give better result rest depend on individual style. thanks for nice post

amrit
 
Answers to the questions that are going to be asked from time to time
I will give short answers in the same serial order as the questions.

1) I came to stock markets at the age of 26-27 but that was mainly for investments in stock markets. Invested in FERA diluting companies,new issues and companies like Reliance,Colgate,L&T ,Hind Lever, Tata Steel etc. There was no thought of trading as I was in a high paying job . Trading I started from age of 35 and my first trade was sell of 50 Telco in cash market in daytrade.

2) Started trading full time from the age of 40 on small capital and that was definately tough to support household expenses and HDFC housing loan installments on trading income as there was no second source of income.

3) It took me almost 4-5 years to be a consistantly profitable trader.There were many up and downs in that period.The performance improved when I started understanding that I should not get attached to my analysis and the action of the market is supreme and I have to adjust myself according to that. Analysis should take a backseat and price should take a driver's seat in our trading.And if analysis and price action both match, there you have a winning combination.

Smart_trade
As far as I remember, longest spell of losing trades in daytrading was about 10-12 continuous losing trades. But worst is after long spell of losing trades we get few winning trades and losing trades spell starts again.

Continuous losing days about 5-6 but 2-3 months of flat trading where nothing seems to be going your way. Anything you do does not seem to work. I have encountered such 2-3 months spell which is very frustrating and heavy on mind. You have to take such spells in your stride and that is why position sizing and MM is very important.

There is bright sunlight at the end of dark tunnel and after such spell we get huge trending moves. But one has to survive in these dark tunnel period.

Smart_trade
 
Good article. I don't use MACD, but this article deserves repeated reading.
The MACD indicator is a very popular trend indicator on the mt4 platform. It is the first oscillators a new trader would want to use on his chart. When we trade with the MACD, we try to find how moving averages relate to the price. Many traders use this indicator to find a new trend. An MACD on a chart would show you if the new trend is a downtrend (bearish) or if the trend is an uptrend (bullish). As traders, we know how many pips we gain/loose when we open/close a position rightly when a major trend is just forming.

This write-up will teach you how to get strong signals using the MACD. There are picture illustrations taken from the Profiforex Mt4 platform (very fast in order execution and data display)
On your MT4 charts, the MACD can work well on monthly, weekly, or daily charts. When you add it on a price chart, the MACD will show you when the moving averages are moving apart and when they are coming together. This is called divergence and convergence respectively. Most times, when you trade MACD on your MT4, the standard setting of the MACD is "12, 26, and 9". What does this mean to our trade?


The MACD helps us to see the relationship between two moving averages and the price. When trading with the MACD, make sure to use exponential moving averages and not the simple moving averages. This would clear some lags. The standard setting or input parameters for the MACD on your MT4 platform are an EMA 12, another with a period of 26 and then there is the signal line with the period of 9. Also important in trading the MACD is the MACD line. This MACD line is the difference between the 26 and the 12-period EMA.


Now let us go to trading with the MACD proper. When we have a downtrend in the market, the fast moving average (moving average with the smaller period) will move down at greater speed than the slow moving average (the moving average with bigger period). The fast moving average would now cross the slow moving average down. In an uptrend market, the fast moving average would cross the slow moving average up. The MACD line will show the relationships too.
From the image below, you can see the relationship between the 12 and 26 period EMAs as both of them were applied on the chart along with MACD with a chosen period of 12 (for the faster EMA), and 26 period (for the slower EMA. Please note that the signal line is not present here)



Notice that MACD helped traders notice the trend change from a very early stage, as the blue boxes above began before the downtrend was completely finished.
You can see that the MACD greatly helps traders in noticing the change in a trend when it is early and just forming as we saw from our image above that the blue boxes began before the downtrend was totally finished. This is how traders use the MACD to trade. But to understand this very well, from the image above, you will see a "0" line drawn on the MACD indicator. This is a very vital aspect of the indicator as with the help of the "0" line, the trader will be able to tell when there is no difference between the two EMA. This happens when they intersect (crossovers).
So the MACD line will cross the "0" line either up or down depending on whether the fast moving average crosses the slow one up or down too. Before we explain this further, let us talk about another vital part of the MACD we need for our trade; the signal line.

As we saw above, MACD can really play a great role in helping traders notice a potential trend change at a very early stage of a currency pair’s move. Trading the "0"line crossover is no more different from opening or closing a trade once the two EMA intersect; this is not the best we can get as these may not always be the best point of entry and exit.

Now this is how the signal line comes in. The signal line is basically a simple moving average gotten from the value of the MACD line. The default for the MT4 setting is usually at a period of 9. For a better means to determine when to open or close a position, we would look at how the MACD crosses the signal line. When the MACD line crossing over the signal line or moving above it, it is a signal to BUY. And when the MACD crosses below the signal line, it is a SELL signal.




(On the image above, the MACD line is the red line while the signal line is blue, watch how they cross each other). What we are saying here is that when the MACD crosses the zero line upward, we see this as a signal to buy. But for us to be surer that it is truly a buy signal, we wait for the MACD not only to cross the "0" line upwards. We wait for it to also cross the "0" line upward and still cross the signal line upwards too. In the other side, to sell, we don't just wait for the MACD to cross the "0" line downward. We now sell when the MACD crosses the "0" line downwards and also crosses the signal line too downwards below the "0" line. This was well shown in the image above.

Finally we will talk about the last component of our basic MACD. This is the MACD histogram. So that we can know better how the Signal line relates with the MACD, a MACD histogram was brought up. This histogram is simply a bar chart which is plotted around the "0" line. It tells you the how the MACD line is moving in relation to the signal line. So this time, when the MACD line crosses the signal line UP, the histogram will cross the "0" line UP too. Equally, when the MACD crosses the "0" line DOWN, the histogram crosses the "0" line DOWN too. This is shown in the image below.




So looking at the chart above, you can clearly see that how the histogram shows us the relationship between the MACD line (red) and the signal line (blue). Also note that the histogram briefly "disappears" at that point where the MACD and signal line momentarily cross. This is because the difference the MACD and the signal line at this point of intersection is 0. And then if a downtrend is forming from there, we see the histogram getting bigger under the "0" line. The bigger the histogram, the stronger the trend. Isn't this wonderful?

Let me put in here that on your MT4, the standard setting for your MACD is "12, 26, 9". The fast EMA is first listed, next is the slower EMA and finally is the signal line input. But you must not always use them, you can vary them based your taste.
Hope this article has been helpful.
THANKS!!
 
Just noting it down.

Market is an ocean and I am not even a small droplet in that ocean...so anyone can not only compete but most welcome to beat me in mutual funds investments.

I have investments in the following :

1) Large cap Diversified Equity schemes
like Franklin India Frontline Equity Fund,Birla Sunlife Top 100 Fund,ICICI Value Discovery Fund,Birla Sunlife Long Term Advantage Fund,Franklin India Bluechip Fund,Motilal Oswal Focussed 25 Fund,ICICI Prudential Focussed Bluechip Equity Fund,Franklin India Prima Plus Fund ...

2) ELSS Funds like Reliance Taxsaver,Axis Long Term Equity Fund and Motilal Oswal Focussed Long Term Fund.

3) Midcap and Multicap Funds such as Franklin India Prima Fund,HDFC Midcap Fund,Motilal Oswal Focussed Midcap 30 Fund, Motilal Oswal Focussed Multicap 35 Fund

4) Debt Funds : HDFC High Interest Fund and Birla Sunlife Dynamic Bond Fund

Also have few sector funds in banking and Pharma....but in this dip I will be looking to buy the diversified large cap equity funds ie from item no 1 above...

Need to reduce total number of funds...funds list is reading like a mutual fund itself :D

Smart_trade
Hi Friends,

I have trading account with following brokers.
I had started my trading journey in MAY 2012.
Account opened year mentioned in side.

1. Indiabulls 2012
2. Zerodha 2012
3. RKSV 2012
4. Trade Smart Online 2013
5. VPS Share 2013
6. AliceBlue 2013
7. Achiievers 2014
8. Astha Trade 2014
9. F6 Finserve 2014
10. Finvasia 2015
11. Trade Easy 2016

Except F6 Finserve all other brokers are good in customer support.

Currently trading with Trade Easy with 20 Times exposure for NIFTY FIFTY STOCK Futures(NIFTY FUTURE, BANKNIFTY FUTURE AND TOP 50 VOLUME STOCK FUTURES), and 5 times exposure for all other stock futures. These exposures provided in MIS order.

To avail the mentioned exposures, they charge 490 per crore turnover+clearing charges(which is very very high when compared with discount brokers, which usually will be 210 per crore), and 20 per executed order. Since this much MIS exposure in this price tag not available with other brokers, I had opted for Trade Easy.

If you use Bracket Orders, then SAS online will be the best choice with 9 per order plan.

If I use trailing stop in Bracket order, All the trailing stoploss exit will be a stoploss market order. When using Stoploss market orders for trailing stoploss, for every trailing stoploss exit, there is 30% extra slippage(If Risk amount is Rs 1000, slippage will be Rs 300, so total loss is Rs 1300).

Consider all exits via Trailing stoploss only. If I do 100 trades per month, then slippage will be 0.3% * 100 = 30%. So even if I make 30% profit per month, after deducting 30% slippage, there will be no profits at all. To overcome this issue, I have a idea.

I will enter all trades with Stoploss Limit order. Then I will place a initial stoploss order which will be a Stoploss Market order(Slippage applicable here). Then when price moves forward, and I will place trailing stoploss order which is a stoploss limit order(there will be no slippage in this order). After placing trailing stoploss I won't cancel the initial stoploss market order.

According to my research in paper trading, in total 100 trades per month, about 50 trades will hit the initial stoploss(slippage happens in this order), and remaining 50 trades will get exited using Trailing Stoploss(no slippage in this order).

So now the slippage will be for 50 trades is ( 50 * 0.3% = 15% slippage ). So If I make 30% net profit after brokerage, then after deducting 15% slippage, there will be 15% net profit per month.

Slippage is the basic difference between real and paper trading.
 
Something to remember... must look it up sometime.

Thanks TracerBullet :thumb:

I dont fully trust Debit/Credit cards, a simple rsa key + pin would be so much better. In usa, i think the liability in case of fraud is on the banks but not here.

Anyway, What i do is keep them in liquid/UST Mutual funds and minimal amount in Bank. Reliance and DSP Blackrock allow instant redemption, weekends too. i tested reliance MMF and got money within 30 seconds. Cant get any better.
1) Entry loads have been abolished in MFs, There are usually no exit loads in Liquid/UST schemes, you can also verify that for any new scheme in Value research or fund factsheet. So no loads.

2) yes, transferred to bank. I used Reliance Money Manager Fund

3) Returns depend on interest rates, Liquid funds will give slightly less than Ultrashort term Funds. Anyway, Reliance MMF gave decent returns for last 3 years (around 9%). But this will reduce now as interest rates have crashed. Maybe 6.5-7.5 in future ( just guessing).

This will apply to all debt - they will give lower accrual returns when IR reduces and stabilizes. Anyway, what matters for us is Real returns and inflation is also reducing.

4) Holding period is upto you. There is no lock. I took out in 1 day and then transferred back.

5) Make sure to invest in DIRECT versions. Regular has much higher expenses that go to your broker every year.
 
Last edited:
Synopsis of Varun Kochar's 36ema on price and OBV.
Vivekbhai & rest of fellow TJians, who are getting confused.

http://www.traderji.com/words-wisdom/103474-best-trading-system-4.html#post1198667

Varunji started posting about his system first in thread run by Tuna. Most of people have not read the beginning of the system hence this confusion.

The original system traded by Varunji is 36/200 EMA on price/OBV, with Bollinger bands/keltner bands etc.

Only one rule was long above 200EMA both in price/OBV & short bellow 200 EMA both in price OBV. 36 EMA was used for taking adds, profit booking etc.
He has traded this method profitably for enough time to visually interpret things just by looking at a chart. The channels created by BB/Keltner had use in managing position i.e. adds/profit booking etc. Which he explained.
Now if you look at original chart, for a layman it is damn difficult to make out what to do with it, but for him it was a mint.

Once he posted his system, Happyji came along with his coding skills. So Varun ji started asking for coding things which he was visually seeing & trading in his charts (BO/BD of OBV/Price, OBV/Price levels etc). Happy ji obliged with Ribbons, which was making life easier, also it started giving new insights to Varunji too.

As this Ribbons are new to even Varunji he started posting his observations about them, to people who have started in the middle of the thread it become confusing.

In a way you can say Ribbon system is still evolving, for very experienced traders it is easier to grasp the concept and trade it successfully (Varun Ji himself, ST da, Xray ji etc). For people who are yet to get that screen time and understanding of PA it will take some more time.

So at this stage it is too early to ask for rules, when new observation/interpretation comes along.

If anyone feels offended by my explanation kindly ignore it.:thumb:
OK guys ...here what I learnt from this method :)
If any one read this thread then full of confussions ...so be read it as seperately every method here ...
1.if using 200 ,36 ema and OBV ...
Long entry when price &OBV bo above 200
short entry when price &OBV bd above 200
better to use any type of pivot for entry
you can use pvt below 36 ema when trade goes our ways
also add can take when pullback happen upto 36 ema
2.15 OBV ribbon
Simply go long when ribbon changes to BLUE
go short when ribbon changes to RED
use any thing bar/any kind pivots for entry
3.HH-HL ribbon
Long entry when we get HL-HH range of ribbon (look vijaykris afl)
short entry when we get LH-LL ranges of ribbon
for entry you can use Bars /any type of pivots
trail SL with ranges when trade moves our direction
4.You can use ydays OBV closing for trend bias...means if trading above ydays OBV close means bullish bias ...vice versa for bearish bias..
One can take only bias side trade if want to away from some whips :)
5.we can use ydays OBV high & Lows too for bias...if above ydays high bullish ,below ydays lows means bearish, inside means sideways etc
one can trade this as seperately and also can use all things to judge the trade ...
as am very weak in words please forgive me any words mistaken....

BETTER TO USE 50/100 POINT EXITS WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT TO CONTROL GREED :D
 
One more interesting strategy.

TP …. I am not good at writing don’t know what I will right down if I try to write …… so in short for scalping you can try this ………
In nesttrader try this 2 formula ….
(High – (high * 0.01)) for short
& (low + (low * 0.01)) for long
first watch for few days to see its working for you or not…..
Let me post 2 examples

1. (High – (high * 0.01)) for short

Suppose NF high 9000 then
{9000 - (9000 x 0.01)}
= 9000 - 90
= 8910

So you think one should wait till 8910 for a short for a scalp.

2. (low + (low * 0.01))

Suppose NF low is 8900 then
{8900 + (8900 x 0.01)}
= 8900 + 89
= 8989

So you want to say that one should wait till 8989 to go long for a scalp :D

IMO, even stocks in the range of 200 - 500 may not work (leave aside higher price stocks), unless there is very high volatility and stocks below 200 wont work because of volatility and applicable cost and taxes. I do not understand how these formulas are working for you and for what stocks.

If I am wrong (may be I didnt understand your scalping strategy), then please explain with examples.
right work when high volatility ……. sudden big fall & then bounce back ……. work with share below 400/300 …… hardly 1 trade a day among 50 share list ……. & if discomfort with the level 0.01 you can decrease the value ……. this for scalping minimum not maximum …… & already said first watch for few days to see its working or not…..

and about me …… stop using such thing long ago ....... this for beginner if you want you can try :D
taken nifty daily chart for example ……..
you can use it according to your own understanding & observation …..

View attachment 21220
No, no
Certainly not meant for me :D
I hardly trade stocks, only NF and BNF
And if I follow this strategy then leave aside scalping, I wont be left with even positional trades.
And my whole day(s) will be passed in SOH :lol:

BTW
I posted examples only to explain and to seek that my understanding was correct about this method or not.
and
Secondly, why posting such strategy that you yourself are not following now OR (as you said) left long ago.
 

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