Thoughts on "The A to Z of trading career - musings of a professional trader !!"

Nikhil Dogra

Well-Known Member
One issue i face in my intra day trading is the tendency to focus on "sensory perceptions" rather than my own technical system which seems slow to me , it has gotten to the point where i can sense things happening randomly , my point is how to find solution for these "sensory perceptions" because often its at odds with my own technical system leading to conflict. What is the solution especially when you know your historic stats of the intra day system ?
 
One issue i face in my intra day trading is the tendency to focus on "sensory perceptions" rather than my own technical system which seems slow to me , it has gotten to the point where i can sense things happening randomly , my point is how to find solution for these "sensory perceptions" because often its at odds with my own technical system leading to conflict. What is the solution especially when you know your historic stats of the intra day system ?
"Gut feeling" is often a good indicator for intraday, provided you are strict with your stoplosses. Also, if you are reasonably sure that the gut feeling is based on years of experience and not any other bias.

I use gut feeling with equities, not with futures because the quantity is huge with futures. Even with equities, I stagger my trade. e.g. if Unionbank spot is hovering around 168.5 for quite some time and I feel that it will break on the upside, I will place buy orders for 100 qnty at 10 paisa intervals from 168.5 to 167.5, with appropriate stoploss around 166.8 or so. If all the 10 buy orders don't get filled, it's ok. Again, if somewhere I feel that it was a screw up, I would get out as fast as possible.
 

Nikhil Dogra

Well-Known Member
I often reverse my positions as well despite being directionally biased to the other side. I have still not settled on a intra trading system.. dynamic nature of markets make me think one system hinder performance rather than enhances it at a short time scale. Its just stressing me out right now not knowing what to do or not to do intra day.
 
Actually it seems to me that intraday has more "don't"s than "do"s.

Sitting out seems the best option most of the times. Scalping seems to be the way in. It seems that the price usually reaches your targets, but whipsaws often enough to scare you away or take out your SL. These days I am giving a lot of importance to ADX on 10/15 min with 2 x ATR as SL.
 

madank

Market participant
hi..
please share your real time experience in getting mentor for you ( i assume you had mentor in USA or somewhere)....
Marimuthu - That happened long time ago around 2007 and lost mentor relationship with John around 2011 (little after i started trading Indian markets). I was living in Atlanta and he was living in Austin,TX. After reading his book, i had couple of questions about his trading idea and contacted him via email. No response for my numerous emails for 3 months. Then i emailed my trading plan to him(extensive) with no response either. Then, i emailed him about my psychological issues and received a response for it. Looking at the question, a seasoned trader would know instantly if the other person is trading for real or not. Guess, he got the idea that am trading real money and he responded.

Then, built on conversations with him further and participated in his in-house mentorship for 1 week(he does this to only 3 guys in an year) . Seeing him trade live and talking for hours in the evening made me realise that this profession is not about that great idea or the next hot indicator (thanks to John here) but its all about 'you'. I wanted to argue that indicators/price action makes money but there is no arguing with success (not saying that we dont need PA or indicators but we have to get past that point to step into this profession seriously). The proof was in the pudding.

I have met Mark Douglas in John's office once when i was in Austin and got a chance to speak with him for an hour (Mark and John were buddies and Mark speaks in John's webinars online) I dint know who was Mark that time. He came to John's office to go together with him to some trader's conference in Las vegas...very fortunate to meet him. Just me, Mark and John. That 1.5 hours was worth more than 100 trading books. I still vivdly remember that conversation. That shook my belief about 'making money' in markets. It is about how we handle ourselves in the market (as long as we have a structured way of accessing the market - he meant rules) when things go in our way/does not go in our way. So, spending 1-2 hours one-on-one with a successsful/experienced trader can never be replaced with books. I would urge you guys to meet with fellow traders (esp successful traders) in your city and you never know - That could be your paradigm shift in trading !!

So, my mentor-mentee relationship ( John will never call it that way - it was more like a friendly banter most of the times) continued for 4.5 years. Am still in touch with him but dont talk about trading that much. He's got three beautiful kids and pretty busy growing up with them.

One issue i face in my intra day trading is the tendency to focus on "sensory perceptions" rather than my own technical system which seems slow to me , it has gotten to the point where i can sense things happening randomly , my point is how to find solution for these "sensory perceptions" because often its at odds with my own technical system leading to conflict. What is the solution especially when you know your historic stats of the intra day system ?
Nikhil - Thanks for writing here. It is very difficult to make it in this profession if we dont control the urge to be in the markets all the time. This might not seem to be a big issue now but it will manifest into different things as you mature in trading. So, its better to nip it in the bud. If you still can't do it, allocate some capital for 'gut trades' (to quench your thirst for thrill and emotional high) and trade with it. Please separate your trading account from this account. In this regard, you can also track your 'gut trades' in an uniform manner and also, satisfy your emotional needs.

But, please do remember that our brain cannot compartmentalise emotions. Everything gets stored, accessed and felt in a very complex manner. So, the 'conflict of interest' cannot be avoided even if you keep a separate trading account for gut trades. There will be times where your gut trades would have made money(or saved you from SL) whereas your regular trades would have lost money(or would have made you sit idle). These are the moments that can erode your emotional capital. You would be in a fix on choosing between the two when that happens next time in real. The vice-versa will also occur many times wherein your regular trades would make money and gut trades would lose. Again, you are in an emotional mess when you get real and gut trades together.

Long story short - please avoid either rule based trades ot gut trades totally. Am taking the risk of sounding like a charlatan here but sooner or later, you will see yourself in a downward spiral (both mentally and financially).

Good luck !!
 

madank

Market participant
Hi madhan,
I am really surprised to hear that you met Mr.Mark Dougles...

:):):):):)
Honestly, i did not know who he was that time. Not even an iota of clue. John told me he had authored couple of famous books on trading psychology but i was cocky enough to not heed to that psychology BS that moment :) :) Later, when I read his 'Trading in the zone' and 'Disciplined trader' - it was a crazy eye-opener. Had i realised who he was when i met him, i would have definitely flown to trader's expo in Vegas with them (to get that extra chat time with Mark). Instead, i flew back to atlanta that weekend :(

Very down-to-earth and humble(to the core) guy. Most of the top level/accomplished folks are always humble. One wonders if they got this trait after going up to the top or they went up because of this trait. It's better to assume the latter as it seems to be a common trait among successful people in various walks of life :)
 
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Intraday trading is surely risky unless you assess the risk and trade with caution. Having said this, pick stocks only on the basis of news for the beginning, they will give good movement. Technical charts may be difficult to interpret for beginners, and sentiments are often influenced by big news in the market. So we suggest that you look for the current sentiments about the stock before taking a call for intraday.
 

Nikhil Dogra

Well-Known Member
Long story short - please avoid either rule based trades ot gut trades totally. Am taking the risk of sounding like a charlatan here but sooner or later, you will see yourself in a downward spiral (both mentally and financially).

Good luck !!
Is it possible to combine perceptions with system i.e If i trade 4 Lots & i feel i should reverse however my system says to keep 4 lot long & i acknowledge the perception but at the same time follow the system by keeping 1Lot long instead of 4Lots.
I am a hardcore algo trader positionally however the trouble is only in intraday where perceptions interfere.
 

XRAY27

Well-Known Member
Madan sir !!!

Your help (reply to my post about all in and add on) has relieved a lot with respective to trading plan,as i'm much more comfortable with all in rather with add on ,before that i also suffered a bit ,you can say it hesitation ,confusion with regard to trade qty...now that part is completely covered... moving in peaceful manner in all three (intra/swing/positional)
 

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