Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[Satyen]

Thank you Dear RK exactly the things happened with me what you say now

Regards
Satya

 

[Prabhjeet]

Hello Prabhjeet, How do we decide which move qualifies as a Verticle move!!!!

In a fluid move 3 bars of 60 minutes the 12 noon, 1 PM and 2 PM bars on Friday move ~165 points!!!! To me even visually this is a verticle move!!!! The next two bars also made higher lows and thereafter the mkt moved sideways. As per 2 bar method 2 PM low becomes the SL, which was 4375 and was not taken out by todays low!!! We now have a valid pivot so we move as per the pivot now!!!! So we are still long!!!

Had we changed to 30 minutes chart at 11.30 when the mkt started to move sideways, we would observe the 10 AM bar as a pivot!!!! If we consider it as a valid pivot, we would go short below that with the high of yesterdays 4 PM bar as SL and later moved it to todays 12 NOON bar's high as SL when the same became a valid pivot!!!!!

So we have two scenarios one triggering a short and the other keeping us long!!!!!

I might have erred in either or both and would like to get views from all who are trading this!!!!

Many of us (myself included) get swayed by the right side of the chart!!!! We very conveniently change our view as per situation but that could lead us to trouble (read losses).....

May be both my views are correct. in such a case which one should be followed : my suggestion : follow any one of you choice, but do that now and always..... do not deviate from it, i am suggesting to do things consistingly, then there should be is no problem.

SO DO NOTE DOWN YOUR TRADING RULES!!!! and follow them

Refer to your notes when in doubt and still if we cannot clear it :

Saint hai naa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RK I also agree that these vertical moves are subjective things but as I see it we only had 3 bars which were wide range bars and if we put a stoploss at 2 bars back then what would be the kind of profits that we will be left with and we are not trading for peanuts, we want to get the meat out of trend.

Look I may be wrong but whenever we will have a trend reversal these will be the kind of moves seeing and if we keep on taking profits we will be halting the flow every now and then. Its now upon us to decide what kind of objective criteria do we keep as a filter for these vertical moves.

I suggest these criteria for Nifty charts on 60 min. to be counted as vertical :-

1. Atleast 5 bars in te direction of trend without any pivots in between

2. Atleast 7-8% straight move in direction of trend without any pivot in between

3. Huge gap in the direction of trend which already has been running since many days.

Rest there are many experienced people here who can help. May be even Saint would drop in to help

 

[rkkarnani]

RK I also agree that these vertical moves are subjective things but as I see it we only had 3 bars which were wide range bars and if we put a stoploss at 2 bars back then what would be the kind of profits that we will be left with and we are not trading for peanuts, we want to get the meat out of trend.

Look I may be wrong but whenever we will have a trend reversal these will be the kind of moves seeing and if we keep on taking profits we will be halting the flow every now and then. Its now upon us to decide what kind of objective criteria do we keep as a filter for these vertical moves.

I suggest these criteria for Nifty charts on 60 min. to be counted as vertical :-

1. Atleast 5 bars in te direction of trend without any pivots in between

2. Atleast 7-8% straight move in direction of trend without any pivot in between

3. Huge gap in the direction of trend which already has been running since many days.

Rest there are many experienced people here who can help. May be even Saint would drop in to help

Thanks for your input Prabhjeet!!!
The move is not only about just number of bars, but the size of the bar matters, big bars or WRB's, so try as much as we can some subjectivity shall remain when perceived by two different mind sets!!!???
Hence my suggestion to try to follow the same system every time we trade!!! My aim is to bring down the subjectivity to ZERO and for that I am willing to accept lesser profits, may be 15 to 20 % less profits are welcome if I can reduce the sujectivity to zero or as less as practicle.
Frankly, I have my set of rules and i stick to them for ONE FULL settlement. I may change them with my expiriece gained and then again stick to them till i change them again. My exercise is to look for even lesser subjectivity in September!! Rules for August are already there and one of them is to exit if I get 150 points run in a single day. I may reenter higher but would be comfy taking away a bit off the table!!! I may change this as and when i start to add positions... i am yet to finalise a rule for it!!! Things for addition are much clearer than before after the recent charts posted by Saint and his explanation about adding!!!!
I am still following exit on close of derivative!!! I reneter only on first day of next settlement. Just becoz I am more comfy with it!!!
I have not yet included the 2 bar exit method in my rules for August trades!!!
So each one for themselves.

In july a trade was almost 600 points in Green, too juicy to leave, I exited on discretion, it wasnt there in the rules!!! I could have been proved wrong had the trade contnued in its direction!!!

Its just my second settlement of trades in 60 minutes flow, though have paper traded for 3 months and even lost in paper trades due to adding the "I" in the trade decisions!!!!! But not any more!!!!

Saint has given us the basic material, fully cooked and ready to eat, we must garnish it as per our taste!!!

All i seek is recipe of different diners (traders)!!!!

Regards

R K Karnani

 

[rkkarnani]

I suggest these criteria for Nifty charts on 60 min. to be counted as vertical :-

1. Atleast 5 bars in te direction of trend without any pivots in between

2. Atleast 7-8% straight move in direction of trend without any pivot in between

3. Huge gap in the direction of trend which already has been running since many days.

Rest there are many experienced people here who can help. May be even Saint would drop in to help

1. Three big bars are good enough, followed by a side ways action......(how big is big is a question remains)
2. Do you realise the 8% in nifty at 4300 amounts to = 344 points!!!!
3. A trend running in our direction for a number of days and then a GAP in the direction of the trade !!! (Well I will jump out...) ... jokes apart, just a gap may not be enough to qualify it for application of 2 bar stop!!!

 

[Prabhjeet]

Ravindra it would be very helpful if the rules that you have put for yourself can be shares with all of us here, I knew from begining that there would be many additions and substractions from the basic rules provided by Saint but had no idea that there are so many different kind of situations that we will have to deal with even after Saint having covered so many details.

It is really nice to have helpful members like Saint, Satya & you sharing your experience here

 

[Prabhjeet]

1. Three big bars are good enough, followed by a side ways action......(how big is big is a question remains)
2. Do you realise the 8% in nifty at 4300 amounts to = 344 points!!!!
3. A trend running in our direction for a number of days and then a GAP in the direction of the trade !!! (Well I will jump out...) ... jokes apart, just a gap may not be enough to qualify it for application of 2 bar stop!!!

1. 7-8% was just a suggestion, we may scale it down to 4-5 % as per our liking, but frankly speaking we need to have a bit stronger guts to have profits, I myself will only use 2 bar stop when we have 5 consecutive bars and moreover I will not be sitting just to shoot the duck, instead I will add at every higher bar and may move my stop to just 1 bar if profit is satisfying.

2. I have not mechanically backtested it but when we have a daily trend change I have noticed moves of even more than 7% on 60 min. and if we keep on trading together I am sure we will be able to see such moves in future

3. If I see a huge gap then I may again like to follow 1 bar stop and 1 bar add method again here.

That is what I think I would do, not sure what others may be thinking

 

[sikandar]

Hi all
what ever methods,saint had given cooked food already.Mind them
regards
sikandar

 

[rkkarnani]

Hi all
what ever methods,saint had given cooked food already.Mind them
regards
sikandar

Sikandar, the fare served by Saint is a bit spicy and too hot to handle, ( trading with over 500 points in hand and not booking profits)....
I like mine only warm and Sweet, hence added Sugar Free!!!!
U like what he has served, u relish it!!!!


Yes friend, agreed what he has given is ready to eat, no two opinions about it!!! And what a serving he has made !!!!!
My feeling is that he has given us what he himself is actually trading!!! And I am sure the rules he tells us to follow evolved over aperiod of time!!! The evolution of trading set up must have had a sea change from what he must have began!!! So today it may not suit everyones temperament!!!! Maybe after a few days weeks or months this as it is may seem fine to me but till then i'll try to adjust as per my mental set up!!!!

Hence the suggestion to change a bit here and there as per comfort level!!!!!!!
Please take this in proper spirit, i am in no way trying to undermine Saint or dispute his set of trading rules....just accept it as 2 bits of a novice trying to meddle a little!!!

 

[trader111]

PS: Trader111 has the 100 odd pgs word document with compilation of AHG thread on ET,
anyone interested can PM him for it, plz don't spam this thread with requests,
and plz don't forget to thank him

Ohh... received 4 PMs as request for the doc

Sorry friends... Sanjay did sent me the doc yesterday... but somehow lost it while was doing some PC maintainance. BTW Sanjay himself has disabled PMs... so I think searching on ET for the doc may help.

 

[uasish]

As i was not following this discussion can you plz update me why we are trying to set rules for 'Vertical Move' ,is it for identifying the 'Exuberence Stage' of an ongoing Trend or for some other reason.