Challenge of Trading crudeM with 4k for 30 trading days!!

[headstrong007]

vijkris & others,,

Use simple MM..
Don't trade with variable capital.. split capital with two part. one required for margin and another part for MTM. U need to refill or stop trading when MTM part becomes zero...
Now ur cap may be 4k or 3k etc but follow that rule.. people trade with 3lots...if faces loss, start trading with 2 lots.. then 1 lots.. u must not be trading with variable capital/lots...i mean max trading cap must be same.. mtm separate..

.....take this as the basic rule....we can compensate our loss easily when trading with fixed cap...refill mtm cap...

I saw here people traded with 200 lots. then after capital diminished with the wrong mm.. trading with 2-3 lots and dreaming of recovering the earlier cap of 200lots.. that not possible...better follow good MM from start..

 

[vijkris]

vijkris , please post the exel sheet you keep records...

yes mujhko bhi do ye excel sheet :lol:

You want the excel sheet file ? i.e dropbox link ?

 

[kumudhan]

yes mujhko bhi do ye excel sheet :lol:

i donno hindi sir....
yes vijkris, to precord my trades...

 

[Tuna]

Hi, this thread is to challenge myself to be disciplined and consistant.

For this I will challenge myself to focus on 1 scrip i.e CrudeOil, irrespective of new highs made in Nifty !!

Next task is to trade only this scrip with rs.4k as capital.

I will keep this challenge for 30 "trading days". Not necessarily consecutive as there are some outside commitments.

There are so many methods and I am yet to decide which method/rules I ll follow.

Will post realtime charts, hope its not against the rules of the forum.

will not post any ledgers/tradebook snapshots as it is childish/signs of arrogance.

Risk mgmt: Well thats the tough part here, as the capital is too low and minimum risk is 10 pts in crudeM, so it comes out as 120 rs including brokerage.
thats 3% per trade.
Margin required is around 2800 per lot, so i will have around 10 consecutive sl hits as the point where further trades cant be taken.

So the challenge will end either at end of 30 trading days or 10 consecutive sl hits.

If i come out in profits, no issues, if i loose this challenge, then max loss should be approx 1200-1400 Rs.

Hopefully thats not a huge amount to gain discipline. !!!

Vijay,
All the best. All I can say 10 points SL for crude is too tight and needs surgical precision. Only way of getting this work (as far as I feel), stop order entry at point of failure of the contra, you will not get time for limit order as algo will kick in. So you need to pre-identify the area where 'in-trend' algo will kick in - not too tough, can be done with some observations.

My Ratios (Like 1 Lakh /1 Lot on NF) for crude is 1 Mini / 10k. SL 16 point, Target (50%) 1.5 R, Rest trail or 2R - TF 30 mins nowadays.

I am sure you are purely focusing on intra here. with this kind of SL, your screen time has to be much higher. But you can focus purely on 4-30, 5-30 PM window. 1 Trade should be enough. As you need some time for home as well.


All the Best.

 

[vijkris]

vijkris & others,,

Use simple MM..
Don't trade with variable capital.. split capital with two part. one required for margin and another part for MTM. U need to refill or stop trading when MTM part becomes zero...
Now ur cap may be 4k or 3k etc but follow that rule.. people trade with 3lots...if faces loss, start trading with 2 lots.. then 1 lots.. u must not be trading with variable capital/lots...i mean max trading cap must be same.. mtm separate..

.....take this as the basic rule....we can compensate our loss easily when trading with fixed cap...refill mtm cap...

I saw here people traded with 200 lots. then after capital diminished with the wrong mm.. trading with 2-3 lots and dreaming of recovering the earlier cap of 200lots.. that not possible...better follow good MM from start..

thanks,
I am great in mathematics, so didn understand how to proceed with it.

If someone explains with example then it will be more helpful.
My present MM depends on sl. so 2 lots if 5 rs sl, greater than 5rs sl one lot only.

1. IF 4k is the amount, each lot i need 1500 rs as margin, for 2 lots 3k.
Present balance is 39xx. So i have 900 rs more buffer before 2 lot orders get rejected by RMS.

So out of 4k capital,splitting it into two parts means, 3k for margin requirement, and balance 1k as MTM. right ?

So if 1k Mtm becomes zero, you are suggesting to refill that 1k , am I correct ?
(Stop trading/changing methods is not an option for me. )

What is the meaning of variable capital/lots ?

Sorry for asking basic Q.

 

[vijkris]

Vijay,
All the best. All I can say 10 points SL for crude is too tight and needs surgical precision. Only way of getting this work (as far as I feel), stop order entry at point of failure of the contra, you will not get time for limit order as algo will kick in. So you need to pre-identify the area where 'in-trend' algo will kick in - not too tough, can be done with some observations.

My Ratios (Like 1 Lakh /1 Lot on NF) for crude is 1 Mini / 10k. SL 16 point, Target (50%) 1.5 R, Rest trail or 2R - TF 30 mins nowadays.

I am sure you are purely focusing on intra here. with this kind of SL, your screen time has to be much higher. But you can focus purely on 4-30, 5-30 PM window. 1 Trade should be enough. As you need some time for home as well.


All the Best.

Thanks, In 1 tf lot of equation changes, in decent trending moves, 5 rs ISL also does not get hit.

So for 10k , 1 mini lot, then 4k is insufficient balance as per your MM.

For entry I am using direct market order or sometimes limit, that too at the bid/ask price so that immediate fill happens.

 

[vijkris]

i donno hindi sir....
yes vijkris, to precord my trades...

He said that he also wants the excel sheet. (Most probably he z kidding).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qnjef14qjtvc3qm/challenge 15may2017.xlsx?dl=0

 

[TraderRavi]

He said that he also wants the excel sheet. (Most probably he z kidding).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qnjef14qjtvc3qm/challenge 15may2017.xlsx?dl=0

downloaded excel, Thank you very much vijji :clap::clapping:

 

[ankur07090]

He said that he also wants the excel sheet. (Most probably he z kidding).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qnjef14qjtvc3qm/challenge 15may2017.xlsx?dl=0

Nice way of maintaining P&L figures in graphical representation. :thumb:

 

[headstrong007]

thanks,
I am great in mathematics, so didn understand how to proceed with it.

If someone explains with example then it will be more helpful.
My present MM depends on sl. so 2 lots if 5 rs sl, greater than 5rs sl one lot only.

1. IF 4k is the amount, each lot i need 1500 rs as margin, for 2 lots 3k.
Present balance is 39xx. So i have 900 rs more buffer before 2 lot orders get rejected by RMS.

So out of 4k capital,splitting it into two parts means, 3k for margin requirement, and balance 1k as MTM. right ?

So if 1k Mtm becomes zero, you are suggesting to refill that 1k , am I correct ?
(Stop trading/changing methods is not an option for me. )

What is the meaning of variable capital/lots ?

Sorry for asking basic Q.

Yes u r mostly correct...first set max lot u want to trade say 2. So rule is u'll try to mostly with 2 lots.. not 1 lot..bcoz if u make a loss with 2 lot, then trade with 1 lot, u need to double ur profit to break even now.

For max 2 lot.. u can trade 1, keep rest 1 lot in hand for averaging if required(or u see higher risk so trading with 50% thats ok)

Margin for that maximum 2 lot is 3000 for MIS.
Now, u have 900 as mtm. For 2 lot 900 means 45pt. So keeping 1pt for brokerage..4 consecutive loss of just 10pt can diminish ur mtm.. After that, u need to trade with 1lot..hence double profit to break even prev loss..its double hard now...don't fall into the trap..

Roughly calculate at any time how much consecutive loss possible with your system...after that u need to refill.. but min that buffer required to stay in the race.. is not it?

IF u keep the buffer for 20 loss, that is pretty safe for a refill. so if ur sl is 5pt (although 5 pt is too close for crude IMO, but u may be scalper, may ur tf 1m.. etc etc I don't want to go inside the system..).... anyway for 5pt SL and 1pt brokerage.. 6 pt for 20 trades so min 120pt per lot.. so for 2 lot min buffer size is 2400. 900 is too low..
If ur sl is 10pt for 2 lot then buffer size is 4800... which is more reasonable.
so min cap for 5 pt sl is 6400. with 10pt sl 7800..

so, u r trading with an insufficient buffer...as u r loosing 400+ in a day on 3000 margins, u need bigger buffer according to ur style.. at least 4800..or even little more...
according to ur aggressive style ideally u need 8000 buffer on 3000 margins..means 11k for 2 lot mini.. means 400 pt a day loss for consecutive 20 days b4 buffer burnt out...enough...for any good intraday system...

ur r on the safer side of MM when u count max loss of day as one trade. 20 trades buffer...most good system sustained with that mm... my own tested MM... and... when any system failed with such high protection buffer... chances it is incompetent.. time to change/modify it..

Crude is very volatile..Ideal sl for crude is at least 10-20pt if u using 5 min or more..imo.. there are sudden spikes...