upstox stole my 20,000

[chaku101]

Write to them now, so that they read it the first thing in the morning.

If you don't receive satisfactory communication by noon, escalate it.

There was a similar problem with another broker on March 13, and 90% of my account was wiped out. I filed a complaint the same day by noon. The matter was resolved on March 23.

Go through it.

http://www.traderji.com/community/threads/zerodha-part-3.89121/page-1624#post-1274708

Software issues happen, what we need is proper resolution of the issue.

i have written everything and mailed them immediately. Thanks everyone for supporting me. Looking forward to their reply now.

 

[msdtime]

Dear chaku101,
This has happened to me earlier.
But with very less quantity.
Thus us what happened to me and I am sure must have happened with you.
1. This is a bug in pro.upstox.
2. What happened was that when you placed oco order, it showed in order, trade and position book.
3. When your tar/sl hit, the leg order got executed while other was cancelled.
4. But that didn't, get updated in your books. So the order and trade book had no completed and canceled leg orders and position book still had open position.
5. You thought you still had open order and position.
6. So you manually tried to square off the position. ie you manually sold it.
7. But even after giving manual orders one after the other still nothing changed in position book, mtm continued to increase with apparent open position.
8. But what happened I'm reality was that you created new short positions, which wasn't reflected in pro.upstox.


Had you refreshed the web page before manual intervention, this problem wouldn't, have happened.

 

[newtrader101]

I have a record of emails. I wrote the support team on same day. And made calls too. They trasnferred my call to different department and ultimately disconnecting the call. Support @ email said that i have taken delivery position blah blah didn't even try to look into problem i was facing and told me to wait till I get contract notes and in the meantime I had already mtm of -90000 at the end of the day.

NO they didn't try to explain or solve through my email. I got a call just today evening.
Thanks for your help. I will write them in an email.

Now on, insist every communication has to be in email. All execs are expert glib talkers. You stand firm. Look at this: http://www.traderji.com/community/threads/zerodha-part-3.89121/post-1274546

 

[chaku101]

Dear chaku101,
This has happened to me earlier.
But with very less quantity.
Thus us what happened to me and I am sure must have happened with you.
1. This is a bug in pro.upstox.
2. What happened was that when you placed oco order, it showed in order, trade and position book.
3. When your tar/sl hit, the leg order got executed while other was cancelled.
4. But that didn't, get updated in your books. So the order and trade book had no completed and canceled leg orders and position book still had open position.
5. You thought you still had open order and position.
6. So you manually tried to square off the position. ie you manually sold it.
7. But even after giving manual orders one after the other still nothing changed in position book, mtm continued to increase with apparent open position.
8. But what happened I'm reality was that you created new short positions, which wasn't reflected in pro.upstox.


Had you refreshed the web page before manual intervention, this problem wouldn't, have happened.

I manually tried to square off the position but the order book said " there is no open orders" so there is nothing that I manually did after my initial OCO buy order of 3000 quantity

 

[msdtime]

Okey,
I read the whole thread and it seems that what I mentioned above doesn't happen to you.
But few people here have questioned the logic behind this.

What volatility has to do with SL and TGT and how both SL TGT can be hit in one tick? It

Let me share what I know.
1. BO OCO has been a bane to many brokers and traders.
2. Most experienced traders never use it. So most trades in BO are by novices.
3. Also such people tend to trade in highly volatile stocks.
4. Certainly high volatility only has all to do with this problem.
5. Also trades keep very tight SL and TGT, so close to LTP.
6. We all know that exchanges generate 100s of ticks per seconds and not all are transmitted to brokers. Brokers receive just 2-3 ticks per second.
7. Point to note is that during high volatile period mostly fool amateurs trade and they put in such wild orders and with such aggression that ticks move violently .
8. What happen is that, there is high chance that during such period the ticks of both SL and target prices are both present in that 100 ticks of that particular second.
9. Assume that there are only 109 ticks in that 1 second. And the 35th being target price tick. Your target order gets executed..
10. Now your sl order must get cancelled. But before that could happen, the tick representing the sl reaches and sl order also gets executed.
Time required to cancle order in mini seconds > time taken by those 2 ticks to execute in micro seconds.

Hence yes volatility causes this issue.

This gas been explained in much details by arrogant broker N on tradingqna

 

[chaku101]

Okey,
I read the whole thread and it seems that what I mentioned above doesn't happen to you.
But few people here have questioned the logic behind this.



Let me share what I know.
1. BO OCO has been a bane to many brokers and traders.
2. Most experienced traders never use it. So most trades in BO are by novices.
3. Also such people tend to trade in highly volatile stocks.
4. Certainly high volatility only has all to do with this problem.
5. Also trades keep very tight SL and TGT, so close to LTP.
6. We all know that exchanges generate 100s of ticks per seconds and not all are transmitted to brokers. Brokers receive just 2-3 ticks per second.
7. Point to note is that during high volatile period mostly fool amateurs trade and they put in such wild orders and with such aggression that ticks move violently .
8. What happen is that, there is high chance that during such period the ticks of both SL and target prices are both present in that 100 ticks of that particular second.
9. Assume that there are only 109 ticks in that 1 second. And the 35th being target price tick. Your target order gets executed..
10. Now your sl order must get cancelled. But before that could happen, the tick representing the sl reaches and sl order also gets executed.
Time required to cancle order in mini seconds > time taken by those 2 ticks to execute in micro seconds.

Hence yes volatility causes this issue.

This gas been explained in much details by arrogant broker N on tradingqna

But my sl was triggered first and then target was triggered after about a minute. Even so if both sl and target were triggered due to volatility, and as I was seeing that the trade was stil showing in my position tab, I didn't have an option to manually square off the position with whatever loss i face. Also the support and email team didn't help or square off the position on my behalf. They didn't even listen to my issue and told me to wait till end of the day till I get my contract notes.

 

[timepass]

But my sl was triggered first and then target was triggered after about a minute. Even so if both sl and target were triggered due to volatility, and as I was seeing that the trade was stil showing in my position tab, I didn't have an option to manually square off the position with whatever loss i face. Also the support and email team didn't help or square off the position on my behalf. They didn't even listen to my issue and told me to wait till end of the day till I get my contract notes.

They are supposed to have record of all the phone calls too. So, if the call came from the official phone, they have a record of it. If it came from some other number, it doesn't count.

 

[mohan.sic]

I was watching the chart very closely, first my order was triggered then stock went little down, if this is when my sl had hit my order should have been close right there then stock went up again and my target hit and never came down. I just went throught the chart again and this is what has happened -
View attachment 25196
This is a one minute chart and my buy order triggered @ 135.2 and i had stop loss of 1.3 so according to chart my stop loss is hit @ 133.8 so my order should have closed right there. But the upstox person claimed that due to the volatility of so little gap between the orders both sl and target were triggered. But if we look at the chart there seems 1-2 minute difference in when both sl and target were triggered. I am okay with the explanation that due to huge volatility both my sl and target were triggered at the same time. But i still need answers on this -
1. I was not able to manually square off the excess order.
2. I lost more than what i have in my fund.
3. If they stock is extremely volatile they should already ban it from trading preventing cases like mine. I am not going to keep 10% sl for .3% target.
4. I called the support team on the same day but I didn't get any help and the position was stil there til end of the day leading me to a loss of -90000

So yeah you are right It's not my mistake at all and I should get my money back and I will hold on to my case.

Dear,

Stop analyzing this 1 minute chart. Some times you cant identify/notice the move even on tick charts.
Why broker has allowed bracket order on such stock is not our business
Don't even think why you are not able to manually square off the excess order - Why should you square off a trade which is excessively triggered by their application. Its not your headache.

* There is a gap of 30 seconds between the sl order execution and profit order execution. When sl was triggered, why profit order quantity was not adjusted accordingly in this gap of 30 seconds ( 30 sec is enough time ). So the point of double order execution due to volatility is nonsense and unacceptable. There is decent enough time in between to cancel/adjust the orders. Escalate this point. Demand explanation on this.

Don't waste time at their first level customer service desk. They cant understand this issue. Draft a clear mail and escalate to next level asap.

 

[chaku101]

Dear,

Stop analyzing this 1 minute chart. Some times you cant identify/notice the move even on tick charts.
Why broker has allowed bracket order on such stock is not our business
Don't even think why you are not able to manually square off the excess order - Why should you square off a trade which is excessively triggered by their application. Its not your headache.

* There is a gap of 30 seconds between the sl order execution and profit order execution. When sl was triggered, why profit order quantity was not adjusted accordingly in this gap of 30 seconds ( 30 sec is enough time ). So the point of double order execution due to volatility is nonsense and unacceptable. There is decent enough time in between to cancel/adjust the orders. Escalate this point. Demand explanation on this.

Don't waste time at their first level customer service desk. They cant understand this issue. Draft a clear mail and escalate to next level asap.

Thanks for your reply, I have mailed them with all my points and I am awaiting their reply.

 

[chaku101]

They are supposed to have record of all the phone calls too. So, if the call came from the official phone, they have a record of it. If it came from some other number, it doesn't count.

I got reply 10 minutes ago and they have sent me the same bot email copy that they already sent me yesterday.

"Dear Chandrakant,


Thank you for writing to us.

Sorry for the inconvenience caused to you.

The overall attempt to create our very own software was that we could provide flexibility to a user in terms of the things he needs.

We understand your concern that you are facing this issue for a long time.

We are trying our best to improve our application. We are really sorry this is taking too long.

We would not even attempt to explain the reasons leading to this unpleasant experience with the software. However, what I can definitely assure you is that we will do all it takes to make your experience positive in future.

We have noted them all. Do let us know what all things you would expect on a platform other than this. This will help us to analyze during our roadmap discussions.

Hence, I have shared your feedback with all the concerned team so that we can improvise and provide the customer experience you are looking at."