Lost 1 Lac in mcx , need startegy

[vinayshah]

............
If you dont try to maintain all this how much you put you will loose one day even having good knowledge and skills.Bookish knowledge never works develop some sixth sense too.
Most of trader die only because of greed, fear, revenge trading or ego trading. Do planned trading. I dont say you dont take risk but see how much chance you get out if you stuck. ....

> absolutely .. Bookish knowledge never works ..not in market atleast

 

[vinayshah]

.......
Coming to the strategy part. Since you have tried everything. Let me tell you something that you may or may not agree, but we traders have make our own way. So please read the below section very carefully, it can save many years of frustration/pain.

Any strategy that you execute on intraday timeframe is gambling. It's pure gambling. Why? because smart money uses higher TF i.e daily or more to drive the markets.

if you want to build an edge, you MUST first start from the daily and use lower TF for entry/exit if you're a day trader.

I cannot give you or tell you exactly how you can day trade using daily charts, but from you post you have all the knowledge to figure it out.

your best chance is to use pure price action on the daily to gauge the bias/direction/sentiments and then figure out entry/exits on intraday TFs. if you can manage to do this, you will get ahead and have some hope to make it out your current mess.

I wish you good luck in this maze and hope you come out of it. :thumb:

throwawayacc123 ......YES may be i never went deep into higher TF ... i mean i made strategies only on a single time frame ... its been only a few days that i was looking to analyze Higher TF and trade the lower ..its not that i dint knew (reading market books) ...but i never gave a shot to correlate 2 TF ..and now YOU spoke about this .. will Now adjust myself by higher TF .. though not changing my strategy .. Thank You

 

[vinayshah]

I am also in the same boat as you and mainly failed because of over trading.

My learnings are:
- Either technicals or fundamentals, market gives oppertunities.
- Make a plan & stick to plan. Every plan takes certain amount of time to complete. By hurrying and worrying the plan won't execute faster.
- There are unknowns and we cannot deal with them directly because they are unknowns.
- Verify & re-verify the plan and give it sufficient time, it wont be months but years.
- Every trade you should have some target in mind - either by fundamentals or technicals. Check for possible resistances and supports - or just fixed possible %.

This is my biggest learning for regular earning -
- When I say fixed possible % - it means every trading instrument will have certain type of participants, they behave certain way. Including the big & small traders. When we stick to one instrument, after a while we can figure out how the participants are moving it. So, you can anticipate the moves in an instrument if you can stick long enough with it.

- Black swan event happen, but they are rare. It doesn't mean one can put 100% of the funds in a trade.


Here are my mistakes if you are interested:
- Commodity fundamentals Mistakes
a) Very difficult to find the details. If one can find a website/blog that they can follow it would be good. In my case I tried, I could not find something that I could relate to easily. I could not relate because I dont know the businesses most probably.
b) Instead of sticking to one commodity, I traded in every commodity available and lost everywhere. I have situations where my 1 lac became 2 lacs (the great silver) in 1 trade, in next trade it became 1 lac again.
- CrudeOil
- Copper
- Natural Gas

- Money management
a) 5 times margin by index is very tempting. I ended up putting every paisa I have to maximize the gains.
b) Sometimes I used MIS margin too. That makes it 10 times. I use to close the position in loss by 11:30, sometimes huge losses.
c) Then I made a plan, that I will trade to get some 5% in every trade, and keep quite for that day.
I pulled out 5% gains many times. But impossible to sit tight doing nothing after making that profit, so in next 4 to 5 trades I used to lose 15 to 50%.

Hi mravi .. Thanks for explanation .. in commodities i dint trade other than cruedmini .. i am comfortable with this only ..

2 ] not a fundamental guy.. pure technical..

3] After so much of trading (because i only traded low number of shares ) and losses (1lac) .. now i am scared to even pull the trade trigger .. this didnt happen to me early .. but now its creeping . Now i trade with scared fingers which I know is a bad thing but cant get over it .

 

[vinayshah]

it is crime to trade on another's money including your dad.
no technical or fundamental stuff work consistently.
imagine that the exchange can see all your unfilled trades and will hit your stop loss and then move in your trade direction.
think that you will have to win your every trade but you are allowed to enter 2 more trades before making a net profit .
you are young get life and do some other profession....

Yes pannet1 you may be true ..but i am in such a dilemma that to leave it or not .

 

[vinayshah]

1. Intraday trader need not be profitable everyday. Being net profitable per quarter is good enough to be called a "winner".
BTW please don't generalize that all are loosers here.

2. A real trader is not a gambler. U should spend more time in the forum to meet real traders. May be u met only gamblers.

3. Request u to start a new thread and tech us about long term investing.

yes absolutely .. not to hurt any one here but even long term investing can become a gamble if day trading is considered gamble ..who said investing long term will money ? what if crisis happen and company shuts down tomorrow .? nothing is pre written .. anything can happen ... and i would also be very interested if u can teach to grow 10000 to 1cr may be ..but in how many years ? thats the gambling question :thumb:


PS : there are notified day traders who have made money .. on consistent basis .. calling it gambling will lose its meaning here .. !!

 

[vinayshah]

If you are trading Nifty futures, the initial stop loss is 60 points away from entry level. In case of Gaps against entry the stop is jumped by another 150 points. No jokes with such stops. Thats how most of earning traders keep their stops to avoid volatility swings.

It so happens that our initial stop is either hit or jumped by a huge margin.

Even if we consider stop loss 60 points, we loose Rs.4500 in a single trade. If the stop is jumped by Gaps we may loose somewhere 200 points ie Rs.15000.

All of the Money Management rules shout that we should not risk more than 1% of our capital in any single trade.

To withstand Rs.15000 loss in a single trade, you should have a capital base of Rs.1500000.

How many traders are trading with Rs.15 lakhs for 1 lot of Nifty.

I see here people trading 4 lots with Rs.1 lakh capital. If 60 points stop is considered, then Rs.18000 is lost in one SL hit. That is 18% loss. If any body is risking 18% on a single trade, who is going to save him.

No need for advices. Just take out your past trades and see how much percentage of capital you have lost on each trade. You will understand where the problem lies.

hi suriji .. i dont trade futures but understood what u want 2 say !!!

 

[vinayshah]

Hi,
@Thread Starter,

............
1. Just forget actual trading for some days, enjoy the life, calm yourself.

2. Try to learn money management.
..

In fact I would encourage you to show your past money management plans. There are so many members who can advise you. and before starting trading discuss your future money management.

I wish you to be a winning trader.
(but please just forget the haste.
:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

HI mark8tune ... nice name first of all :clap: ... yea may be forget trading for a while and then be back ..

2] MM posted earlier .
Thanks

 

[vinayshah]

There are 3 keys to trade commodity.

1) Commodity is not equity, do not hold your position for long, it is like pendulum, move in and move out fast.
2) SL and trend are your friends.
3) Trade as if there is no leverage, and you will be good.

Good thought sir

 

[mark8tune]

HI mark8tune ... nice name first of all :clap: ... yea may be forget trading for a while and then be back ..

2] MM posted earlier .
Thanks

As I can see

1. You used very less amount from your ledger. That's a good sign. (I guess only because of this you stayed so long.)

2. You have good experience of trading or seeing the market.

3. You know and understand several things.

I think I need not doubt your mm.
SUGGESTIONS from my side would be :-

1. Find a good strategy which suits you and your scrip.

2. Backtest the strategy so much that you start believing it.

3. After 1 or 2 losses do not start doubting your strategy or change the plan.

4 On every entry or exit consider you are following your strategy or plan( coz you would have already checked the strategy enough.)

5 Keep calm and believe in you that you can.

Happy trading

 

[TracerBullet]

HI tracer Bullet .. my trading since 2yrs ..

1) traded only 1000 shares initially .. but having loss upto 30000. made a cutdown . so basically have been trading 100 - 200 shares since 1 year

2)Try to practise bar by bar on old data .. mean manual backtesting right ? ..
I have done it already ... I gained that paper trading and live is totally different .. I want clarification in strategy ... i mean if suppose 9ema crosses 21ema upward .. should i buy ? ofcourse the theory says that .. when i dont play it my analysis goes correct ... but if I play it then it moves up a little and then reverses .. Always happening to me .. SHould I add another indicator ? BTW not a great fan of any indicators other than Moving Average , SR and Simple VWAP (not its deviation ) after 3 years of market research .. Market profiles good (didnt gave a try though) but dont have ninja and MP plugins also are very costly..

If you have already done extensive practice on bar-by-bar and paper trading and have been successful in it, you should already have clear idea of your trading plan.
It does not seem that is the case, Yes trading live has more challenges but unless we are consistently profitable on replay / paper / small size, we will not be profitable on bigger size.

I guess you may not be tracking your results properly. Make an excel, enter every trade and calculate its result including expenses etc. Check your overall progress and expectancy.
Take 20-50-100+ trades on it with your plan on very small size and then see if you are indeed profitable. Advantage of bar replay is that you can do this faster. Once you are successful here, then you can move to proper size.

1] Absolutley correct vijkris !! .. Its big depressive point for me ..
2] for 10k i would expect to make atleast 500 a day if leverage is considered .

You are going to blow 10 k too. Your expectation is a delusion - you expect to make 5 % a day ? Making that much in a month is a decent return. Leverage can kill too.

Take a Pause, get your expectations right, prove yourself over large number of trades using bar replay and single digit stocks.
Even when we have done our homework and our trading for real money, we should probably risk 1-2% of our capital on each trade. But when learning, probably risk much less.
Dont think about recovering your money. Learn to trade properly and only then risk real money. You will need capital as well. Dont expect to magically turn small money big.

There are many ways people trade, i dont know what will stick with you.
Two Things you can start with
1) Go through Pivot Trading thread from Subhadip. It gives nice market structure and way to understand trends.
2) Maybe read book from Adam Grimes. He also has a good blog and a free trading course.

There are other stuff too, above is what i like and hopefully will be able to trade in future.