General Trading Chat

[Fundootrader]

All analysts appearing on TV are not bad or unsuccessful.Some of them are really doing good job.

Some are bad but they have created some image for them and people without checking their track record go to them in blind faith that they will bring riches to these investors.And after loosing money,the investor blames his bad luck,bad market,market operators,FIIs,Automated trading and what have you for their misfortune and there are enough number of such people who keep the bad guys or cheats in business.

There are some good analysts too who come on TV and are hugely successful.Sudarshan Sukhani,Ramdeo Agrawal,Deven Choksey are some of the good and successful analysts.

But losing traders out of jealousy and frustrations blame all the analysts appearing on TV but they don't pause and think whether they made a mistake in following them bliendly in wishful thinking and without checking their track record and success rate.

In 2014 wealth creation study Ramdeo Agrawal gave research on 5 scrips and they gave a combined return of 110% in a dull 2015 market.This is just an example of good and solid research.

Smart_trade

I think Sukhani is different league - not comparable to likes of Ramdeo/Deven

 

[newuser_RK]

Deven C is OK types but Ramdeo is good....

 

[nitingosavi]

so ..
what is ur trade decision method?
ultimately whom to follow? yourself/ a Trader or an Analyst ?
What to follow ? TA or FA ? TV channels/ some call giving service or own decision (with or without knowledge)?
This discussion is useless. Follow yourself.
Yourself = whom to follow ? what to follow ? your profit/ loss will teach you.
These markets never gives you any guidelines without losses.
tech analysts/ fundamental analysts/ TA / FA / Pivots / Price action / Indicators or any other methods.... did they worked for you/us always ? no, not! Its all science of probability .
ultimately... its probability.
And PROBABILITY... in stock prices never exists (in particular stock) for some persons/ a group of persons and their interests , because they already knows the facts.
a method can work for one and wont work for another.
Gann was a Trader. Buffet is a Investor. two legendary names with two diff methods.
A pro trader can also have streak of loosing trades. which can cost him his whole capital. a investor might had to wait for his life time for stocks to appreciate.
There is nothing certain. otherwise forums like Our TJ / business TV channels might have never existed !
Dou you really think those TV analyst never have a long or short position in stock he/she analyse ?
This is a uncertain area... only the persons with good marketing skills can sell their views / skills ! and who can sell views/skills .. can create a group of followers.. whom he/she can easily exploit, whenever needed.
Rest all depends on your own decision. your Risk digestion capacity. your holding capacity. May be investing is better than trading.

May be Analysts are failed traders who couldn't manage risks and good marketing skills.
who will not like to earn for himself than working for others.

 

[Fundootrader]

so ..
what is ur trade decision method?
ultimately whom to follow? yourself/ a Trader or an Analyst ?
What to follow ? TA or FA ? TV channels/ some call giving service or own decision (with or without knowledge)?
This discussion is useless. Follow yourself.
Yourself = whom to follow ? what to follow ? your profit/ loss will teach you.
These markets never gives you any guidelines without losses.
tech analysts/ fundamental analysts/ TA / FA / Pivots / Price action / Indicators or any other methods.... did they worked for you/us always ? no, not! Its all science of probability .
ultimately... its probability.
And PROBABILITY... in stock prices never exists (in particular stock) for some persons/ a group of persons and their interests , because they already knows the facts.
a method can work for one and wont work for another.
Gann was a Trader. Buffet is a Investor. two legendary names with two diff methods.
A pro trader can also have streak of loosing trades. which can cost him his whole capital. a investor might had to wait for his life time for stocks to appreciate.
There is nothing certain. otherwise forums like Our TJ / business TV channels might have never existed !
Dou you really think those TV analyst never have a long or short position in stock he/she analyse ?
This is a uncertain area... only the persons with good marketing skills can sell their views / skills ! and who can sell views/skills .. can create a group of followers.. whom he/she can easily exploit, whenever needed.
Rest all depends on your own decision. your Risk digestion capacity. your holding capacity. May be investing is better than trading.

May be Analysts are failed traders who couldn't manage risks and good marketing skills.
who will not like to earn for himself than working for others.

Absolutely right - Follow yourself

But one can definetly use the inputs from the TA/FA on TV's/media - to gather ideas

Buying/Selling purely coz someone is recommending is suicidal - but if one can develop even basic knowledge of looking @ charts - and for starters (till you can start using Amibroker's) one can look at ideas shared - but be your own master - pass those ideas through your view of charts and buy/sell accordingly

 

[wisp]

VJAY

Bro, where are you? Please come back to TJ and share your wisdom

 

[wisp]

All analysts appearing on TV are not bad or unsuccessful.Some of them are really doing good job.

Some are bad but they have created some image for them and people without checking their track record go to them in blind faith that they will bring riches to these investors.And after loosing money,the investor blames his bad luck,bad market,market operators,FIIs,Automated trading and what have you for their misfortune and there are enough number of such people who keep the bad guys or cheats in business.

There are some good analysts too who come on TV and are hugely successful.Sudarshan Sukhani,Ramdeo Agrawal,Deven Choksey are some of the good and successful analysts.

But losing traders out of jealousy and frustrations blame all the analysts appearing on TV but they don't pause and think whether they made a mistake in following them bliendly in wishful thinking and without checking their track record and success rate.

In 2014 wealth creation study Ramdeo Agrawal gave research on 5 scrips and they gave a combined return of 110% in a dull 2015 market.This is just an example of good and solid research.

Smart_trade

Da, what changed your mind about Sukhani and/or analysts in general? IF we are trading PA, what value do TV analysts add? We would be taking the trade based on PA, so trying to understand the thought process when TV analysts views are included...thanks for your help.

 

[amitrandive]

These kinds of allegations will always happen till the people realize that analyzing and trading are two different skills which need different psychologies. Some people may be adept in both the skills, some in either, most in neither

Please read this beautiful article

Analyst Vs Trader

http://www.traderji.com/technical-a...high-probability-breakouts-2.html#post1124809

 

[Smart_trade]

Da, what changed your mind about Sukhani and/or analysts in general? IF we are trading PA, what value do TV analysts add? We would be taking the trade based on PA, so trying to understand the thought process when TV analysts views are included...thanks for your help.

Nothing changed my views about Sukhani or any other analyst.I was never biased against all TV analysts and commentators.I have been listening to Sukhani for almost over 2 years and I find him better analyst and honest analyst.l trade on my system and many times I hold opposite views but I respect his views as they are based on sound logic and trading practices.Also he does not cheat and he accepts when he is wrong or when he does not understand the markets. I am not a subscriber of any analyst service or newsletter.

Markets don't function in isolation.Business and economic conditions affect the markets and a good trader always is well informed about what is happening around him.Though we trade on PA ,reading of newspaper,business magazines,TV news,political news help us in trading better.

Also when one accumulates sizeable capital,then comes the need of multiplying that by investing.We cannot possibly think of trading nifty all through our lives .Here the fundamental research helps as in the long run the stock price goes up as per the earning growth.So we have to put our extra money to work and multiply faster.

I always enjoy taking a good trade and managing it well .Ialso find the same enjoyment when I catch a growth stock based on research and analysis and see it grow in market capitalisation.It is a satisfaction of doing something right and getting paid for the efforts .

I enjoy both trading and investing and hence I am into both these modes as both have their place in trader's career span.

Smart_trade

 

[Strategist]

ST Sir

One question...... About these analysts....

If these so called TA like Sukhani, Gujral, are not successful how they are surviving in market.

Somewhere in traderji thread, Gujral PMS is said useless.But still he is working..?

Who backs them?

Every TV analyst has a godfather who ensures that they stay for their own reasons. As long as the godfather is there the analyst will also be there. No analyst will ever show their profit and loss statement.
Customers who lose will leave and be replaced with new customers.

The purpose of going on TV is to get credibility WITHOUT PROOF of ability.
On a smaller scale, in all trading forums there are losing traders who try to create credibility by bringing along a group of chamchas.


Stockmarket rule no.1 -- Believe NOBODY
Do background checks, verify their results.

According to the 80/20 law which is 95/5 for the stock market
If NSE has 2200 stocks, for every stock that goes up by 200% there are 30 that go sideways or go down by 40%.
If 5% of gurus are profitable, logically 5% of PMS are profitable.

He gets paid heftilly on channels, even Sukhani

You want to know what they get?

You will be shocked

Sukhani is paid 7 lacs per month for his appearance on cnbc......... Any guess on gujral?

19 lacs per month from ET now .............. You read it right.

Just for their views and appearance

Remuneration paid to analysts is between 10 to 15 lakhs per annum. Fund managers get 30 to 150 lakhs per annum with performance bonus.

Source - 2 minutes to google from financial newspapers economic times and business standard.

 

[wisp]

Nothing changed my views about Sukhani or any other analyst.I was never biased against all TV analysts and commentators.I have been listening to Sukhani for almost over 2 years and I find him better analyst and honest analyst.l trade on my system and many times I hold opposite views but I respect his views as they are based on sound logic and trading practices.Also he does not cheat and he accepts when he is wrong or when he does not understand the markets. I am not a subscriber of any analyst service or newsletter.

Markets don't function in isolation.Business and economic conditions affect the markets and a good trader always is well informed about what is happening around him.Though we trade on PA ,reading of newspaper,business magazines,TV news,political news help us in trading better.

Also when one accumulates sizeable capital,then comes the need of multiplying that by investing.We cannot possibly think of trading nifty all through our lives .Here the fundamental research helps as in the long run the stock price goes up as per the earning growth.So we have to put our extra money to work and multiply faster.

I always enjoy taking a good trade and managing it well .Ialso find the same enjoyment when I catch a growth stock based on research and analysis and see it grow in market capitalisation.It is a satisfaction of doing something right and getting paid for the efforts .

I enjoy both trading and investing and hence I am into both these modes as both have their place in trader's career span.

Smart_trade

Da,
THanks a lot. So this means we stick to PA for daytrading and for investing use PA along with research, analysts, etc., Is my understanding of your post correct?