My View on Market and Economy : Debarghya Mukherjee

Bigbear

Well-Known Member
#41
VALUE INVESTING LOST VALUE?

Somebody told me that "Debarghya, you are not the second richest person in this earth. You can not make comments on Buffets style." He replied me 4 months ago. Because I said "Days has changed. Buffet system is not suitable in this market situation. As we all knows that "Nobody believes you till your hairs are not white and your father and his father is not in this business blah blah blah". Now look at the story of our own Mr. Rakesh Jhunjhunwala

Ace investor Rakesh Jhunjhunwala, who has often been referred to as Indias Warren Buffett, seems to be distancing himself a bit from his mentors investment philosophy.

At a recent discussion organised by Motilal Oswal Securities, Jhunjhunwala partially debunked Buffetts very long-term approach to investing, where he almost holds stocks for life.

Every stock in life doesnt have to be bought for 40 years. All of us cannot be Mr Warren Buffett in life, let me tell you. Just because he thinks that every stock should be bought for life does not mean that we should also buy every stock for life, Jhunjhunwala said. The edited transcript of the discussion can be found at DNA newspapers website (See here).
At the time time of Buffets our market structure was not as complex as it is now. Many bulls and bears are here. More and more information are avialble to us ( even though we all have doubt on RATE and Index available to us). How same way market can move?

Jhunjhunwala, who has taken serious hits to his portfolio in the current market scenario, is clearly revising his investing approach.
I think he was bear at time of "Harsh Meheta"

Of course, there can be serious doubt as to whether even Warren Buffett adheres to his past style of investing. As Firstpost noted last month, Buffett has broken some of his own taboos, including avoiding technology shares and debunking share buybacks. This year, he bought IBM shares and Berkshire Hathaway announced a plan to buy back its own shares.
At the investment jaw-jaw session, where investment gurus Raamdeo Agrawal of Motilal Oswal, Madhusudan Kela and Ramesh Damani engaged Jhunjhunwala, the latter gave a new spin to Buffetts idea of value-investing: Value investing is also buying a stock, keeping it for 12-18 months and selling it at a handsome rate. Value investing is buying value where it may not (always) be lasting value. That value could be encashed over two or three years.


One is not sure if Raamdeo Agrawal, another Buffett fan, agreed with Jhunjhunwalas revisionist ideas on value investing, but he seemed to like the idea of blue-chip investing. Said Agrawal about his investing strategy in this beaten-down market: I am aligning (myself) more to buy more blue-chips or emerging blue-chips. I look at individual companies rather than sectors and look at their performance. I dont buy 10-15 companies in a year. If I can add one or two companies in a year, thats good enough.

Kela seemed more gung-ho about mid-cap stocks, which have simply been thrashed out of shape in the current bear market. Kela also thinks the real value of the NSE Nifty index is far lower than its current level because only 15-25 companiesare making this index. His preference is for mid-cap stocks, which will deliver huge returns over the long-term.

As for the impact of the rupee, Jhunjhunwala, who once saw himself as a rupee bull, is now unsure. He thinks there is a 75 percent chance that the rupee will lose more against the dollar a prediction that has already come true, as the rupee fell below Rs 53 on Tuesday.

Will the cheaper rupee bring in more dollar flows from foreign investors? Raamdeo Agrawal does not think so, because investors are still sitting on huge losses in India. I dont think it works. In fact, the guys who are there (in India) are going through their own pain after losing 35-40 percent of the years opening balance (due to the rupee fall). So, first that pain has to be handled.
IMO , value investing still works & timings of investment is of utmost importance..

And one more opinion of mine is , none of the foreign investors or oil companies are at loss because of Rupee depreciation BECAUSE everyone is hedged... When they are in such big business, They show losses on paper, But behind the scenes , they are hedged and are making profit.
 

NTrader42

Well-Known Member
#42
IMO , value investing still works & timings of investment is of utmost importance..

And one more opinion of mine is , none of the foreign investors or oil companies are at loss because of Rupee depreciation BECAUSE everyone is hedged... When they are in such big business, They show losses on paper, But behind the scenes , they are hedged and are making profit.
Hi

The stories say there is a flight of capital and that's the reason for rupee depreciating, so it would seem the FIIs are selling equity at lowest valuation and buying $ assets and highest valuation . . .

Logic says a strong $ and low valuations will help foreign investors (and re-routed political moneys) when they have to buy, so pushing markets lower and $ higher is in interest of FIIs and HNIs when they want to buy . . .

And the scary stories, well we all love good stories :)

Its always the same just the stories about the end of the world change


Thanks
 

Bigbear

Well-Known Member
#43
Hi

The stories say there is a flight of capital and that's the reason for rupee depreciating, so it would seem the FIIs are selling equity at lowest valuation and buying $ assets and highest valuation . . .

By Logic,
All major world currencies are depreciating against dollar Because Dollar is appreciating..
That's the reason even Rupee is depreciating, because dollar is appreciating.
But we do not know if FII's are selling equity or not. Nse/Bse website is not showing "significant" outflow when compared to inflow. May be the information is not given to public yet.. ......

Logic says a strong $ and low valuations will help foreign investors (and re-routed political moneys) when they have to buy, so pushing markets lower and $ higher is in interest of FIIs and HNIs when they want to buy . . .
.

All these bad news, Bad IIP, Bad GDP, Strong $ .. FII & HNI's are buying.. and they want to keep the retailers out.

If it were to be a start of bear market, We should be hearing good news from tv "analysts".
But since i am not sure, i am just a silent observer with no positions in market :) ....:D:D


And the scary stories, well we all love good stories :)

I love these stories.. especially the scary ones... Shows what all people do for greed!


Its always the same just the stories about the end of the world change

Truth


Thanks
...........
 

NTrader42

Well-Known Member
#44
Hi

I am actually not very knowledgeable about IIP, GDP, and whatever acronyms are out there . . . but i believe from personal experience the information being put out there (the stories) are highly manipulated. Neither do I have the capability to extract meaningful knowledge from the data being put out, be it earning, performance or macro-economics.

What we can understand easily is the price and the fact that ghost stories have started appearing in the mainstream media. For the investment portfolio this looks a good time to start arranging for funds and be ready for buying.

Buy on the days of panic sale or when the volatility dies out. We can never time the exact bottom, as long as we do better than the SIP averages of the Janta we should consider out timing efforts to be successful.

Thanks
 
#45
They are making money but bleeding more I guess.

IMO , value investing still works & timings of investment is of utmost importance..

And one more opinion of mine is , none of the foreign investors or oil companies are at loss because of Rupee depreciation BECAUSE everyone is hedged... When they are in such big business, They show losses on paper, But behind the scenes , they are hedged and are making profit.
 
#46
RBI SAVED OUR MARKET​

Reserve Bank's policy action may have failed in containing the Sensex slide to a two-year low, but its intervention in rupee movement has helped Indian stock market retain its trillion-dollar tag, at least for now.

The market went into a tailspin today, as the central bank's decision to keep the interest rates unchanged did not help the sagging investor sentiments, and the barometer Sensex declined to its lowest level since November 3, 2009.

In the process, the value of Indian stock market, measured in terms of the collective value of all listed shares, fell to Rs 54,11,301.50 crore -- which is just over USD one-trillion dollar level at current currency rates.

In the US dollar terms, the Indian market would have lost its trillion-dollar valuation tag, if the rupee had managed to at least hold onto the record sub-54 level, it hit yesterday.

Rupee plunged to a record low of Rs 54.30 against the US dollar yesterday, but an RBI intervention reversed the fall and the Indian currency came back to near Rs 52-level.

At the rupee's record low level, Indian stock market's size would have been as low as USD 996.5 billion at the end of today's trade.

However, as the rupee has returned to near 52-level and closed at Rs 52.70 against the US dollar today, the market valuation managed to hold onto the USD one trillion mark -- although with a very thin margin at USD 1.026 trillion.

But, this position could be lost anytime, if there is any further fall in rupee valuation, or the stock market continues its losing streak.

There were no high expectations for any rate cut decision from the RBI's policy meeting today, but the prevailing high-rate regime has significantly hurt the corporate sentiments due to high borrowing costs.

The Indian market had first achieved a trillion-dollar size about four and half years ago on May 28, 2007, but moved out of this coveted league about a year later on July 1, 2008.

India again joined this elite club of markets with trillion-dollar valuation about a year later on June 3, 2009.

The Indian market was, in fact, seen inching towards the two-trillion dollar mark at least twice in the past -- first in early 2008 and then at the beginning of 2011 with a size as high as USD 1.9 trillion.

* However, a sharp plunge in the market this year has led to its valuation falling by close to Rs 20 lakh crore (over USD 500 billion) and currently faces a high risk of losing its trillion-dollar tag.
 
#47
UNCHANGED RBI POLICY AND UNCHANGED INDIAN ECONOMY WITH MARKET

By keeping key rates unchanged the central bank has left the economy unchanged.

An economy that was looking at some respite from the central banker has been given nothing but lip service in the form ‘monetary policy actions are likely to reverse the cycle, responding to risks to the growth.’ The current policy has done little by way of actions.

With the government already in hibernation, the central bank's stance,opting for a pause, has not gone down well with the market.PTI
By keeping the cash reserve ratio (CRR) and the repo rate unchanged, the cost of doing business in India continues to remain high. In fact, it has increased further as the rupee continues to depreciate. By removing speculation in the currency market through a move announced on Thursday, the central bank has made the currency market more illiquid and, in turn, more volatile.

In the policy statement, the RBI avoided spelling out any details of its plans to interfere in the currency market, something which corporates have been pleading with the central bank to do, especially after a nearly 20 percent depreciation in the currency in four months.

Corporate India is reeling under the pressure of high interest rates and non-availability of funds. With fewer companies committing to capacity addition — witnessed by a sharp drop in capital goods production— this policy will only help them delay their decision. This is exactly what the markets are saying. While the banking index is down 3.3 percent, capital goods index has fallen 4.9 percent.

PTI
Continuation of a high interest regime is only likely to increase the non-performing assets (NPA) of banks, further sucking away liquidity from the system. The NPAs of banks are at 4.19 percent compared with 3.35 percent a year ago.

Lack of liquidity has already resulted in Indian banks borrowing, on average, Rs 74,500 crore per day compared with Rs 43,800 crore in the September-ended quarter. Rates of overnight inter-bank loans climbed 315 basis points this year to 8.65 percent due to lack of liquidity. The overnight rate is the rate that large banks use to borrow and lend from one another on the overnight market, to meet short-term gaps.

What these numbers indicate is that cracks have started appearing in the economy. Rather than waiting for the cracks to expand, markets were looking at RBI to take steps to induce growth. But with rising inflation, there is little room for the central bank to maneuver. Reducing interest rates or adding liquidity would have resulted in stoking the inflation fire, which is likely to increase further with a falling rupee.

With the government already in hibernation, the central bank’s stance,opting for a pause, has not gone down well with the market. Investors bet on growth or visibility of growth.

This credit policy does not give any such hope for reviving growth.

Naturally, investors are taking the only route available now — the route to the exits.
 
#48
WHAT IS INFLATION/DEFLATION?
Deflation
Deflation is the continuous decrease in prices of goods and services. Deflation occurs when the inflation rate becomes negative (below zero) and stays there for a longer period...
What are the effects of Deflation
During deflation the price of goods and services is falling and consumers will tend to delay their purchases until prices fall further. This will cause for a lower production, lower wages and demand which will lead to further decrease in prices. This is known as deflationary spiral.
What is Inflation?
Inflation is defined as an increase in the price of bunch of Goods and services that projects the Indian economy. An increase in inflation figures occurs when there is an increase in the average level of prices in Goods and services. Inflation happens when there are less Goods and more buyers, this will result in increase in the price of Goods, since there is more demand and less supply of the goods.
Inflation causes increase of Interest
Inflation can be recognized as a combination of 4 factors :
  • The Supply of money goes up
  • The Supply of Goods goes down
  • Demand for money goes down
  • Demand for goods goes up
Our Indian government gets involved in it to control the inflation by adjusting the level of money in our economical system. The most noticeable way to increase the money flow in the system is to print more currency, then the rupees will become more relative to goods.
Inflation and Global Liquidity
Factors like rates of import and export, the production cost of farms, value of dollar, price of oil (crude oil), market movements of other overseas markets cause global liquidity. In India, we can also feel the effects of global liquidity. We are not isolated from all these issues now. Due to the remarkable economic growth of India over the recent years, increase in foreign currency inflow caused the demand in multiples for many Merchandise and services in India. RBI (Reserve Bank of India) needs to control this excess liquidity in our economic system. For this, RBI increases the Repo rates which makes Costly Credits and thus increases the CRR rate (Cash Reserve Ratio). This kind of measures by RBI can only control the inflation to a certain extent only.
 
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#49
Relation between Inflation and Bank interest Rates
Now a days, you might have heard lot of these terms and usage on inflation and the bank interest rates. We are trying to make it simple for you to understand the relation between inflation and bank interest rates in India.
Bank interest rate depends on many other factors, out of that the major one is inflation. Whenever you see an increase on inflation, there will be an increase of interest rate also.
 
#50
CRR Rate in India​
Cash reserve Ratio (CRR) is the amount of funds that the banks have to keep with RBI. If RBI decides to increase the percent of this, the available amount with the banks comes down. RBI is using this method (increase of CRR rate), to drain out the excessive money from the banks.
 

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