How much profit does a Full-time trader deserves in a Month?
- Thread starter soft_trader
- Start date
Hi
The years 1997, 1998 and 1999 were truly belong to software sectors. Any company (means any company whether it was a garbage or bluechip) with a technical name like software, tech, info or media was the hottest pick. Entire investing community chased them like a hot cake. Do you believe, almost all tech companies were appreciated more than 10 times during a year for consecutive three years. That means a single company was appreciated between 400-2000 times in these three years. Obviously, at the start of my trading career, my entire attention went into this sector. In fact, many scrips clocked a daily gain of 16% (maximum upward permissible limit) for some days.
So I concentrated on these scrips. I gave 2,00,000/- as margin money and kept 1,00,000/- with me for my day to day expenses. My style of trading (analysis) was of counter trend type. In fact when I tried to sell after six or seven up bars in 15 min. chart, the result was mediocre and in the first two month I was not able make a single rupee as profit. Even my broker offered me to join his company again but I politely declined. I gradually gave more time to read the charts. So I had to sit upto 6-7 pm at the broker's office. My broker also wanted my view regarding market. So he let me to sit in his office to analyse the charts. One conclusion I draw from this market was "trading and analysis were both different". In fact, my analysis was far far better than trading result. When one person actively trade in a market, his learning curve becomes much steeper (faster). In the mean time I had already known all the basic principles of technical analysis. In the last two months I realised that I had lost the capability of holding a position for longer time and started to book profit very quickly although I cut losses at stop loss level. Even after taking five to six profits in a row, a single stop loss hit erased my entire profit. After some analysis, I found although I entered as per my strategy but I could not follow that strategy after sometimes. That thing happened because of fluctuation in price. So I decided to leave the office for sometime after initiating a position with stop loss order. I told my dealer friend to intimate me on my pager for any movement. Since the software sector was in strong bullish mode, so counter trend strategy was not working well. So I select some scrips in software sector which were ripe for some correction. In that process, my first entry was in Global Tele System. After initiating the trade with stop loss, I left the office. Within 10 to 15 minutes, I got a massage in my pager that my SL was triggered. I rushed to office and saw Global Tele was quoting at 3% higher from my entry price. It made me very furious as my SL price was the day's low and in that process I lost 10,000/- rupees. I immediately went to knight-Rider and searched for some scrips then again I took position in Zee Tele. To my utmost surprise, stop loss triggered again with a loss of 10,000/- rupees. After loosing 20,000/- in a single day, I was completely shocked and left the trading for a week.
In the mean time, I knew lots people in trading circle. Again to my surprise, I found everybody was a looser. Suddenly, I introduced with a client (Mr. Gulati) in my office by my dealer friend. My friend told me to interact with him more. Since he saw me working with charts, he also took interest in me. I found that he was a businessman. Sometimes back he suffered huge loss in his business as well as in stock market and literally became a beggar. Within one and half year he managed to maintain his family in a normal way due to trading in stock market. It was a great moral boosting factor for me as I had not seen a single gainer in the market (including myself). So I tried to learn his technique. Basically he was a jobber and the company had charged him a brokerage of 0.015%. His daily turnover was between 4 crores to 10 crores. Company had provided him a separate terminal with a dedicated dealer (for a charge of 5000/- to 7000/- rupees). His technique basically based on screen reading. To my surprise, he had a positive payout. In the last two month, he had taken 1,50,000/- pay out from the company whereas I had zero payout. Gradually, I knew that he had accounts with another two brokers and they also charged him 0.02% brokerage. Since I was starved for success so I decided that I will monitor him closely.
Just have patience for my next journey.
With best wishes.
The years 1997, 1998 and 1999 were truly belong to software sectors. Any company (means any company whether it was a garbage or bluechip) with a technical name like software, tech, info or media was the hottest pick. Entire investing community chased them like a hot cake. Do you believe, almost all tech companies were appreciated more than 10 times during a year for consecutive three years. That means a single company was appreciated between 400-2000 times in these three years. Obviously, at the start of my trading career, my entire attention went into this sector. In fact, many scrips clocked a daily gain of 16% (maximum upward permissible limit) for some days.
So I concentrated on these scrips. I gave 2,00,000/- as margin money and kept 1,00,000/- with me for my day to day expenses. My style of trading (analysis) was of counter trend type. In fact when I tried to sell after six or seven up bars in 15 min. chart, the result was mediocre and in the first two month I was not able make a single rupee as profit. Even my broker offered me to join his company again but I politely declined. I gradually gave more time to read the charts. So I had to sit upto 6-7 pm at the broker's office. My broker also wanted my view regarding market. So he let me to sit in his office to analyse the charts. One conclusion I draw from this market was "trading and analysis were both different". In fact, my analysis was far far better than trading result. When one person actively trade in a market, his learning curve becomes much steeper (faster). In the mean time I had already known all the basic principles of technical analysis. In the last two months I realised that I had lost the capability of holding a position for longer time and started to book profit very quickly although I cut losses at stop loss level. Even after taking five to six profits in a row, a single stop loss hit erased my entire profit. After some analysis, I found although I entered as per my strategy but I could not follow that strategy after sometimes. That thing happened because of fluctuation in price. So I decided to leave the office for sometime after initiating a position with stop loss order. I told my dealer friend to intimate me on my pager for any movement. Since the software sector was in strong bullish mode, so counter trend strategy was not working well. So I select some scrips in software sector which were ripe for some correction. In that process, my first entry was in Global Tele System. After initiating the trade with stop loss, I left the office. Within 10 to 15 minutes, I got a massage in my pager that my SL was triggered. I rushed to office and saw Global Tele was quoting at 3% higher from my entry price. It made me very furious as my SL price was the day's low and in that process I lost 10,000/- rupees. I immediately went to knight-Rider and searched for some scrips then again I took position in Zee Tele. To my utmost surprise, stop loss triggered again with a loss of 10,000/- rupees. After loosing 20,000/- in a single day, I was completely shocked and left the trading for a week.
In the mean time, I knew lots people in trading circle. Again to my surprise, I found everybody was a looser. Suddenly, I introduced with a client (Mr. Gulati) in my office by my dealer friend. My friend told me to interact with him more. Since he saw me working with charts, he also took interest in me. I found that he was a businessman. Sometimes back he suffered huge loss in his business as well as in stock market and literally became a beggar. Within one and half year he managed to maintain his family in a normal way due to trading in stock market. It was a great moral boosting factor for me as I had not seen a single gainer in the market (including myself). So I tried to learn his technique. Basically he was a jobber and the company had charged him a brokerage of 0.015%. His daily turnover was between 4 crores to 10 crores. Company had provided him a separate terminal with a dedicated dealer (for a charge of 5000/- to 7000/- rupees). His technique basically based on screen reading. To my surprise, he had a positive payout. In the last two month, he had taken 1,50,000/- pay out from the company whereas I had zero payout. Gradually, I knew that he had accounts with another two brokers and they also charged him 0.02% brokerage. Since I was starved for success so I decided that I will monitor him closely.
Just have patience for my next journey.
With best wishes.
Hi,
Let us start the journey.
Since I had no obligation, I decided that it is better to stay away from trading for the time being and concentrate in other things. So I told Mr. Gulati to keep me as his dealer since I was very much conversant with NEAT terminal and for that service I will not charge him a single paisa. After some reluctance, finally he agreed with a condition that I should not trade. In fact, it was a good opportunity for me to closely monitor his trade. He did not follow any charts. He was completely a tape reader. These were my observations as a dealer of Mr. Gulati.
1. He basically followed 4 to 5 scrips.
2. These were the scrips which had high volatility and high volume (Basically these were software scrips).
3. He was basically a jobber, at times his position stayed only for few seconds.
4. When he squared up his position in a profit, he let 10% of his position to continue and keep stop loss at breakeven price of that trade.
5. He never took any overnight position (at least during my association).
Believe me, such was his screen reading accuracy, he managed to make a profit of 75,000/- in a single month. My association with him lasted for one and half month. after that period, he switched to some other broker. In that one and half month, I was very fast on key board and told my broker to allot me a NEAT terminal for jobbing. He eagerly accepted my proposal. Again to my surprise, I was not able to make any profit in my first month. In fact, there was a loss (although the amount was not big). My daily turnover was between 5-10 crore and in that month I was generated brokerage around three lakhs with a brokerage rate of 0.02%. In this one month I had not followed any chart. Now I felt pressure on me as I spent six months without any result.
Finally, I decided that I will risk another 50,000/- to 60,000/-. If I will get any success, then I will continue, otherwise I will quit trading. It was around August 1999. Again I went back to the Knight-Rider and start analysing. I decided that I will risk 10,000/- in each trade with a total loss of 60,000/- and after initiating a trade I will place stop loss immediately and leave the seat and close the position by phone just 10 minutes before market close. In that process, my first trade was Software Solution (it was a favourite of Mr. Gulati). At that moment,I had a margin money around 1,60,000/-. So I initiated a long position of 50 shares with a stop loss below 200 points. In this trade I almost earned 20,000/- in a single day. From August, 1999 to February 2000 was the climax period for software sector. During this period, my 1,60,000/- had turned into 8,00,000/- only by positional trade. But when software stocks started to tumble, I lost 2,00,000/- rupees in only two trades. I was completely nervous by their vertical fall. At that time, market was divided into two type of stocks. One was New Economy Stocks (Software, Media and Telecom) and the other was Old Economy Stock (rest). It was a complete taboo to touch Old Economy stock. So I decided to buy some stock from Old Economy Stock of worth 5,00,000/- for long term purpose (more than 5 years) and go for a analyst job. I bought 1000 Bajaj Auto @ 550/- and searched for a new job. Finally I got a job with a NSE broker with a salary of 25,000/- per month. My joining date was 3rd October, 2000 (it was a Tuesday) It was a big achievement for me. On Monday (It was Gandhi Jayanti), one of my newly married friend invited me and some friends for launch. I was coming along with my friends on bike. In front of my friend's house, the bike on which I was riding got slipped. Although the fall was minor, but I suffered the major accident of my life.
Now have patience for my next journey.
With Best Wishes
Let us start the journey.
Since I had no obligation, I decided that it is better to stay away from trading for the time being and concentrate in other things. So I told Mr. Gulati to keep me as his dealer since I was very much conversant with NEAT terminal and for that service I will not charge him a single paisa. After some reluctance, finally he agreed with a condition that I should not trade. In fact, it was a good opportunity for me to closely monitor his trade. He did not follow any charts. He was completely a tape reader. These were my observations as a dealer of Mr. Gulati.
1. He basically followed 4 to 5 scrips.
2. These were the scrips which had high volatility and high volume (Basically these were software scrips).
3. He was basically a jobber, at times his position stayed only for few seconds.
4. When he squared up his position in a profit, he let 10% of his position to continue and keep stop loss at breakeven price of that trade.
5. He never took any overnight position (at least during my association).
Believe me, such was his screen reading accuracy, he managed to make a profit of 75,000/- in a single month. My association with him lasted for one and half month. after that period, he switched to some other broker. In that one and half month, I was very fast on key board and told my broker to allot me a NEAT terminal for jobbing. He eagerly accepted my proposal. Again to my surprise, I was not able to make any profit in my first month. In fact, there was a loss (although the amount was not big). My daily turnover was between 5-10 crore and in that month I was generated brokerage around three lakhs with a brokerage rate of 0.02%. In this one month I had not followed any chart. Now I felt pressure on me as I spent six months without any result.
Finally, I decided that I will risk another 50,000/- to 60,000/-. If I will get any success, then I will continue, otherwise I will quit trading. It was around August 1999. Again I went back to the Knight-Rider and start analysing. I decided that I will risk 10,000/- in each trade with a total loss of 60,000/- and after initiating a trade I will place stop loss immediately and leave the seat and close the position by phone just 10 minutes before market close. In that process, my first trade was Software Solution (it was a favourite of Mr. Gulati). At that moment,I had a margin money around 1,60,000/-. So I initiated a long position of 50 shares with a stop loss below 200 points. In this trade I almost earned 20,000/- in a single day. From August, 1999 to February 2000 was the climax period for software sector. During this period, my 1,60,000/- had turned into 8,00,000/- only by positional trade. But when software stocks started to tumble, I lost 2,00,000/- rupees in only two trades. I was completely nervous by their vertical fall. At that time, market was divided into two type of stocks. One was New Economy Stocks (Software, Media and Telecom) and the other was Old Economy Stock (rest). It was a complete taboo to touch Old Economy stock. So I decided to buy some stock from Old Economy Stock of worth 5,00,000/- for long term purpose (more than 5 years) and go for a analyst job. I bought 1000 Bajaj Auto @ 550/- and searched for a new job. Finally I got a job with a NSE broker with a salary of 25,000/- per month. My joining date was 3rd October, 2000 (it was a Tuesday) It was a big achievement for me. On Monday (It was Gandhi Jayanti), one of my newly married friend invited me and some friends for launch. I was coming along with my friends on bike. In front of my friend's house, the bike on which I was riding got slipped. Although the fall was minor, but I suffered the major accident of my life.
Now have patience for my next journey.
With Best Wishes
. By the way, what's the meaning of tape trader. Here in traderji i come across many new things and words. hm...
Hi
After that fall, I had broken my right hand and after diagnosis, that fracture turned out to be fibrous displacia. For that disease, I had to be out from the market for more than one year. It cost me around 1 lakh. I was completely bed ridden for almost six months. From October, 2000 to October 2002, I was in my home town. Around, April, 2001, some people of my town came to me with a peculiar problem. There was a person who was supposed to be a regional manager of SBI had taken around 4-5 Crore rupees from public with a monthly interest varying from 3% to 10%. Now that person was absconding. So these people, after taking all the papers from his office came to me for verification. I found, that manager had entered into the market in 1999 with an amount around 25,00,000/-. Since the year 1999 was the most explosive year for software sector, he made good amount of money in that year after paying 3% to 4% of interest every month. That pay out spreaded like wild fire and it helped him to garner 4-5 Crores from public. In fact, he invested around 3 crores in software sectors and kept the rest amount for interest payment. After taking delivery, he pledged those shares as margin money and started trading. Within 5-6 month time frame, his entire amount had blown up. Now that person (who was a respectable person in society) is staying at Mumbai and is doing tution for his livelihood. He has never come to his hometown since then. I have met that person personally at Kolkata where he initially stayed. Another incident which still remains in my memory was a suicide commited by a young couple and the story was same as above. I knew that couple personally. That incident occurred at the time of Ketan Parekh scam and the crisis at Kolkata Stock Exchange. In fact, after Kolkata stock exchange crisis, all regional exchanges lost their existence except BSE.
After staying for one year at home, I tried to trade from there. I took 50,000/- from my father and 50,000/- from my account. It was completely "tukka" and trading was without any chart and the end result was complete washout. It happened within three months of trading. In the meantime, my sister's marriage had been fixed around April,2002. At the time of marriage, we suddenly needed 3 lakhs of rupees. At that time, I sold my 1000 Bajaj-Auto shares @ 264/- (near its all time low) and gave 2,50,000/- to my father. In this trade I lost almost 3,00,000/- rupees but I did not have any option. He was very happy. After my sister's marriage, I decided to come back to Delhi again. At that moment my entire family was against my decision to come back Delhi. Finally I came to Delhi around October, 2002.
Please have patience for my next journey.
With best wishes
After that fall, I had broken my right hand and after diagnosis, that fracture turned out to be fibrous displacia. For that disease, I had to be out from the market for more than one year. It cost me around 1 lakh. I was completely bed ridden for almost six months. From October, 2000 to October 2002, I was in my home town. Around, April, 2001, some people of my town came to me with a peculiar problem. There was a person who was supposed to be a regional manager of SBI had taken around 4-5 Crore rupees from public with a monthly interest varying from 3% to 10%. Now that person was absconding. So these people, after taking all the papers from his office came to me for verification. I found, that manager had entered into the market in 1999 with an amount around 25,00,000/-. Since the year 1999 was the most explosive year for software sector, he made good amount of money in that year after paying 3% to 4% of interest every month. That pay out spreaded like wild fire and it helped him to garner 4-5 Crores from public. In fact, he invested around 3 crores in software sectors and kept the rest amount for interest payment. After taking delivery, he pledged those shares as margin money and started trading. Within 5-6 month time frame, his entire amount had blown up. Now that person (who was a respectable person in society) is staying at Mumbai and is doing tution for his livelihood. He has never come to his hometown since then. I have met that person personally at Kolkata where he initially stayed. Another incident which still remains in my memory was a suicide commited by a young couple and the story was same as above. I knew that couple personally. That incident occurred at the time of Ketan Parekh scam and the crisis at Kolkata Stock Exchange. In fact, after Kolkata stock exchange crisis, all regional exchanges lost their existence except BSE.
After staying for one year at home, I tried to trade from there. I took 50,000/- from my father and 50,000/- from my account. It was completely "tukka" and trading was without any chart and the end result was complete washout. It happened within three months of trading. In the meantime, my sister's marriage had been fixed around April,2002. At the time of marriage, we suddenly needed 3 lakhs of rupees. At that time, I sold my 1000 Bajaj-Auto shares @ 264/- (near its all time low) and gave 2,50,000/- to my father. In this trade I lost almost 3,00,000/- rupees but I did not have any option. He was very happy. After my sister's marriage, I decided to come back to Delhi again. At that moment my entire family was against my decision to come back Delhi. Finally I came to Delhi around October, 2002.
Please have patience for my next journey.
With best wishes
Hi,
When I came back to Delhi, I did not have any back up. Since I was coming after a major setback in my life, again my father gave me 2,00,000/- for my future. I knew, this was the last help from my father as he was already retired. After reaching Delhi, I found that everything had been changed. Seven day carry forward system was completely abolished and a rolling settlement was introduced in stead. Most of the regional exchange brokers closed their offices. Paper trading was completely abolished. Future and Option segment had already introduced and the brokerage rate was sliced down to 0.03% -0.01% range. Most importantly, the jobbing activity was at its peak.
So it was very difficult for me to adopt in the new environment. Now everybody seem to be more professional. I went to the company where I got the joining offer, unfortunately that company was also closed and they shifted to real estate segment.
So I was little bit demoralised. One of my close friend called me to meet him. In fact he was a floor trader. Before my accident, he was working with a broker with good salary. But when I met, I found he was trading of his own at a broker's office. I asked him about this reason. He told me that sometimes around mid 2001, he got a tips (which he thought was a lottery) from a Mumbai based friend. Without thinking anything he took a leaveraged position in a single software scrip. In that position, he lost almost 25,00,000/- rupees. Because of his good relationship with brokers, he was told to repay the amount without any interest payment. That was the main reason for his trading. He told me he has already repay 15,00,000/- rupees. When I enquired more, he took me to his office and introduced to his broker. The office was situated at Daryaganj. I sat with him for about a month and found that his daily turnover was more than 60 Crore and his monthly payout was around 2,50,000/-. I had never seen such type of payout from jobbing, although Mr. Gulati had a very good monthly payout. I immediately told him to arrange a seat for me there. His broker promised me to arrange a seat within seven days but due to some technical unfeasibility the arrangement can not done. So I again came back to my previous broker and gave 1,50,000/- as margin money. Again I slowly started trading. At Daryaganj, the broker charged everybody 250/- per crore only. At that time, there was no sevice tax, Stamp duty, STT. Only Nse charged 75/- as turnover charges. Now here, my broker charged me 0.01% per crore as intraday brokerage. So my inclination was to trade at Daryaganj but that was not possible at that time.
For the next three month, my trading went smoothly and I managed to take a monthly payout of around 15,000/- to 20,000/-. My entire trading was of intraday type (not jobbing type) and I referred Knight-Rider for my analysis. One day around February 2003, I had a short position in one lot of HPCL future. The lot size was 2000. Unfortunately I was not able to close that position due to link failure. Since HPCL was trading around year's low so my intention was not to take it overnight.
Please have patience for my next journey.
With best wishes
When I came back to Delhi, I did not have any back up. Since I was coming after a major setback in my life, again my father gave me 2,00,000/- for my future. I knew, this was the last help from my father as he was already retired. After reaching Delhi, I found that everything had been changed. Seven day carry forward system was completely abolished and a rolling settlement was introduced in stead. Most of the regional exchange brokers closed their offices. Paper trading was completely abolished. Future and Option segment had already introduced and the brokerage rate was sliced down to 0.03% -0.01% range. Most importantly, the jobbing activity was at its peak.
So it was very difficult for me to adopt in the new environment. Now everybody seem to be more professional. I went to the company where I got the joining offer, unfortunately that company was also closed and they shifted to real estate segment.
So I was little bit demoralised. One of my close friend called me to meet him. In fact he was a floor trader. Before my accident, he was working with a broker with good salary. But when I met, I found he was trading of his own at a broker's office. I asked him about this reason. He told me that sometimes around mid 2001, he got a tips (which he thought was a lottery) from a Mumbai based friend. Without thinking anything he took a leaveraged position in a single software scrip. In that position, he lost almost 25,00,000/- rupees. Because of his good relationship with brokers, he was told to repay the amount without any interest payment. That was the main reason for his trading. He told me he has already repay 15,00,000/- rupees. When I enquired more, he took me to his office and introduced to his broker. The office was situated at Daryaganj. I sat with him for about a month and found that his daily turnover was more than 60 Crore and his monthly payout was around 2,50,000/-. I had never seen such type of payout from jobbing, although Mr. Gulati had a very good monthly payout. I immediately told him to arrange a seat for me there. His broker promised me to arrange a seat within seven days but due to some technical unfeasibility the arrangement can not done. So I again came back to my previous broker and gave 1,50,000/- as margin money. Again I slowly started trading. At Daryaganj, the broker charged everybody 250/- per crore only. At that time, there was no sevice tax, Stamp duty, STT. Only Nse charged 75/- as turnover charges. Now here, my broker charged me 0.01% per crore as intraday brokerage. So my inclination was to trade at Daryaganj but that was not possible at that time.
For the next three month, my trading went smoothly and I managed to take a monthly payout of around 15,000/- to 20,000/-. My entire trading was of intraday type (not jobbing type) and I referred Knight-Rider for my analysis. One day around February 2003, I had a short position in one lot of HPCL future. The lot size was 2000. Unfortunately I was not able to close that position due to link failure. Since HPCL was trading around year's low so my intention was not to take it overnight.
Please have patience for my next journey.
With best wishes
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