BNF -Option Trading - Intraday

marimuthu13

Well-Known Member
#1
hi
anybody has experience in using BO (Bracket order) for buying options ? if we are using BO, will we get same leverage of 5 times for options also ??
 

headstrong007

----- Full-Time ----- Day-Trader
#3
For your information,
Trade Smart Online is giving INTRADAY Equity/Index Options buying leverage 1.33 times using BO-CO.
Probably this is maximum you can have. Most discount brokers don't give any leverage for options buying.
 

marimuthu13

Well-Known Member
#4
I read somewhere samco and SAS online giving 2 times for options buying and 5 times for options selling using BO

Need to enquire about it..

Also what about finvasia who offers paid leverage.... Paid leverage means can we use it across instruments???

And wisdom capital... Leverage expert???

Zerotha offers 1.4x leverage for options buying as per their margin calculator
 

headstrong007

----- Full-Time ----- Day-Trader
#5
SAMCO;-

http://blog.samco.in/samco-margin-policies-and-limits/

Clearly mentioned,

Long options i.e. Option Purchased
100% premium paid required as margin for both NRML and MIS.

***********************
SAS:-
According to their site there is no leverage for option buying.
https://sasonline.in/faq/intraday-leverage-will-get-trading/

Mentioned there,
What is the intraday leverage provided for trading?
Options (Only Selling).

Another link:-
https://sasonline.in/faq/what-are-the-margins/
100% premium amount for buying

**********************

ZEROdha:-

https://zerodha.com/z-connect/tradezerodha/margin-requirements/zerodha-margin-policies

According to their site there is no leverage for option buying. See following quote:-

"When you buy options, either equity or currency there is no additional leverage we provide. So if you are buying calls or puts of any contract, the premium required to buy them has to be present in your trading account. You can trade options either with product type as NRML or MIS, but since there is no additional leverage provided if you use product type as MIS, it is advisable not to use MIS while buying options since all MIS positions would get squared off before the close of markets."

-------------
Zerodha even blocks BO-CO for Bank Nifty Weekly Options frequently during volatile times. Zerodha also blocks many OTM strikes in Bank Nifty Options which is accessible from other brokers. Trading Bank Nifty Options with Zerodha is a big risk.

***********************

WISDOM:-

According to their site there is no leverage for option buying (Leverage is onLY 1X means no leverage for option buying). Although they provide high leverage for Intraday Option Selling. Their offers is probably best for intraday option selling currently.

https://wisdomcapital.in/brokerage-plan/
Use drop down (Plan comparison) from above page.

Intraday Exposure NO Leverage for option buying.
1X Buy & 6X Sell for pro(Rs 9 pr trade). 1X Buy & UPTO 10X sell for ultimate(Rs 15/lot).

****************************

FINVASIA:-
They provide no leverage for Option Buying you need 100% capital for option buying.

****************************

If you find any solid and confirmed info about leverage in option buying from any broker share it here in future.
Happy Trading.
 

headstrong007

----- Full-Time ----- Day-Trader
#6
Share where you found, Zerotha offers 1.4x leverage for options buying.
Any active trader trading option with Zerodha may confirm leverage on option buying is recently introduced.
Zerodha margin calculator is with lots of errors. Unless someone traded or clearly mentioned on their web site we have to wait for solid confirmation.
 

marimuthu13

Well-Known Member
#7
SAMCO;-

http://blog.samco.in/samco-margin-policies-and-limits/

Clearly mentioned,

Long options i.e. Option Purchased
100% premium paid required as margin for both NRML and MIS.

***********************
SAS:-
According to their site there is no leverage for option buying.
https://sasonline.in/faq/intraday-leverage-will-get-trading/

Mentioned there,
What is the intraday leverage provided for trading?
Options (Only Selling).

Another link:-
https://sasonline.in/faq/what-are-the-margins/
100% premium amount for buying

**********************

ZEROdha:-

https://zerodha.com/z-connect/tradezerodha/margin-requirements/zerodha-margin-policies

According to their site there is no leverage for option buying. See following quote:-

"When you buy options, either equity or currency there is no additional leverage we provide. So if you are buying calls or puts of any contract, the premium required to buy them has to be present in your trading account. You can trade options either with product type as NRML or MIS, but since there is no additional leverage provided if you use product type as MIS, it is advisable not to use MIS while buying options since all MIS positions would get squared off before the close of markets."

-------------
Zerodha even blocks BO-CO for Bank Nifty Weekly Options frequently during volatile times. Zerodha also blocks many OTM strikes in Bank Nifty Options which is accessible from other brokers. Trading Bank Nifty Options with Zerodha is a big risk.

***********************

WISDOM:-

According to their site there is no leverage for option buying (Leverage is onLY 1X means no leverage for option buying). Although they provide high leverage for Intraday Option Selling. Their offers is probably best for intraday option selling currently.

https://wisdomcapital.in/brokerage-plan/
Use drop down (Plan comparison) from above page.

Intraday Exposure NO Leverage for option buying.
1X Buy & 6X Sell for pro(Rs 9 pr trade). 1X Buy & UPTO 10X sell for ultimate(Rs 15/lot).

****************************

FINVASIA:-
They provide no leverage for Option Buying you need 100% capital for option buying.

****************************

If you find any solid and confirmed info about leverage in option buying from any broker share it here in future.
Happy Trading.
https://sasonline.in/faq/bracket-orders-work/

Please check it.. They have mentioned very clearly 2 times leverage for options buying and 5 times leverage for options selling...

I asked it for bracket order.. Whereas your all links talked about Mission order type
 

headstrong007

----- Full-Time ----- Day-Trader
#8
https://sasonline.in/faq/bracket-orders-work/

Please check it.. They have mentioned very clearly 2 times leverage for options buying and 5 times leverage for options selling...

I asked it for bracket order.. Whereas your all links talked about Mission order type

Yes, I see the there, following,

  • Bracket orders are available in NSE Futures (5 times limits), Options Buying (2 times limits) and Options Selling (5 times limits) as of now.
  • For availing 2 times margin in option buying, you need to enter SL Order at a price difference of 30% from your trade rate.
  • And for availing 5 times margin in option selling, you need to enter SL Order within 1% range for Index options and within 2% range for Stock Options. (1% and 2% of the underlying price).
According to that page 2 times limits with option buying with 30% stop, although 30% stop is too close for option buying, specially in Weekly Bank Nifty Options where we see wild swings. Anyway its is good we found a 2 times leverage broker too.

2nd part in bold is probably misleading. Is that possible there to enter option stop loss using 1% and 2% of the underlying price? For example putting Bank Nifty Option stop loss using Bank Nifty Spot? :confusedd:
 

marimuthu13

Well-Known Member
#9
Yes, I see the there, following,

  • Bracket orders are available in NSE Futures (5 times limits), Options Buying (2 times limits) and Options Selling (5 times limits) as of now.
  • For availing 2 times margin in option buying, you need to enter SL Order at a price difference of 30% from your trade rate.
  • And for availing 5 times margin in option selling, you need to enter SL Order within 1% range for Index options and within 2% range for Stock Options. (1% and 2% of the underlying price).
According to that page 2 times limits with option buying with 30% stop, although 30% stop is too close for option buying, specially in Weekly Bank Nifty Options where we see wild swings. Anyway its is good we found a 2 times leverage broker too.

2nd part in bold is probably misleading. Is that possible there to enter option stop loss using 1% and 2% of the underlying price? For example putting Bank Nifty Option stop loss using Bank Nifty Spot? :confusedd:
It's not confusing or misleading....

Its preety simple for me..

Let's say BNF call and put option is trading at 200..

For options buying using BO, your SL is greater than 140...that is 30% of premium value.. So SL of 60 points

For options selling, say BN is trading at 26800, your SL could be index value of 27050 which will turn into 150 to 200 points of premium value..
 

headstrong007

----- Full-Time ----- Day-Trader
#10
No, I said it's misleading only for selling. For buying it is crystal clear we can easily calculate 30% on premium.

But, for selling if stop is using 1% of Index say 265 on spot then, you can't calculate the stop in premium as it is on variable option geeks. We have to place clear stop inside BO window so we need to now stop in exact premium in percentage. Also premium hugely varies on different strikes and weekly to monthly options depending on demand and supply too. It is very difficult to calculate 1% on Index effect on a particular option strike premiums. Say Bank Nifty Spot @26500, how you'll calculate 1% stop limit effect on premiums on diff weekly and monthly strikes, its very difficult.

Different option strikes may be in the range between Rs 10 to Rs 250, they will move completely differently with same 1% rise or drop in Index depending on options geeks. As geeks are variable no one can calculate exact effect when Index reach there. Price depends on time too there is time decay. It's looking pretty complicated for me.
For example if BN i trading 26800 and stop is 268 then using option calculator you can see completely different value on premiums based on different strikes expiary (current week, next week, monthly). Also different strikes has different IV(volatility) attached with it. Very difficult to calculate max stop quickly during live trading.

Anyway we wanted leverage for buying options and got 2X from somewhere (even with 30% stop it is good), that is great. Option buyers can use this.

There is already better offer(higher leverage with wisdom Rs 9 per trade pro plan) availble with intraday selling from other brokers. So no need to go with such complecated stops for selling with SAS. IMO.

We will share other brokers here to benefit others, if we found such interesting leverages.
 
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