Saravanan Notes

SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
Stocks Scanning

If the intention is to invest for the medium/long term, and not focus on day trading, then...

New 52 week highs sometimes give very good leads of cos where 'something good is yet to be announced or be known'

Within such list, discard those where the upside appears limited e.g. where the price may have already gone up more than 8 or 10 times (high : low)

Also discard whose charts look manipulated ( e.g. circular trading ... not very common though, and not easy to spot) or which are v low profile

Then look for the fundamental story (better future earnings, massive new orders, recent improvement in business model, takeover target etc) ... needs lots of research usually, or access to insider info (not a crime)

The ideal final group belongs to B1 and B2 Group of BSE (in terms of potential % gains).

Finally,consult some good chartist to confirm bullish pattern in the chosen scrip(s)

I have followed this strategy, with hits outnumbering misses at least two is to one over many years. Some have been potential ten baggers ( Clutch Auto) where sadly I cashed out prematurely

Thanks AGILENT :)

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SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
PE Investing

What I think is the best way of investing for capital appreciation in very decent approach and minimizing risks and removing emotions out of trade is to invest in markets when valuations are mid to low and exit when valuations are high.

STOP THINKING PROFITS CAN BE MADE OVERNIGHT. Than this post is not for you.

My words are very comfortable to every investor. Get one thing in mind very clear one cannot buy at bottom and sell at high. Its impossible for even WARREN BUFFET AND RAKESH JHUNJHUNWALA that what ever they trade they buy at bottom rates and sell at highest level.

NOW
WHERE TO INVEST?
To make decent profit one has to start investing. Before investing in stock markets research is must. Leave that to experts(Fund Managers). They charge nothing comparatively what they serve. Pick 3-4 diversified MF scheme largecap or midcap or smallcap. Balance as per your risk appetite.

WHEN TO INVEST?
Markets are best to be judge by their PE ratio book value ratio. Simplifying investing is to just follow PE ratio. When markets are at 17-18 PE they are considered to be fairly valued. below 14-15 PE is undervalued. above 21-22 markets are overvalued.

Just follow the method not what your brain or heart or TV or media say. What they say now is that markets are going to get double in 1-2 years. Absolutely bullshit. Currently nifty is at 21-22 PE.

History says investment done at 21-22 PE results in 20% absolute returns over 3 years and above that they result in negative returns.

PE ratio can be checked on nse india.com and many other websites

Written By pawan3796

Chart by Hauler


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SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
Investment Rules

Larry Williams's Investing Rules

1. It's all about survival:
No platitudes here, speculating is very dangerous business. It is not about winning or losing, it is about surviving the lows and the highs. If you don't survive, you can't win.

The first requirement of survival is that you must have a premise to speculate upon. Rumors, tips, full moons and feelings are not a premise. A premise suggests there is an underlying truth to what you are taking action upon. A short-term trader's premise may be different from a long-term player's but they both need to have proven logic and tools. Most investors and traders spend more time figuring out which laptop to buy than they do before plunking down tens of thousands of dollars on a snap decision, or one based upon totally fallacious reasoning.

There is some rhyme and reason to how, why and when markets move - not enough - but it is there. The problem is that there are more techniques that don't work, than there are techniques that do. I suggest you spend an immense and inordinate amount of time and effort learning these critical elements before entering the foray of financial frolics.

So, you have money management under control, have a valid system, approach or premise to act upon - you still need control of yourself.


2. Ultimately this is an emotional game - always has been, always will be:
Anytime money is involved - your money - blood boils, sweaty hands prevail, and mental processes are shortcircuited by illogical emotions. Just when most traders buy, they should have sold! Or, fear, a major emotion, scares them away from a great trade/investment. Or, their bet is way too big. The money management decision becomes an emotional one, not one of logic.


3. Greed prevails - proving you are more motivated by greed than fear and understanding the difference:
The mere fact you are a speculator means you have less fear than a 'normal' person does. You are more motivated by making money. Other people are more motivated by not losing.

Greed is the trader's Achilles' heel. Greed will keep hopes alive, encourage you to hold on to losing trades and nail down winners too soon. Hope is your worst enemy because it causes you to dream of great profits, to enter an unreal world. Trust me, the world of speculating is very real, people lose all they have, marriages are broken up, families tossed asunder by either enormous gains or losses.

My approach to this is to not take any of it very seriously; the winnings may be fleeting, always pursued by the taxman, lawyers and nefarious investment schemes.

How you handle greed is different than I do, so I cannot give an absolute maxim here, but I can tell you this, you must get it in control or you will not survive.


4. Fear inhibits risk taking - just when you should take risk:
Fear causes you to not do what you should do. You frighten yourself out of trades that are winners in deference to trades that lose or go nowhere. Succinctly stated, greed causes you to do what we should not do, fear causes us to not do what we should do.

Fear, psychologists say, causes you to freeze up. Speculators act like a deer caught in the headlights of a car. They can see the car - a losing trade, coming at them - at 120 miles per hour - but they fail to take the action they should.

Worse yet, they take a pass on the winning trades. Why, I do not know. But I do know this: the more frightened I am of taking a trade the greater the probabilities are it will be a winning trade. Most investors scare themselves out of greatness.


5. Money management is the creation of wealth:
Sure, you can make money as a trader or investor, have a good time, and get some great stories to tell. But, the extrapolation of profits will not come as much from your trading and investing skills as how you manage your money.

I'm probably best known for winning the Robbins World Cup Trading Championship, turning $10,000 into $1,100,000.00 in 12 months. That was real money, real trades, and real time performance. For years people have asked for my trades to figure out how I did it. I gladly oblige them, they will learn little there - what created the gargantuan gain was not great trading ability nearly as much as the very aggressive form of money management I used. The approach was to buy more contracts when I had more equity in my account, cut back when I had less. That's what made the cool million smackers - not some great trading skill. Ten years later my 16-year-old daughter won the same trading contest taking $10,000 to $110,000.00 (The second best performance in the 20-year history of the championship). Did she have any trading secret, any magical chart, line, and formula? No. She simply followed a decent system of trading, backed with a superior form of money management.


6. Big money does not make big bets:
You have probably read the stories of what I call the swashbuckler traders, like Jesse Livermore, John 'bet a millions' Gates, Niederhoffer, Frankie Joe and the like. They all ultimately made big bets and lost big time.

Smart money never bets big. Why should it? You can win big on small bets, see #5 above, but eventually if you bet big you will lose - and you will lose big.

It's like Russian Roulette. You may well spin the chamber holding the bullet many times and never lose. But spin it often enough and there can be only one result: death. If you make big bets you are destined to be a big loser. Plunging is a loser's game; it can only set you up for failure. I never bet big (I used to - been there and done that and trust me, it is no way to live). I bet a small per cent of my account, bankroll if you will. that way I have controlled loss. There can be no survival without damage control.


7. God may delay but God does not deny:
I never know when during a year I will make my money. It may be on the first trade of the year, or the last (though I hope not). Victory is out there to be grasped, but you must be prepared to do battle for a long period of time.

Additionally, while far from a religious person, I think the belief in a much higher power, God, is critical to success as a trader. It helps puts wins and losses into perspective, enables you to persevere through lots of pain and punishment when you know that ultimately all will be right or rewarded in some fashion. God and the markets is not a fashionable concept - I would never abuse what little connection I have with God to pray for profits. Yet that connection is what keeps people going in times of strife, in fox holes and commodity pits.


8. I believe the trade I'm in right now will be a loser:
This is my most powerful belief and asset as a trader. Most would be wannabes are certain they will make a killing on their next trade. These folks have been to some 'Pump 'em up, plastic coat their lives' motivational meeting where they were told to think positive thoughts. They took lessons in affirming their future would be great. They believe their next trade will be a winner.

Not me! I believe at the bottom of my core it will be a loser. I ask you this question - who will have their stops in and take right action, me or the fellow pumped up on an irrational belief he's figured out the market? Who will plunge, the positive affirmer or me?

If you have not figured that one out - I'll tell you; I will succeed simply because I am under no delusion that I will win. Accordingly, my action will be that of an impeccable warrior. I will protect myself in all fashion, at all times - I will not become run away with hope and unreality.


9. Your fortune will come from your focus - focus on one market or one technique:
A jack of all trades will never become a winning tradee. Why? Because a trader must zero in on the markets, paying attention to the details of trading without allowing his emotions to intervene.

A moment of distraction is costly in this business. Lack of attention may mean you don't take the trade you should, or neglect a trade that leads to great cost.

Focus, to me, means not only focusing on the task at hand but also narrowing your scope of trading to either one or two markets or to the specific approach of a trading technique.

Have you ever tried juggling? It's pretty hard to learn to keep three balls in the area at one time. Most people can learn to watch those 'details' after about 3 hours or practice. Add one ball, one more detail to the mess, and few, very few, people can make it as a juggler. It's precisely that difficult to keep your eyes on just one more 'chunk' of data.

Looks at the great athletes - they focus on one sport. Artists work on one primary business, musicians don't sing country western and Opera and become stars. The better your focus, in whatever you do, the greater your success will become.


10. When in doubt, or all else fails - go back to Rule One.
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SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
Intraday System

What we need: 3 EMA, 13 EMA, 39 SMA, Stochastic(8,3,4). If anybody wants then can use MACD also, for extra confirmation.
Time Frame: 5 min time frame. If you want dual confirmation, then use 10 min chart and 5 min. But my preliminary time frame is 5 min.
Our trigger is just like many system when 3 EMA crosses 13 EMA. I use 39 SMA as my base/trend/stop loss trigger.
Long Call:
39 SMA should be flat or incrementing. Incrementing 39 SMA is better than other flat. Now once 3 EMA cross 13 EMA from bellow, we are ready to take trade. After cross we will take position on a green body candle after the cross. Now we need to take care of strong momentum or we can catch some whipsaw. So I recommend that take position if stochastic shows reading more than 16. It is better to have value above 20 for extra confirmation. I avoid position if it decrements an coming bellow 20. Then wait for a turn.
Stop loss= Our stop loss will be above 39 SMA, and you can adjust it with your risk appetite. I use ADX for volatility calculation. But make sure that your stop loss is above 39 SMA.
Once our trade is favour of us we will increment our stop loss gradually. Only because I don’t want to make my wining trade a losing trade.
Exit Policy= I don’t want to exit by myself. I prefer to be in trade till that don’t hit my stop loss. But is better to square off some of our trade once 3 EMA cross 39 SMA. I saw that many times 3 EMA cross make final turn of the trade and sometimes it makes short term correction of the price for better rally.

Short call:
It is just reverse of long call. Everything will remain same only this time 39 SMA will be at top and 3 EMA and 13 EMA will cross it. Stochastic must be above 16 and incrementing.

May this system looks like very similar to the system you use, I don’t want to take any credit for that. I just have collected many system information and made this simple set up. I saw that this system is easy to use and it has many adjustment. Like Base trend follower 39 SMA, basic stop loss level calculation, sort term momentum recognition (3 and 39 cross).
I made back testing but I still looking for feedback from other members.

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Saravanan,
The stoploss mentioned for long is above 39 sma.
Pls confirm the stoploss for long is above 39 sma or below 39 sma on closing basis or any stoploss filter below 39 sma for long.
Pls mention stoploss for shorts.
anjanbm
 

SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
Saravanan,
The stoploss mentioned for long is above 39 sma.
Pls confirm the stoploss for long is above 39 sma or below 39 sma on closing basis or any stoploss filter below 39 sma for long.
Pls mention stoploss for shorts.
anjanbm
For long I think it is below 39 sma. The source thread Starter (Debarghya Mukherjee) did not mention any filter or closing basis stop
 

SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
P-1 or 2 Bars Entry


Today I will share an entry technique which is my favourite entry technique for getting into a trend move, Many times we either miss an entry in a trend move or we get out in between and we want to enter again with small, predefined and controlled risk.

The chart is attached. Here market was in uptrend, it opened with a gap up and after a bit of correction, the uptrend resumed and we want a low risk entry in this uptrend.

Here we locate a small pivot low. And our entry in long trade is above high of the bar which is one bar earlier to pivot low bar provided it is higher than the pivot low bar high, else we go 2 bars earlier.

I have marked 5 places where market gave us a low risk entry shown by blue lines. The stoploss is at the low of the pivot low bar....and you are hooked into a trend...enjoy the ride.

This is an entry method....it is NOT a stand alone trading system....please use it as an entry method only.

The method is based on the fact that an uptrend is made up of higher pivot highs and higher pivot lows and if we keep stops at a pivot low, it will not be hit in a strong uptrend, and if it is hit, it means that the uptrend is weak and we better get out instead of hanging around in a market which is not trending strongly. It is based on sound trading principle and hence this entry technique has more than 75-80 % success rate and is my favourite.....This entry is a great entry for adds even if we are already in trend. It gives low risk add points.

Mirror image to get into a downtrend.....

Smart_trade
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SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
Problem of Systems Hopping

Great Words from ST

Following is the pm describing a major problem all traders face when they are starting out in trading. I thought of replying to that pm ( with the sender's name removed for privacy and with his permission) so that many facing this problem may get some clues to work on. Here it goes :

Hello ST Sir,

Need your advice on a very serious issue which i m facing and it seems to be a biggest hurdle in my trading success.

Background :-

I have traded full time intraday during 2009/10 and left trading for two years after i joined my job in 2010,lost about Rs. 2 lacs.

From period of 2010 to Jan 2014 i read lot about trading methods ,MM and Risk management and paper traded few systems which seemed to be working well.

In March 2014 ,i left my job to trade full time with a capital of about 2 lacs,I take minimal possible risk as per money mangement principles with risk ranging from 0.5 to 1% on my capital and traded about 10 -15 methods in Cash scripts, NF Options and NF.

Problem :-

During the period of 8 months in 2014 after i started as full time ,i came across various systems via trading Forums ,Friends ,i use few of them trade with them but negate them soon once i hit 2-3 losses..This may be due to fact of not following system properly or system losses.

Finally leave that system and again find a new system and start trading it,I think my system hardly last for 20 days.

This has lead to a drawdown in my capital of about 15%.And equity curve is continuously falling ,leading to frustration and fear.

I use to work in 5 mins charts which does'nt seem to work well for me,Presently trying to build my system in 60 mins

Kindly advice me on :-

How to stick to a method and stop looking for new methods ,Shall i stop reading forums ,discussing with other trader friends ????

Totally confused which trading system will suit me ,Which TF is best for me ,Which instrument is best for me Cash ,options or NF??

Haw to develop a full confidence on my system in order to follow it blindly???

Advice me on exits ,I exit early leading to poor RR ratio?

Build a strong trading psychology to trade and expertise a method and kind of instrument i should stick ?

Thanks in Advance .

learnt a lot from your posts

This is a very common problem with all beginner traders. My views are as under :

1) Each successful trader has atleast 3-4 systems which are his best. They are best suited to his mindset. He can trade any of these systems and make money.They are also pretty good in different timeframes....they can trade 5 min bars and also trade 60 min swing trade positions simultanously.

2) We have to understand and accept that all systems will go through drawdowns and rough patches...but after the drawdowns comes a bright winning period. So if the system is a competent system with positive ecpectancy, the system will come out as a winner.

3) I always feel that jumping the systems is not a good sign. But that means that one must have a core system and he can always add few parameters based on what he learns further or what the changed market condition warrants.

4) Which method suits a trader is known by a simple test. You ask your mind which method you like the most. The chances are that you like it because that method suits your mindset. Each trader is different so a system which I like , the other trader may be miserable trading on it and vice versa.

5) You have to have full confidence on your system. It comes by backtesting and then trading it in real time. But remember that trading is performing art...no amount of studies of will make a classical dancer like Sanyukta Panigrahi or Sarod player like Ustad Amjad Ali khan to mesmerise a live show or a concert....it comes by hard work and years of Riyaaz or practice.Though basics of Sur,Taal is absolute must but all guys learning Sur and Taal dont mesmerise the concerts...Same goes with trading....I have seen many who spent months on backtesting a system and then abondons it and goes to another system and the process continues.So instead of professional traders, they become professional backtesters , system hoppers and systems collectors. The system need not be complicated stuff...simple support and resistances will make a great system .

6) Exits and the trade management is the most difficult ( and also vital ) part of any trade....I have posted few posts on exits in this thread...you may find them useful.

Hope you find the above useful...keep learning...adding new things to your trading but keep your core method same for a few years..

Smart_trade

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SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
Intraday Setup - Open/High/Low breakout pattern by Cubt

I have always been very comfortable when I traded a intraday method which is very simple, I dont like to monitor the chart always, I dont like to modify my orders for each wild intraday day move, I dont like to skip my lunch/tea break just because am doing intraday.

I use to trade NR7 Method for intraday, I was pretty much comfortable but I faced high draw downs, when I backtested the NR7 setup for 6 years of data the draw down was higher and there was no enough profits.

With this setup I believe I can trade comfortably without much stress during trading hours. I have back tested this method with EOD data in excel with high liquid stocks, results were very much satisfactory. Less draw down, winning percentage was high when compared to other intraday setups like NR7 method or ORB. Here's the trading method.

Entry for Long:

Note down previous day's High price and after market opens today, wait for the price to breakout yesterday's high and when broken check if Today's Open = Today's Low at that time, if Yes go long with Stop loss as today's Low price.

Entry for Short

Note down previous day's Low price and after market opens today, wait for the price to breakdown yesterday's low and when broken check if Today's Open = Today's High at that time, if Yes go Short with Stop loss as today's High price.

Stop Loss: As explained above

Trailing Stop Loss: Based on individual, I do not keep trailing stop loss. (any suggesstion would be helpful)

Target: Based on individual, I do not keep targets, i prefer exit at EOD. (any suggesstion would be helpful)

Exit: Exit at End Of the Day.

Gaps: During gap up, if today's Open price is way above yesterday's high and today's open = today's low, we go long @ Open. (for sure, we cant get open price, but idea is go long as soon as possible with day's low as stop loss).

Vice versa for gap down.

Thanks Cubt

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