Selling Straddle and strangle

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#11
TA helps to define market condition.First is Accumulation, -here its good to sell strangle.
Also for distribution - with more confidence we can sell Straddle.
On theory ,when Price just breaking out from a zone ,join with CALL buy, similarly after distribution,just early price break dn, join with Put buy.

As u know Maxm open interest OTM call helps to identify RESISTANCE, as well as Max OPEN INTEREST put, help to find probable SUPPORT , use it.

Some other idea : use of ADX, it guide u understand of trend ,adx> 30 , so strong trend , so buy option is better.

some one also use REL STRENGTH , but i dont its predictability in future trend continuation, apart from divergence to short at New top, so i dont use it.

Note : market in india will turn more efficient ,so ur learning will be more useful in future.By theoritical study on Synthetics by payoff curve (by drawing on graph paper) helps to remember easily
hope it helps
 
#12
TA helps to define market condition.First is Accumulation, -here its good to sell strangle.
Also for distribution - with more confidence we can sell Straddle.
On theory ,when Price just breaking out from a zone ,join with CALL buy, similarly after distribution,just early price break dn, join with Put buy.

As u know Maxm open interest OTM call helps to identify RESISTANCE, as well as Max OPEN INTEREST put, help to find probable SUPPORT , use it.

Some other idea : use of ADX, it guide u understand of trend ,adx> 30 , so strong trend , so buy option is better.

some one also use REL STRENGTH , but i dont its predictability in future trend continuation, apart from divergence to short at New top, so i dont use it.

Note : market in india will turn more efficient ,so ur learning will be more useful in future.By theoritical study on Synthetics by payoff curve (by drawing on graph paper) helps to remember easily
hope it helps
Oilman ji thanks for some great posts on options learning.

As you have started learning options, it will be very helpful if you start a new thread and post your learning step by step .It will be of great help to options learners. Please give it a thought.

Smart_trade
 
#13
@RiddhiPD

hey ridhipd,

i am a newbie to options lookin to make 2 to 2.5 percent a month

jus want you suggest me whether short strangle or short straddle is better

and whats ur opinion on iron condor

thx
 
#14
Hallo RiddhiPD,
u have created a nice thread,and soon option expert Dan will explain most ,and guide u in your journey as option trader.When i want to learnt he helped me a lot, by giving reference of books ,also a good thread exists in his name where he clarified many a thing for new option learner.
My background: one yr learning parttime options.Material as available from various referred book. Basic understanding from OTA option material.
Lecture listened from Basic + advance options from BSE. Online learning from finideas.
From my past i know stocktrading ,so for leverage i am learning options.
On certain condition i use them.
1] bullish view - trend expected more than 5days = buy call option
2] NOW ITS VERY HIGH ,NO FURTHER UP JUSTIFIABLE= sell call
3] strong dn continuation expected, but public yet not participated = buy put
4] slowly price drift stopped,no further big fall expected in nifty, buy atm call
.......................................
moderate trend condition expected, for bullish play ,use vertical bull call strategy-, for moderately bearish use vertical bear put debit strategy.

now i am learning well side ways(when both directional move dont exist as high probability) - its basically Timedecay and understanding VOLATILITY, with cyclicity, a comparison to put historical vol, with implied vol, to see expectation build up. So straddle on theory , but actually using strangle sell to eat premium. Yes strongly understanding validity of low predictive VOL zone ,with eating premium makes this trade.
.....................................
others theoritical aspect imp i see is synthetics, which may help to managing leg.
For me this much is actually helpful.
for my directional option trade, direction bias from TA
I have extremely thankful for your kind words.

As for comparing Historical vol with implied Vol and finding out- expectation build up-that part is extremely interesting and hope you may elaborate this aspect if you have time.I consider myself very weak in practical aspects,so any real or imaginary examples will help me.
Yes,use of Synthetics is also important and I am trying to find out more use of them in appropriate way.
I have also received online training from finideas and although happy they need to bring down cost of different courses otherwise it becomes extremely hard for new traders like me to do more than one.I will watch out for BSE courses.:thumb:
 
Last edited:
#15
TA helps to define market condition.First is Accumulation, -here its good to sell strangle.
Also for distribution - with more confidence we can sell Straddle.
On theory ,when Price just breaking out from a zone ,join with CALL buy, similarly after distribution,just early price break dn, join with Put buy.

As u know Maxm open interest OTM call helps to identify RESISTANCE, as well as Max OPEN INTEREST put, help to find probable SUPPORT , use it.

Some other idea : use of ADX, it guide u understand of trend ,adx> 30 , so strong trend , so buy option is better.

some one also use REL STRENGTH , but i dont its predictability in future trend continuation, apart from divergence to short at New top, so i dont use it.

Note : market in india will turn more efficient ,so ur learning will be more useful in future.By theoritical study on Synthetics by payoff curve (by drawing on graph paper) helps to remember easily
hope it helps
Extremely thankful for your help.:)

I will keep in mind use of ADX ,I have tried earlier but somehow didn't work out well and failed to interpret it in a correct way.

I use TA but the problem is it gives me a bias and therefore undue expectation which makes me hesitant to alter my decision and I end up loosing.I am already attending seminars and talking with more people t correct my shortcomings and trade better.

As for Market efficiency I agree with your statement but I also like to propose a point to consider.We retail trader will benefit most from if the market becomes more efficient but do you think higher power will let it? If you look Put Call volatility arbitrage ,the inefficiency in Indian option market gives deep pocket traders who has access to algo trade to profit without actually taking any risk.Only thing is higher STT.So,right now I am guessing someone is profiting from inefficiency.Lets see what happens.:D
 
#16
@RiddhiPD

hey ridhipd,

i am a newbie to options lookin to make 2 to 2.5 percent a month

jus want you suggest me whether short strangle or short straddle is better

and whats ur opinion on iron condor

thx
Bacche ka Jaan loge kya??:(

May be I will be in a place to give opinions after few years...:p

One thing I will say is if you are newbie( LIKE ME) then having a mind set that you will earn a fixed percentage and therefore you are entering credit spread may prove injurious to your health in the long run.:D

Imagine that you are at the top of Mountain and you want to go to Next Mountain.Now there is a Govt. made road which is long and winded and though there are holes and bumps, it will take you to the next mountain.[This is Equity]

While driving at it you decided, Eff it,this is taking too long - I wanna go faster and receive an early bird prize or something.:cool:

So you decided to take of your car from the road and straight down the slope.[THIS IS OPTION TRADING].The thing is unless you are already an excellent driver you will hit a tree and overturn your car.The chance of crash and burn is extremely high if you don't know your car and terrain you will be driving.

For me I am not excellent driver but I have a reasonable car which may take a bump or two.I am trying to learn car switches and gears before I drive my car straight downhill.:pLearning and knowing my car gives me a slightly better probability to reach safely to my destination with my limbs intact but there is NO GUARANTEE.

So friend,I am actually in no position to tell you anything at all.Keep an open eye and I hope many people will share their experiences here and you can learn from them.:thumb:
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#17
I have extremely thankful for your kind words.

As for comparing Historical vol with implied Vol and finding out- expectation build up-that part is extremely interesting and hope you may elaborate this aspect if you have time.I consider myself very weak in practical aspects,so any real or imaginary examples will help me.
Yes,use of Synthetics is also important and I am trying to find out more use of them in appropriate way.
I have also received online training from finideas and although happy they need to bring down cost of different courses otherwise it becomes extremely hard for new traders like me to do more than one.I will watch out for BSE courses.:thumb:
.......................................................................................
Since u learnt finideas, their explanation is better & simple.No need to join BSE.Listen free lecture of finideas, use their trial software.Practicing pay-off curve helps, i am giving some hints @ members discussion & soon DAN will give best suggestion as promised by him,we all eagerly waiting.
btw- finideas guy trade delta neutral, i trade on TA.For me useful strategy r already mentioned. High Vol strategy i learnt in OTA, it use hist vol chart, x-ing high band in high-low cyclic vol with implied vol,- based on TA direction bias trade, EXAMPLE = ta bias long, high vol =sell put,ta bias long,low vol= buy call.
hope it help
 
#18
Hi RiddhiPD

I did analyze your all questions and comments. I recognize that you have theoretical knowledge about options and option strategy trading but it seems that you really miss the practical part. Your questions do shout from every corner and all in all: You try to concentrate on too many points and things and there seems to be not even one single out worked trading plan for any option strategy.

Let me post this: No way to manage all what you ask for at once at the begin of any option trading career or as an option or option strategy new comer. You must cut down dramatically to just a few points and best to just one option strategy at the begin. An option strategy you will learn to handle under any market conditions with even converting it to an other one when needed. For this step you already will need a clever and worked out trading plan which is from you and is proved through live observation of the market and execution of the needed steps on the option side. If you have one of such in dept out worked trading plan and the prove that it works for you, then and only then you will start to concentrate on the next option strategy. So easy and slowly is what is asked for at the moment.

As you are asking for one option strategy which not needs your attention at all the time during the day, I am not sure how safe you will feel with naked shorts. If you want to sell a whole short option strategy at once, you are more into the direction of what you want.

Now as you mentioned "Short Straddle" and "Short Strangle" beside many other option strategies, both of them can do fine. How to trade them """"(Entry rules, time to expiration, strikes, market conditions, market expectations, adjustments, stop loss rules, exit the trade rules, used analyzing tools, and so on)?

There are various ways to do so and there is no best or worst. But just to understand and properly handling only the mentioned points in real live in the market trading, is far enough at the begin for one strategy. So again: If you can handle and make your self bullet proved in the market with just one option strategy, only then you will go for other option strategies. Guess the question about talking about an other four or five option strategy is cleared for the moment.

- Question: 1.Suppose I sold a strangle/straddle and Vola increases what can be done? Even when we avoid times when we are anticipating increased Vola ,there are times when Market suddenly moves (down 100 point in 15 minutes) and vola jumps up.What to do in that time?

Answer: As you have some kind of stop loss on each side, you should be protected against such moves. If IV increases steady and market moves steady into one direction, you close this leg or you adjust the leg by move it up or down, or you remove your size or you add a long option leg so that your short leg is protected. There are even some other ways to act here, finally it depends all on your individual trading plan and risk you can accept or want to take. If you want to convert in other strategies, then this again is an other topic which needs even deeper option strategy knowledge and experience. So I will not go deeper into this direction. I mean: The "Butterfly" you mentioned is already one of many of such possibilities to expand a "Short Straddle" and can be played in different ways.

- Question: 2.There are certain time when Vola probably will go up (e.g 2nd June RBI announcement) and come down after that. Now should I avoid that time altogether or sell just after Event like that.

Answer: Absolute your choice and no rules written in stones about this. It all depends on any specific trading plan worked out for such event trading and the risk you want accept.

- Question: 3.Is it right to avid Expiry Week? What are good strategies for Expiry week?

Answer: The same answer can be given here like in question two. Some love to trade the expiry week and others avoid it. Every strategy you understand in dept and know to handle in dept is a good one even for expiry weeks, regardless if "Short Straddles" or "Short Strangles" and many other strategies.

- Question: 4.Sometimes Volatility goes up for three to five days (April 20-24).Do I get out quickly or neutralizing Delta can help me through that time. Any Past experiences will help me.

Answer: If your break even is not touched or your stop loss can handle it in any way you use it and accept it, then no need to act. If your BE or stop loss levels are in danger, you act according to your worked out trading plan which includes all the points mentioned here """". If you want to neutralize it through delta hedging, you will need to add other legs or vice versa to adjust the delta. Different ways to do so. If you understand to do this under pressure and some times hectic market conditions, your choice and an other topic of difficulty to learn.

- Question: 5.If you neutralize Delta in a credit spread how often do you do that? like once a day or twice a day? or more?

Answer: If you even want to do this, then your trading plan and the given market moves and conditions do give you the road you drive. And you drive a car different then others do. So there is no once a day or twice a day rule. If you have a "Credit Spread" and market moves against it, you simple also can buy back the short leg or vise versa how ever you want to use the CS.

Final word:

I am clear you have a difficult journey in front of you. As told: If you can find a mentor in India which can teach you in a live going on market, so that you can discuss your queries with him ad hock, that would be surely one of the best helps you can have. But regardless if you have one or not, reduce the amount of topics you all want to work on at once, keep it more simple and concentrate on one, powerful option strategy with which you make real money under any given market conditions.

Take care / Dan
 
#19
@Dan,

Thanks for the detailed reply.I will be trying to cut short noises and come up with more detailed point wise trading plan and post it here.And I will be posting my observations and comments here also.Please feel free to correct me as I go along.:D
 

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