LIBRARY : Intraday Mini FLow

[NORBE_1958]

Regarding Filter

Entry +/-from Ist Bar for Nifty Futures but I am in the basis J chart and it shows only Nifty spot if so does that mean it converts to Future rates or should I look into Nifty Future charts and +/- 14 tomake the first entry

 

[TFL]

Regarding Filter

Entry +/-from Ist Bar for Nifty Futures but I am in the basis J chart and it shows only Nifty spot if so does that mean it converts to Future rates or should I look into Nifty Future charts and +/- 14 tomake the first entry

Its not ok to look at Nifty Spot chart and trade in Nifty Futures. For converting NIFTY Spot Price to Nifty Futures there is no concrete equations.

Please discuss such topics in nifty intraday miniflow live thread/EOD thread.

Haribird.

 

[sgovind2]

Hi

I am a newbie to this trade and am interested to understand this method. Can the seniors help me in getting started on this?
Thanks in advance.

 

[TFL]

Hi

I am a newbie to this trade and am interested to understand this method. Can the seniors help me in getting started on this?
Thanks in advance.

sgovind2,

Study the method text first and back test old charts and do paper trade for a few weeks.
Come to the live thread while you paper trade.

"Best Wishes."
Haribird.

 

[tony_marcus]

I have been following the live thread and visiting the library,while following the trades and the comments by seniors.Thus it is reassuring to have this thread to come back too,and look for answers to queries which may have arisen in my mind during the day.
Thank you Hari,thank you very much indeed.

 

[TFL]

UPDATES: New discussions from live thread and EOD thread
NF Trade 3rd March 2009​

May i suggest some changes here Hari ?

Till 11:00 bar, we are nor clear as to which is a first move and which is a second move so we keep larger moving filter on both sides and look to get in whichever side the trade triggers.

After pivot high and lows are formed we are all the way on small filter. Also moving filter's role is over after PH and PL formed . Market was taking a limping uomove and newer PH getting formed without triggering a long trade ( most of us are using small filter of 9 or 10 ,But if someone is using 7,then probably long trade will just trigger in 2:00 bar . Does not matter. This gets reversed in 3:00 bar on two critaria 1) Failure of breakout bar and cracking low of the breakout bar -small f or 2) On break of PL -small f.

Adds as per you suggested. One can add at 3:00 bar at various places or even at crack of 3 :00 WRB low -f

Saint sir will still add in the evening in his revision session.

Very well done Hari....

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

Saint's Replies to traders questions regarding the above trade​

Also Vineet, why wasnt 11.00 and 1.00 bar highs considered as pivots? If they were pivots then why werent entries at their highs+7 taken. Cuz all pivotal entries are ph+7. They were considered as Move 1 by yourself. Pls explain.

Move 1 is higher pivot highs and lows in an uptrend each newer high unable to take out our MovFil,everytime a new high is made,the Mov Fil is moved to the latest pivot high.

Today's trade:

BAR 2 taking out the lows of BAR 1,not taking out our filter.........Next bar,BAR 3,taking out the BAR 1 high but still not over the MovFil....We have had three bars so far.We are still without a clear cut Move 1 direction.Till BAR 10,very clear cut higher pivot highs and lows but not taking out our MovFil.............this signifies a weakness,the inability of NF to clearly make a trend move.

It also means that we are waiting for an opportunity to get short.......a pivot low break is enough reason for us to clearly see a Move 2,and short the breakdown.Here the filter is normal filter.

Exit in the last 5mins of the day.

Saint

Manoj,

The only explaination i can arrive at is, our MovFil kept moving higher and not getting filled. First at, 5 min bar high, then at 1st PH+14 then 2nd PH+14.
(what beats me is, I thought we always added 7 to PHs and not 14.)


After 11.00 bar, move 1 was in place. Therefore, short orders were put at days low-7, then 12.00 pl-7 then 13.30-7 (which got filled).

Vineet bhai... pls break ur silence. Comment on our clouds.

Amit.

Yes Amit....first para not in the brackets in post above...correct.Oh well,all correct,except the brackets part.....great going.

Saint

What I understood till date from Saint's method is that .. We apply moving filter only for First Move and it is BAR by BAR and not pivot to pivot ( but from today incidence it seems that there are few exceptions where we apply moving filter to pivot by pivot also)
As per my understanding, we do not apply moving filter to pivots or second move. We apply filter to new pivots once it is formed.

Correct,Manoj.....except one thing.

Pivot by Pivot move of MovFil:We apply this in the 60min Flow Threads.We have a Bar that takes out our pivot high not taking out our filter......next bar does it,we reverse the trade.If next bars don't do it,followed by a pivot formation,we merely raise our filter to the new pivot high +f.

Bar by Bar move of MovFil:We apply this in the Intraday MiniFlow.We have a Bar that forms,we want that next bar to take out the MovFil....If not,we want the next bar to do it,so on so forth.In between this process,a pivot or two may be formed....but the focus is on the bar by bar.

Slight difference in the two......important not to get confused esp.those who tarde both simultaneously.

All the best!
Saint

Sir,
One question... Why we are not considering the 2nd bar move( LH-LL than 1st bar )as first move? Thanks

Manoj,

It is not yet a Move....Basically till Bar 3 today,we had no clear cut move,however small.After which we had a Move....which we refer to as Move 1.

All the best!
Saint

Thanks for your nice and crystal clear explanation. I really appreciate the way you explain to us and you patience for it.
Just one doubt.......
Suppose we are still not in trade due to moving filter of first move, and in process, pivot forms , then we will apply Small filter for pivot crack to enter. Is it right? or is there any exception to this rule that even after pivot forms we keep applying moving filter (Bar to bar moving filter).
Hope I am able to convey what I want to Say.
Thanks

Great question......can always make out a person who wants to trade from a person who prefers to write a book on something...great going,manoj.

Taking your eg,we are in Move 1,not yet in trade due to the MovFil........we now need a sideways move that pivots and goes on to new highs for us to dump the MovFil and go on to Normal Filters.

Have a look at 14th Oct 2008.......We got a tail on BAR 1,BAR 3 takes out the low,but not our MovFil,then 2 more sideways bar.......we now have 5 sideways bars,we are not to wait to short below 14,thinking of Mov1 and Mov2..........you have a clear cut solid base,the breakdown-Normal Filter and you are in short.

Your 2nd part of the question....if you mean,a clear cut pivot has formed,do we wait with a MovFil any longer,no....then it is Normal Filter all the way.

Saint

Links:
From here:
http://www.traderji.com/day-trading...-miniflow-live-discussion-289.html#post283799

From here:
http://www.traderji.com/day-trading...oday-saints-method-post283753.html#post283753

Special thanks to Mr. Saint.
Thanks to Amit & Manoj and others for the discussions.

Haribird.

 

[TFL]

4th March 200​

Originally Posted by myvineet
saint sir just some queries:

1) if we pivot made during move 1( suppose upward)..will we enter at pivot high + mov fil OR pivot high + normal fil ?

till now i use normal fil for pivot but today from your answer i got an impression that if we got pivot during move 1 still we use mov fil from there.

It depends on the quality of the pivot..........Think we all know by now,where we would say that Move 1 is in progress.The question is:If we pivot within Move 1,should we not enter with normal filters instead of MovFil.....and the answer to that one is the quality of the pivot.

Have a look at 18th Sept,2007........Bar 2 does not take out Bar 1 past the Moving Filter and then corrects......4 pullback bars not breaking the low of the day and then a resumption in the move.....we are not waiting here with a Moving Filter.We are waiting with our Normal Filter,the triggerring of which is enough for us to ride the move.

Imagine another example where BAR 2 takes out the high of BAR 1,and then fails to take out the Moving Filter,and goes sideways 5 bars,yummy.....we are in long with our Normal Filter.

Have a look at 6th Feb 2009.......are there pivots,yes there are......but can you see the difference?Because of the Moving Filter,no trades triggerred that day.

Therefore,in summary,.............all Move 1's work with Moving Filter,all the while raising our stop loss to the previous pivot low to hit Move 2 hard and with a Normal Filter.The exception is when there is a clear cut pivot,and if we get one,we are getting in with a Normal Filter.

2) looking at today's high if we get 11.00 bar as LH\LL.then we rev at 11.00 bar high +normal fil OR 10.00 bar high + normal fil

am i right in reversing at 11.00 bar high + normal fil ?

regards

vineet

Ouch,Vineet......sorry,my friend,don't get you on this one.Just make it a bit more clearer for me.........Thanks.

Saint

another example where Move 1 is triggerred,then we go sideways multiple bars.......and then we use our Normal Filters to get us in on the breakout is
13th Feb 2009.

Saint

Another example :11th Feb 2009.Same thing.....clear cut pivot and a breakout from there,go with Normal Filters after a Move 1.

Saint

And another one on the 9th Feb 2009...........let me hunt down a few like yesterday.

Saint

Links:
From here:
http://www.traderji.com/day-trading...-miniflow-live-discussion-297.html#post284095

Thank you,
Haribird.

 

[TFL]

An MM/PS Question and Answers​

Harsh, Hari, Amit,
If a person is short with one lot only, and no add due to MM, what you will suggest now. To book profit or to remain in trade and reverse as per SAR?

manojkch,

You cannot manage well with 1 lot. Better option is to go with 3 lots and books by 1/3 parts. 2566 support area was a good point to book 1/3rd.

For now with one lot...the choice to book or hold till reverse is your choice.

Haribird.

Manoj,

Agreed with Hari a few posts back........better than that is to short with 3 lots Minifty instead.The reason behind that is rather simple,based on an old trading quote.....Keep your losses small,and ride the profits.....we want to get in with 1 lot(example),and if stopped out,okay......and if not stopped out,to add and add again.

So that we ride on more when things go in our favour,and get stopped out on less when it doesn't.

Saint

 

[TFL]

5th March 200​

Saint, Rajendra, Vineet,

For Jan 19th, the members entered long at 2836+7 at 12.00 bar high as it was a pivot).

Soon enough, Saint said that it was not a trade in the post:

http://www.traderji.com/day-trading-...tml#post268718

My doubt:
Yesterday, leaders insisted that if its a pivot then use of sf was okay. However, the above mentioned trade is incorrect. My doubt is, on Jan 19th Saint did not mention the reason why this is not a trade. I was left guessing.

My guess: Saint was trying to say that unless it is a range bound case or if its a reversal only then use sf. Else use MF, pivot high or not.

So I earnestly request that Rajendra, Vineet, Saint please step in and clarify this. There are several other in the forum who have similar doubts and suggestion too. Please feel free to opine.

Amit

http://www.traderji.com/attachments...intraday-miniflow-live-discussion-19jan09.png

PS: Check the link for the chart.

Pivots are basically points of reversal. So, we are looking at an entry on the break of this point. Now when we are talking about the 1st entry, we use bigger filter for taking a trade on the basis of bar breakout.

Now coming to why bigger filter was used in the above trade. As mentioned pivots are points of reversal, so when the pivot is broken ideally we should already have had Move1 and Move2, and small filter should be sufficient for taking an entry on the basis of pivot break. But for this, the moves should be very clear and there should be clear pivot.

But when we are talking about the above day, we had a bullish bar, followed by 2 or more small bearish bars. but these bearish bars were essentially sort of inside bars only. So, overall we had a limp upmove. Though we had pivots because of these bearish bars, but these bearish bars never looked like a downmove.

I hope this makes things clearer.

Links:
From here:
http://www.traderji.com/day-trading...trades-today-saints-method-49.html#post284654

Thank you,
Haribird.

 

[pleaseharsh]

hari got a doubt regarding the 3rd march trade ...
the 6 point .."short triggered at crack of pivot low"
we had short triggered at bearish bar low prev to move2 breakdown bar...though not much diff between low of pl and that bearish bar ,practically we had to go short by the low of that bearish bar .....