Indian Brokers offering Algo Trading to Individual Traders(Reposting)

Algo

Active Member
#1
Hi,
I have been getting messages regarding brokers names cost etc. Re-posting it to the relevant discussion topic of Algo & Automated Trading

I have been doing fully automated trading for the last one year and have used all the vendors and three different brokers. I have accumulated a list of brokers offering Algo Trading capabilities and vendors they are associated with:

Vendors:
1. Symphony (www.symphonyfintech.com)
2. Omnesys(http://www.omnesys.com/)
There are some other name s but cannot vouch for them as never used it.

Brokers:
1. Religare - Symphony (www.religare.com)
2. ShareKhan- Symphony (www.sharekhan.com)
3. Zerodha- Omnesys (http://www.zerodha.com/)
4. Mastertrust- Omnesys (http://mastertrust.co.in)
5. Phillip Capital- Symphony (http://www.phillipcapital.in/)
6. Destimoney Securities - Symphony (www.destimoney.com)
7. Composite Edge - Symphony (www.compositedge.com)
8. GRD Securities - Symphony (www.grdgroupz.com)
9. Sykes & Ray Equities- Symphony (www.sre.co.in)

All the brokers are having their own target market and both the vedors have their own capabilities:

1. Omnesys plugin/NEST- BENEFITS: It is a great software and beats symphony in the number of installations. It is very cheap (however if you include the total charges in a year's cycle, icluding data feed charges, hardware charges, brokerage etc. it comes near to symphony itself).

Some drawbacks include, custom strategy development will not be done by Omnesys itself but by other free lancers which result in lots of errors and headache. Also, Omnesys Plugin only sends the orders directly to exchange. With a trader like me who extracts maximum profits out of triggers generated from AmiBroker by custom bracket orders, trailing stop loss profit booking etc. it is not advisable because they cannot provide it.
Update: They are now bought by Thompson Reuters so not sure about future costing, products etc.

2. Symphony- BENEFITS They have another great software presto which is customizable to the T. They seem to be winning the war of signing up with most retail brokers from omnesys and their development team develops the logic themselves. They also have complete open APIs if a trader is a programmer himself(). They can connect their algo platform with TradeStation, AmiBroker, MS Excel, MetaTrader etc with custom execution logic. Also, one thing, They can automatically send orders to multiple client accounts.
DRAWBACKS They seem to be expensive to some traders in first look, however, the custom offerings they offer and guidance given including paperwork, connection to broker, live feed from exchange via leaseline/vsat only they can do so. Another drawback is the development time they take. They take one month for developing any strategy which i believe is the biggest headache. Also, except composite edge, their other partner brokers like sharekhan or GRD has attitude issues and quite expensive.

Update: They have slashed their pricing for CompositeEdge

SUMMARY:
If you are a small trader doing turnover between 2lac to 50 lac daily you should go ahead and immediately signup with Zerodha or mastertrust (You anyways will not have an execution logic to run with AmiBroker triggers)

If you a trader with turnover more than 50 lac per day and want custom Stoploss, Profit Target, trading in multiple client accounts etc., immediately sign up with symphony.

So let me know if i can claim myself to be an expert in automated trading of India. Personally i am passionate about auto trading and want to become superstar like other people in Traderji with more than 20 greenblocks or whatever that is.
 
#2
Thanks! This is a great list!

Does anyone have a review of Interactive Brokers in India? They offered a full API in Java/C++ and very fast execution in US. Its one of the largest brokers globally, and they have their own infrastructure without going through a broker and an API/infrastructure provider separately.
 
#3
Thanks! This is a great list!

Does anyone have a review of Interactive Brokers in India? They offered a full API in Java/C++ and very fast execution in US. Its one of the largest brokers globally, and they have their own infrastructure without going through a broker and an API/infrastructure provider separately.
i dont have a review of their algo trading setups and whether they have some dedicated ats help desk

but their brokerages are high . margin is high . and some entry conditions also for opeing an account . they have their own oms

regards
 

jagankris

Well-Known Member
#4
Just posting what I came to know about Symphony/Omnesys Nest API.

Regarding the costs of the platform.

For a retail trader to have the platform with Symphony.

1.One time engagement fees - 25000 rs.
2.Implementation charges - Approximately 2 lakhs.
3.Monthly charges - 7500 Rs.

Limitation with selection of broker - composite while other cheaper flat brokers are available.

Advantages - Not just automating the charting buy/sell signals.
Position sizing - Scaling in out.
Multiple strategy and multi security execution with Dashboard.

While with NestPlus Api
125 rs / per month.
Just automating the buy sell signals with Ami is possible.
Rest entire algo platform has to be built.
 
#5
@Algo

An excellent study of the brokers! Yes, I think you qualify as an expert.

Though I posted several times in TJ but it bears repetition I believe-the issue of risk management, especially for people using AMI and N+, like me who want to go FULL auto way.

1) how these brokers manage slippage
2) how these brokers manage missed trades due to other reasons not due to the trader
3) how these brokers manage price mismatch (AMI signal and trade)
4) how these brokers manage wrong signals occasionally sent by AMI
5) how these brokers manage lot size mismatch in exit and entry trades (2 lots ordered, 1 traded but 2 squared)

Hope no one would guillotine me for the nagging repeats:mad: After all, these events produce substantial erosion of profits, don't they?

PS: my broker has just given me an API(?) to mend a part of the fence which I will start testing on Monday. They say this may reduce some mismatches significantly:thumb:
 

jagankris

Well-Known Member
#6
@Algo

An excellent study of the brokers! Yes, I think you qualify as an expert.

Though I posted several times in TJ but it bears repetition I believe-the issue of risk management, especially for people using AMI and N+, like me who want to go FULL auto way.

1) how these brokers manage slippage
2) how these brokers manage missed trades due to other reasons not due to the trader
3) how these brokers manage price mismatch (AMI signal and trade)
4) how these brokers manage wrong signals occasionally sent by AMI
5) how these brokers manage lot size mismatch in exit and entry trades (2 lots ordered, 1 traded but 2 squared)

Hope no one would guillotine me for the nagging repeats:mad: After all, these events produce substantial erosion of profits, don't they?

PS: my broker has just given me an API(?) to mend a part of the fence which I will start testing on Monday. They say this may reduce some mismatches significantly:thumb:
@Sandip,

Did you mean to say "How the algo's

1) Manage the slippage" ?
2) Manage missed trades ?
3) Manage Price mismatch ?
4) Wrong signals sent by ami ? --- what do you mean by wrong signals ?
5) Manage lot size mismatch in exit and entry trades ?

Can you pls tell your Broker's name who offers API.

TIA.
 
#7
@Jagan

AMI/NEST/N+ users don't have a way to address the issues I mentioned. We have to twiddle our thumb and see the looming losses and hurriedly adjust everything manually. Some systems do not care for N+ and place the orders directly, even MCX, to the OMS. These are perhaps the (COM?) APIs which sit between AMI and NEST Trader and ideally can handle all issues I mentioned by simply talking (passing variables and parameters) to each other. If an order is missed, it will adjust before sending the next order, if a price mismatch has occurred it can readjust and if necessary cancel both legs of the trade.

The possibilities are enormous. For a carefully designed system AND particularly if it is "hosted" by some agency (your trade goes on all day at his computer while you holiday at Utkamand or the USA and have left your laptop behind), it should be able to earn you money by the minute (if your strategy was good :)). The host has to be honest. He should not steal your strategy. This is one more area in encryption which programmers have to solve. No fear of net and power outages or a breakdown in hardware or virus attacks in your computer. For old people like me, it would be like God-send.

Unfortunately most traders and brokers are unaware/unwilling to take the shot. It is nothing short of a tragedy that while traders (97%) lose money, the issues are ignored by most brokers/developers as if they didn't exist. A person knowing his way in trading and with good knowledge in C++/Javascript/.Net will do it in 1 week max.

You asked for the name of the broker, but I rather think I should not disclose it at this stage because many would take it as promotional. Please wait for some more time. Apart from the present patch up they have given to me, they are on developing a COM API which should be powerful. If I find it good I will tell not only you, but the world, and not care who thinks what.:thumb:
 

jagankris

Well-Known Member
#8
@Jagan

AMI/NEST/N+ users don't have a way to address the issues I mentioned. We have to twiddle our thumb and see the looming losses and hurriedly adjust everything manually. Some systems do not care for N+ and place the orders directly, even MCX, to the OMS. These are perhaps the (COM?) APIs which sit between AMI and NEST Trader and ideally can handle all issues I mentioned by simply talking (passing variables and parameters) to each other. If an order is missed, it will adjust before sending the next order, if a price mismatch has occurred it can readjust and if necessary cancel both legs of the trade.

Apart from the present patch up they have given to me, they are on developing a COM API which should be powerful. If I find it good I will tell not only you, but the world, and not care who thinks what.:thumb:
Dear Sandip,

Thanks a lot.

I am clear that Nest+ API will act as an interface between Amibroker and Nest Trader and can handle orderplacing,ordermodification,ordercancelling,order Status - re order placing,TSL,Cancel Pending orders etc.

I dont know much about COM -
But how can a COM API can be helpful and unless and untill the functionalities of Nesttrader is exposed ?

Is it possible to scale in/scale out positions in Amibroker dynamically ?
Or
Is it possible to increase the trade size each time the previous trade fails ?

In short how can Ami can act as a full fledged Algo trading platform ?
or just automation of trading signals are possible with Ami.
 
#9
Dear Sandip,

Thanks a lot.

I am clear that Nest+ API will act as an interface between Amibroker and Nest Trader and can handle orderplacing,ordermodification,ordercancelling,order Status - re order placing,TSL,Cancel Pending orders etc.

I dont know much about COM -
But how can a COM API can be helpful and unless and untill the functionalities of Nesttrader is exposed ?

Is it possible to scale in/scale out positions in Amibroker dynamically ?
Or
Is it possible to increase the trade size each time the previous trade fails ?

In short how can Ami can act as a full fledged Algo trading platform ?
or just automation of trading signals are possible with Ami.
I am personally not savvy in N+ but can it cancel pending orders automatically? For example, if an order signal passed from AMI has remained pending say for 2 mins, can it be programmed to cancel it now? Perhaps you need to write some lines for that?

I believe in AMI no scaling or size modification is possible. But please share, if you can, any new info in this regard.

AMI has not yet become a full scale auto trading oriented environment. We may have to wait for some considerable time.
 

jagankris

Well-Known Member
#10
I am personally not savvy in N+ but can it cancel pending orders automatically? For example, if an order signal passed from AMI has remained pending say for 2 mins, can it be programmed to cancel it now? Perhaps you need to write some lines for that?

I believe in AMI no scaling or size modification is possible. But please share, if you can, any new info in this regard.

AMI has not yet become a full scale auto trading oriented environment. We may have to wait for some considerable time.
Nestplus exposes CancelOrder function.
If a Order tracking system is in place with a standalone database then it is possible to do cancel order but with Amibroker I am not sure how to keep track of the order status for a period of 2 minutes and then cancel the order.

This limitation forces one to use Market order or IOC (Immediate or cancel order).

Regarding size modification I will check and get back.
 

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