I require Help?
- Thread starter mahmeds2000
- Start date
Hello Friends
Again need some clarification. Don't know whom to approach for this situation.
Today I had put buy stop orders(market) for BankIndia @ 100.4 when it was trading at around 99.4. Strangely my order got filled @100.8 at 11.27.
I am attaching the zoomed version of the Chart from NSE for the period that clearly shows that price never reached 100.8 during that period. Or, you may check the price of the scrip on any site for the period 11:20 AM and after.
Is this some floor manipulation or something other than this? I did not loose much because of my small position. But surely it has forced me to beleive that things are not going normally and there are surely a lot of manipulation.
Can some one suggest what I should be doing in this case?
Any help please.
Best Regards
Coool
Again need some clarification. Don't know whom to approach for this situation.
Today I had put buy stop orders(market) for BankIndia @ 100.4 when it was trading at around 99.4. Strangely my order got filled @100.8 at 11.27.
I am attaching the zoomed version of the Chart from NSE for the period that clearly shows that price never reached 100.8 during that period. Or, you may check the price of the scrip on any site for the period 11:20 AM and after.
Is this some floor manipulation or something other than this? I did not loose much because of my small position. But surely it has forced me to beleive that things are not going normally and there are surely a lot of manipulation.
Can some one suggest what I should be doing in this case?
Any help please.
Best Regards
Coool
Attachments
hi,
its nothing to do with the system. its more to do how the charts are programmed. the nse charts are not tick charts. but rather they record prices after a certain interval. just check a script with heavy volume (i checked satyam). you will find that the prices are recorded at an interval of 4 seconds. so if a price is recorded at 10 am the next price will be recorded 4 second later leaving behind any transaction in between.
in your case, if you look at the charts there is a spurt around the time you mentioned and theres every possibility your stoploss order got executed, while the charts, not being tick charts, didn't record the same.
cheers,
jdm.
its nothing to do with the system. its more to do how the charts are programmed. the nse charts are not tick charts. but rather they record prices after a certain interval. just check a script with heavy volume (i checked satyam). you will find that the prices are recorded at an interval of 4 seconds. so if a price is recorded at 10 am the next price will be recorded 4 second later leaving behind any transaction in between.
in your case, if you look at the charts there is a spurt around the time you mentioned and theres every possibility your stoploss order got executed, while the charts, not being tick charts, didn't record the same.
cheers,
jdm.
Thanks JDM.
May be u are right. I have this doubt because, i was observing tick by tick data at India bulls PIB. I had again taken a long position @ 99.2 and had put a stop loss at 98.8. Both of my orders (stop loss and initial long orders) were executed almost at the same time. That is a buy order @ 100.8 and a sell order @ 98.8. There is hardly a difference of 30 seconds between them. and price didnot fluctuate that much.
Anyways another lesson learnt .
strong mental stop loss orders are better than these stop loss market order in these volatile mkt.
Best Regards
Coool
May be u are right. I have this doubt because, i was observing tick by tick data at India bulls PIB. I had again taken a long position @ 99.2 and had put a stop loss at 98.8. Both of my orders (stop loss and initial long orders) were executed almost at the same time. That is a buy order @ 100.8 and a sell order @ 98.8. There is hardly a difference of 30 seconds between them. and price didnot fluctuate that much.
Anyways another lesson learnt .
strong mental stop loss orders are better than these stop loss market order in these volatile mkt.Best Regards
Coool
munchikana said:
Dear Ahmed,
Whatever I have read about "intrinsic value" of share, I am writing here. I may be partially right and I may be wrong on some aspects. If I am wrong on any aspect, I give an open invitation to all members of this forum to correct the portions where I have gone wrong. My sources of information are very limited.
Calculation of intrinsic value of a share looks nice only as a concept and according to me it is neither practicable nor advisible. First the theory part.
Intrinsic value means, intrinsic value of the company. In simple terms, how much the company is really worth if you were asked to buy it outright today. That brings the question, how to value the company? Is it the value of its land, plant and machienary? Shall we include the raw materials, stocks in trade? What about the investments made by the company in other companies and other subsidieries? What about the debts owned to the company and debts owned by the company to others? Should we include all of them in our calculation? How do you value the brand value of the products that are sold by the company? Problems do not end here. If the company is in an expansion mode, how much the new project would contribute to the balance sheet of the company? I hope now you realise that these are the only sample questions posed by me on the topic. These questions make it clear that it not our cup of tea. So if you are able to arrive at the actual figure of the worth of the company, then you will have to divide it by the existing equity capital. That will give the actual value of the per share of the company as on today. But wait. Market is not discounting the past. Market is always the future growth. So you must be able to forcast the future growth as well in your calculations. After doing all these calculations, you will actually know what is the company really worth for and this figure must be equally divided by the equity capital. That is the intrinsic value of the share of that company. If the share is quoting below that intrinsic value, you are going to buy it. If it is quoting far above it, you are going to sell it.
Limitations with ordinary people like me are
(1) Except the annual reports we do not have any other information about the financials of the company especially its future plans.
(2) Most of the annual reports are window dressed. I suggest you to read notes prepared by the auditor on the accounts of the company in the annual report. You will know how much under provisioning is there. You will also get some idea as to how the profits have been infalted. Sometimes, these people make such a magic that even loss making company is shown as a profit making company.
(3) In some balance sheets, plants and machinaries are revalued so as to boost the reserves. However, in some balance sheets, they are valued at their cost minus depriciation.
(4) Land is usually valued at its acquisition cost. You may note that some of these companies have acquired very important places in cities long time ago. If they are still shown at their acquisition value, then it will be a gross understatement. Just to give a real life example, I am told that nearly 75% branches of Syndicate Bank are operating in their own premises (not in rented premises). Almost all of them were acquired several decades ago. Even now also, these propeorties are shown at thier acquision cost in the balance sheet. I donot have a copy of balance sheet, if you have one, you may verify it. The real market value of these proerties is worth far in excess of the share capital of Syndicate Bank. Now tell me, how do you value this?
What I am trying to point out is that there are very many variables in calculating the intrinsic value of the company. Further we are having our own limitaions also. I may value one asset at xxx rupees. But you may value it at yyy rupees. What I view as an excellent opportunity may be a foolish adventure in your opinion.
I hope I have not created more doubts in your mind than you originally had
Whatever I have read about "intrinsic value" of share, I am writing here. I may be partially right and I may be wrong on some aspects. If I am wrong on any aspect, I give an open invitation to all members of this forum to correct the portions where I have gone wrong. My sources of information are very limited.
Calculation of intrinsic value of a share looks nice only as a concept and according to me it is neither practicable nor advisible. First the theory part.
Intrinsic value means, intrinsic value of the company. In simple terms, how much the company is really worth if you were asked to buy it outright today. That brings the question, how to value the company? Is it the value of its land, plant and machienary? Shall we include the raw materials, stocks in trade? What about the investments made by the company in other companies and other subsidieries? What about the debts owned to the company and debts owned by the company to others? Should we include all of them in our calculation? How do you value the brand value of the products that are sold by the company? Problems do not end here. If the company is in an expansion mode, how much the new project would contribute to the balance sheet of the company? I hope now you realise that these are the only sample questions posed by me on the topic. These questions make it clear that it not our cup of tea. So if you are able to arrive at the actual figure of the worth of the company, then you will have to divide it by the existing equity capital. That will give the actual value of the per share of the company as on today. But wait. Market is not discounting the past. Market is always the future growth. So you must be able to forcast the future growth as well in your calculations. After doing all these calculations, you will actually know what is the company really worth for and this figure must be equally divided by the equity capital. That is the intrinsic value of the share of that company. If the share is quoting below that intrinsic value, you are going to buy it. If it is quoting far above it, you are going to sell it.
Limitations with ordinary people like me are
(1) Except the annual reports we do not have any other information about the financials of the company especially its future plans.
(2) Most of the annual reports are window dressed. I suggest you to read notes prepared by the auditor on the accounts of the company in the annual report. You will know how much under provisioning is there. You will also get some idea as to how the profits have been infalted. Sometimes, these people make such a magic that even loss making company is shown as a profit making company.
(3) In some balance sheets, plants and machinaries are revalued so as to boost the reserves. However, in some balance sheets, they are valued at their cost minus depriciation.
(4) Land is usually valued at its acquisition cost. You may note that some of these companies have acquired very important places in cities long time ago. If they are still shown at their acquisition value, then it will be a gross understatement. Just to give a real life example, I am told that nearly 75% branches of Syndicate Bank are operating in their own premises (not in rented premises). Almost all of them were acquired several decades ago. Even now also, these propeorties are shown at thier acquision cost in the balance sheet. I donot have a copy of balance sheet, if you have one, you may verify it. The real market value of these proerties is worth far in excess of the share capital of Syndicate Bank. Now tell me, how do you value this?
What I am trying to point out is that there are very many variables in calculating the intrinsic value of the company. Further we are having our own limitaions also. I may value one asset at xxx rupees. But you may value it at yyy rupees. What I view as an excellent opportunity may be a foolish adventure in your opinion.
I hope I have not created more doubts in your mind than you originally had
Thanks a lot for giving such a good information and spending your valueable time for writing over here. Now i got the things i don't have doubt now. i got it that it requires lot of work to find the inrinsik value of a share. for simple if i calculate the inrinsic value total expenditure / total no of share then it is ok or not. Also i have on question How to time the market? i always listen timing the market is difficult. Any member can give the Ans.
Thanks again for giving reply and sorry for the late reply.
Thanks in advance
wrgrds
Ahmed
Hi all,
I require the help of senior, i have three quetion
1) How speculator manipulate the price of the share?
2) Suppose a XYZ company trading with no bid and offer quantity and price of the share is 30. If some one bid for only 5 (or say 1) quantity with bid price 40(remember the price if the share is 30 only and bid is 40). What will happen in this condition? (Is price of the share increase if any is agree to sell on 40?)
and the third one
3) How to time the market?
I am not able to get the answer of this question so came here i know here will get the Answer so please help me. As I require Help?
thanks in Advance
wrgrds
Ahmed
I require the help of senior, i have three quetion
1) How speculator manipulate the price of the share?
2) Suppose a XYZ company trading with no bid and offer quantity and price of the share is 30. If some one bid for only 5 (or say 1) quantity with bid price 40(remember the price if the share is 30 only and bid is 40). What will happen in this condition? (Is price of the share increase if any is agree to sell on 40?)
and the third one
3) How to time the market?
I am not able to get the answer of this question so came here i know here will get the Answer so please help me. As I require Help?
thanks in Advance
wrgrds
Ahmed
I do not think total expenditure/total no. of shares method is quite right for calculating intrinsic value of the share. See calculating the value of share has little to do with expenditure incurred by the company. To the best of my information, I have not heard any method which uses total expenditure incurred by the company as a parameter (or as one of the parameters) to calculate the value of the share of that company.
How to time the market? If any one knows it, please tell me also. I have no idea.
How to time the market? If any one knows it, please tell me also. I have no idea.
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