How about SIP in stocks for long term?

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#11
Can you please tell which is a "good" mutual fund ? How to define what is good ? Does past performance of the fund guarantee fabulous returns ?
If I know its good, then I would buy loads of tat fund instead of any other share or etf

Secondly, index fund is different from etf. It has mf charges which doesn't apply to etf.
1) Well you are disregarding everything i said. I already gave many links in first post which have links to good Mutual funds. They and many more have consistently beaten indices for over a decade and some for 20 bloody years .
Your reply seems to imply that the list of mutual funds that beat index is random and unpredictable but if you actually look, almost all fund houses have many that beat index in long term. All you need to do is make a list of 3-4 funds that have done well over long term and have stable team. Dont run after 1 year toppers.

Nothing is guaranteed in equity but i guess its safe to assume they will continue to do so untill they stop. And when they stop we can invest in index.

2) Doesnt matter etf/fund. Maybe ETF has less expenses ( i dont know ). ETF cannot beat its own index by defination. It will have some tracking error and certainly some costs. So it will lag the index little, certainly wont outperform.
When the funds have beaten the index itself, the question of expenses is irrelevant. From here, Nifty Bees has 29.3, 18.8, 10.5 annualized returns for 1,3,5 years. UTI opp has given 39.6, 21.30, 15.65. Others have similarly outperformed their respective indices. UTI opp is low volatility largecap fund. More diversified funds will give even more returns over long term.
If you cannot fathom the difference, i cannot help you.

Again, its your money - the performance difference is huge. Dont be blind and look at the numbers. I already gave list of MFs in my first post. You can use those or look at the other links.

Thats all i will write for now unless you actually read the info that i gave.
Instead of making effort to read and understand what i wrote/linked or atleast giving some evidence of your opinion, you are giving generic statements.
I had another conversation with another guy over PMS vs mutual funds and he too did same ( Eventually he resorted to abusive language :) )
Have a good weekend ...
 

aryan.

Active Member
#12
Don't blindly listen to his advice, when he analysed Opto Circuits and gave the recommendation to buy the stock, lot of his followers bought the stock and then had to suffer big loss.

I would say if you cannot study stocks yourself then invest some money in good mutual funds as well as ETF like Nifty Bees.
 

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#13
Don't blindly listen to his advice, when he analysed Opto Circuits and gave the recommendation to buy the stock, lot of his followers bought the stock and then had to suffer big loss.

I would say if you cannot study stocks yourself then invest some money in good mutual funds as well as ETF like Nifty Bees.
1) I dont blindly listen to anyone. I dont even follow him or his stocks. But the article is good and makes sense and it does not invalidate anything that i said.

2) Opto circuit can happen. They apparently messed up and didnt get money for their products but who knows what really happened. Public got massacred and how the promoters handled it is very dubious. i lost money too and could not sell because i refused to believe it ( got recommendation from Equitymaster). Finally sold it at ~22 ( bought avg ~100). That episode opened my eyes on what can happen. There are many stocks where such stories repeat and promoters/operators cartel loot people.
Anyway, i also bought SRF and that has done well and am still holding. That has also shown what else can happen. You cannot judge him by 1 stock. I dont follow his stocks so i cant say - i just got some good reads in his site.

3) Yes, i also say that unless you know what you are doing invest in Mutual Funds. But I believe investing in Nifty Bees for long term is foolish and i already gave reasons and evidence as to why.
 

aryan.

Active Member
#14
1) I dont blindly listen to anyone. I dont even follow him or his stocks. But the article is good and makes sense and it does not invalidate anything that i said.

2) Opto circuit can happen. They apparently messed up and didnt get money for their products but who knows what really happened. Public got massacred and how the promoters handled it is very dubious. i lost money too and could not sell because i refused to believe it ( got recommendation from Equitymaster). Finally sold it at ~22 ( bought avg ~100).
Wow, that is a big loss.

I am taking this off topic but can you please share why did you invest in Opto Circuit in the first place, just on the recommendation from EquityMaster or you studied the stock on your own?
 

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#15
Wow, that is a big loss.

I am taking this off topic but can you please share why did you invest in Opto Circuit in the first place, just on the recommendation from EquityMaster or you studied the stock on your own?
Opto was years ago, i just blindly invested on EM recommendation. Also read about it in some magazine. I dont look at EM now, their followups were dissappointing in many stocks. Dont regret it, made much more in SRF to compensate. Have few good people in moneycontrol instead who are more reliable ...

I am no good with Equity research, Dont have any knoweldge and also dont have any inclination to read. Its a lot of effort and developing skill will take time. Even after that there is no guarantee that i will beat Good Mutual Funds.
I rather read other stuff and leave investing to Mutual Funds. Still have some stocks but they are limited part of portfolio with hopes of another SRF :). Its probably silly gamble but working well so far.

Again, i dont say avoid stocks, just that for most people it makes sense to use MF instead.
 

prst

Well-Known Member
#16
Thanks for the useful info bro . Agree with your comments on returns from MF. Could you please point me to some link that compares the costs involved in ETFs and MF (entry, exit loads, brokerage). Should we hold on to MFs for at least 3 years, to avoid long term capital gains tax ?
 

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#17
Thanks for the useful info bro . Agree with your comments on returns from MF. Could you please point me to some link that compares the costs involved in ETFs and MF (entry, exit loads, brokerage). Should we hold on to MFs for at least 3 years, to avoid long term capital gains tax ?
1) I dont follow ETFs, so i am not sure of their costs. But the company itself should have details of their products in their homepage. Google gave this link on NSE. Scheme Details should also have expenses.

2) For Mutual Funds use value research, fundsindia, morningstar.in as i wrote in first post. They have some nice articles and analyst commentary.
Note - Use DIRECT versions of the scheme. I already gave link to another post as to why using regular schemes for long term is foolish as expenses add up and compound. At end of say 20 years you have paid approx 30% of your total amount as expenses.

3) Entry loads have been abolished. There is only recurring expense. Exit load only applies if you exit early. Generally its 1 year for equity ( sometimes 2) and variable for debt depending on scheme. All of these details are in the site. There is no brokerage if you invest directly, i dont know about brokers. ICICI used to charge if your portfolio value is less than 8 lakhs. But brokerage hardly matters. With brokers you cant invest in DIRECT funds that have 0.5-1% less expense. The extra expense goes to your broker and this will be sizeable amount. For 10L you will pay 5k-10k to your broker EVERY year. Hence use DIRECT

4) I would say hold on to equity funds for atleast 5 years, esp the next 5 years - as the cycle is changing and we should hopefully get a low inflation high growth economy. For tax - you only need to hold for 1 year to get long term tax free. For Debt schemes you need to hold for 3 years to get indexation ( against inflation ) else you need to add entire profit in your income.
 
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aryan.

Active Member
#18
Opto was years ago, i just blindly invested on EM recommendation. Also read about it in some magazine. I dont look at EM now, their followups were dissappointing in many stocks. Dont regret it, made much more in SRF to compensate. Have few good people in moneycontrol instead who are more reliable ...

I am no good with Equity research, Dont have any knoweldge and also dont have any inclination to read. Its a lot of effort and developing skill will take time. Even after that there is no guarantee that i will beat Good Mutual Funds.
I rather read other stuff and leave investing to Mutual Funds. Still have some stocks but they are limited part of portfolio with hopes of another SRF :). Its probably silly gamble but working well so far.

Again, i dont say avoid stocks, just that for most people it makes sense to use MF instead.
Thanks for sharing.
 

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