do traders subconsciously really want to lose?
- Thread starter onlinegtrash
- Start date
TLDR; version 
a summary of GG's post
----------------------------------------
addictive unconscious behavior has lot in common with bad trading.
academic smartness is NOT a ticket to trading success
Trading is shortest path from idea to money, 9-5 mindset won't work, requires changing your decisions i.e constant hyper adaptation.
Traders should switch sides based on new data, skip prediction models, all of them are falliable and won't work all the time.
Bad traders can make big money but eventually blow out spectacularly.
Principles of Peak Performance:
1) Trying too hard = you are doing it wrong (eg: dance, an inspiring speech, sleep, playing tennis, any performance sports, thinking + trying hard = disaster).
2) Practise enough to build trust and confidence in your moves. Process is important than results. Ironically staying detached to results improves performance. (An archer trying hard to win a gold now have two targets in head to strike, obviously he is going to lose!).
3) Learn to handle failures.
Trade only when you are emotionally ready.
Good profitable trades are small, riding trend is problem even to experienced traders, as they are defensive to protect capital.
Tips:
* on a big loss happening, try cutting the position to half, atleast you reduced the risk. Think this as an offer to risk gods!
* Even professional traders too need to get out of nasty failed trades, so get rid of it and go for new trades.
* Starting with small scalp trades can be good warm up exercise until you are ready for more.
* Once you achieve consistency, Make money by increasing lot size, NOT your risk size, it won't work. Don't be 'all-in-high-risk-dumb' trader.
People choke on high pressure situations, handling pressure and reacting well is important to be trader. Understanding and acting under pressure are not same, that's why all analysts are traders.
Aim for consistency in performance.
If you believe you can, you are right, if you believe you can't then you are right too!
Trading is highly injurious to health, wealth and life, if you don't enjoy it and have the ability to cut it out as a winners.
a summary of GG's post----------------------------------------
addictive unconscious behavior has lot in common with bad trading.
academic smartness is NOT a ticket to trading success
Trading is shortest path from idea to money, 9-5 mindset won't work, requires changing your decisions i.e constant hyper adaptation.
Traders should switch sides based on new data, skip prediction models, all of them are falliable and won't work all the time.
Bad traders can make big money but eventually blow out spectacularly.
Principles of Peak Performance:
1) Trying too hard = you are doing it wrong (eg: dance, an inspiring speech, sleep, playing tennis, any performance sports, thinking + trying hard = disaster).
2) Practise enough to build trust and confidence in your moves. Process is important than results. Ironically staying detached to results improves performance. (An archer trying hard to win a gold now have two targets in head to strike, obviously he is going to lose!).
3) Learn to handle failures.
Trade only when you are emotionally ready.
Good profitable trades are small, riding trend is problem even to experienced traders, as they are defensive to protect capital.
Tips:
* on a big loss happening, try cutting the position to half, atleast you reduced the risk. Think this as an offer to risk gods!
* Even professional traders too need to get out of nasty failed trades, so get rid of it and go for new trades.
* Starting with small scalp trades can be good warm up exercise until you are ready for more.
* Once you achieve consistency, Make money by increasing lot size, NOT your risk size, it won't work. Don't be 'all-in-high-risk-dumb' trader.
People choke on high pressure situations, handling pressure and reacting well is important to be trader. Understanding and acting under pressure are not same, that's why all analysts are traders.
Aim for consistency in performance.
If you believe you can, you are right, if you believe you can't then you are right too!
Trading is highly injurious to health, wealth and life, if you don't enjoy it and have the ability to cut it out as a winners.
Last edited:
Did you mean psychological issues? Yes of course trading is all about the "mind game".
When i say "i lost everything" , i really mean it. I blew up all my money and was left with small change. I took a small break and some switch went off inside me which made me change my perspective on the markets. I got back to trading and made all the money i had lost. I will probably write about my experience in a separate thread someday...
When i say "i lost everything" , i really mean it. I blew up all my money and was left with small change. I took a small break and some switch went off inside me which made me change my perspective on the markets. I got back to trading and made all the money i had lost. I will probably write about my experience in a separate thread someday...
Hi,
I am sure many of the traders who had been trading quite for some time and have made considerable gains (or losses) have their own strategies & patterns. But inspite of that experience factors, books, training, learning etc etc, does any one have experienced the factor of "Luck" in the gains or losses you had.
In simple words, How would you rate the factor of Luck in trading.
I am sure many of the traders who had been trading quite for some time and have made considerable gains (or losses) have their own strategies & patterns. But inspite of that experience factors, books, training, learning etc etc, does any one have experienced the factor of "Luck" in the gains or losses you had.
In simple words, How would you rate the factor of Luck in trading.
Luck factor, is actually a temporary noise.
The reason I got into trading was luck factor my first options trade returned a 260% returns but I quickly lost all the profits and more. For a professional trader the other way around i.e catastrophic loss (loss above 30%) in single trade is just not possible if he position sizes properly.
So in long run, luck factor approaches zero, but in short time frame, it would mislead untrained eyes! This is true in poker too.
The reason I got into trading was luck factor my first options trade returned a 260% returns but I quickly lost all the profits and more. For a professional trader the other way around i.e catastrophic loss (loss above 30%) in single trade is just not possible if he position sizes properly.
So in long run, luck factor approaches zero, but in short time frame, it would mislead untrained eyes! This is true in poker too.
Traders fail consciously. To get failure in markets, we don't need such powerful mechanism called "subconscious mind". Just trader's conscious mind is enough.
They know they didn't learn about market, they know majority of people fail in markets, they know billionaires put tons of effort to know value of a company before investing
but still they loose to markets because they just check how lucky they would be quick learning the odds of 5% winning people, how quick possibly can make money, how easy it is to replace our offline job salary, how great that would be transforming from middle class life to rich life.
They know they didn't learn about market, they know majority of people fail in markets, they know billionaires put tons of effort to know value of a company before investing
but still they loose to markets because they just check how lucky they would be quick learning the odds of 5% winning people, how quick possibly can make money, how easy it is to replace our offline job salary, how great that would be transforming from middle class life to rich life.
So, according to you (based on your actual experience and not theories), Luck factor is a non-entity and the trade & winning or loosing depends ONLY on the Individual's knowledge , training, strategies etc.
I have seen many make incredible efforts to study each of the scrips, how they shall perform etc etc and yet, they end making some mistake and loose money. This could be a nano second decision that may be against all the theories that have been learned.
Now we can say that it is lack of training or pure lack of luck (to have behaved irrationally).
There are also situations where inspite of best of the studies and a perfectly conscious trade went the opposite way for reasons that where never disclosed at the time of placing of order and could be relied completely. Here also we can say for argument sake that the person had not done proper study or should have got out once he learns about the reversal or can say that it was pure lack of luck.
In both cases, the person usually becomes numb due to confusion caused by the unexpected loss or potential huge loss and simply sits dumb out of fear from doing anything to stop the losses piling or taking active steps to reverse the losses.
Is it the limitation of Individual's brain to react in a debilitating manner or the emotional surge that cause the brain to behave such irrational manner?.
Either such person should not take up stock trading or is there any methodology to train themselves so that their brain can function is a way that is most appropriate for a trader?
One point though is that, some persons seems to end up making money though they may have any training or knowledge in stock markets and depend purely on their intuitive powers.
I have seen many make incredible efforts to study each of the scrips, how they shall perform etc etc and yet, they end making some mistake and loose money. This could be a nano second decision that may be against all the theories that have been learned.
Now we can say that it is lack of training or pure lack of luck (to have behaved irrationally).
There are also situations where inspite of best of the studies and a perfectly conscious trade went the opposite way for reasons that where never disclosed at the time of placing of order and could be relied completely. Here also we can say for argument sake that the person had not done proper study or should have got out once he learns about the reversal or can say that it was pure lack of luck.
In both cases, the person usually becomes numb due to confusion caused by the unexpected loss or potential huge loss and simply sits dumb out of fear from doing anything to stop the losses piling or taking active steps to reverse the losses.
Is it the limitation of Individual's brain to react in a debilitating manner or the emotional surge that cause the brain to behave such irrational manner?.
Either such person should not take up stock trading or is there any methodology to train themselves so that their brain can function is a way that is most appropriate for a trader?
One point though is that, some persons seems to end up making money though they may have any training or knowledge in stock markets and depend purely on their intuitive powers.
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