Day Traders Lounge.

rahulmalik · Jun 27, 2015

What you may be experiencing could be termed as mere anxiety. The effect of adrenaline is mainly limited to broncho dilation i.e increasing oxygen flow in your blood stream. Adrenaline works by stimulating the heart rate, dilating blood vessels, and dilating air passages, all of which work to increase blood flow to the muscles and oxygen to the lungs. So unless you have hyper heart beating and a kind of hyper breathing, its not the Adrenaline

Anxiety is very normal when you are trading, especially if you are a newbie. During trading hours, your system is in a tightened state of alertness. Post 3:30 pm when you have no external stimuli in the form of price action, your body will try to return to normalcy. The heightened state of arousal does take a toll on your body though. Post arousal, your body needs rest. So sleep is a very good option. Second option is to load yourself with sugary things to make you feel better( althought i dont suggest it).

As you put in more hours trading, your body will get used to the excitement. Eventually, over a period of time, your body will get used to the external inputs. Just like when you are new to driving a car you are very excited and anxious. Eventually you get used to it.

Give yourself some time. If you think it bothers you, go out for a walk if you can as walking will give your brains enough oxygen. Working out in the gym/doing any stressful bodily activity at that time will only increase your cortisol levels which can be counter productive. A long walk, sleep or lots of laughter is the best remedy here

Lastly, stop worrying about small things like mood/lethargy etc. Just listen to what your body is saying. If it says eat, you eat. If it says you sleep, you sleep. Thats it.

Broncho dilation, adreline, arousal, sugary things, cortisol - whats cooking :rofl::hap2:

XRAY27 · Jun 27, 2015

nirav_j said:

Strong Tail Malish

amitrandive · Jun 27, 2015

:clapping:

jagankris · Jun 27, 2015

arsh22g said:

Not a silly query.It is a very important query.

I guess you asked this question in General Trading chat session earlier too.

Day Trading is like playing a 20:20 Match.
Swing is like 50 overs or test match.

Choice has to be made by the trader.

I guess stress/adrenalin rush /roller coaster feeling wheat ever you may call it happens during market hours and one doesn't observe/watch them keenly.

--- Especially when one is not equipped with all that is required for day trading.

Are you a discretionary trader ? or a Mechanical system trader ?

If Mechanical
-------------
Back tested Mechanical trading system - clear entry/exit signals or targets ? (Positive expectancy ?)
Though there will be still phsycological challenges but real time analysis is eliminated and hence phsycology plays little role.

Want to have zero stress/anxiety - Go for ALGO trading

.
Though finding - designing Mech trading system will be a real challenge.

Psychology plays a great importance for discretionary traders.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

If Discretionary - The EDGE is not just the system - The Edge is the Trader Himself + SYSTEM.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trading has to be learnt
--------------------------------
Trading has to be learnt only by indulging in more trading - no other go.
Lot of screen hours and experiments.

Traders are unique and one has to find out what works for him well.

Try and see if you can follow a mechanical trading system with out any bias.
Try and see if you can follow a discretionary/rule based system
with out breaking the rules.

--------------------------
Threat and Stress
-------------------------
When mind perceives a Threat - mind creates stress to boost up the energy to cope up to the situation - Fight or Flight

So whats the threat ?
Address all the questions of the powerful subconscious mind.

The threat is financial/emotional.
Is my decision to choose the career as day trader/Trading for living is correct ?

If Yes
--Whats the edge I have ?

Do I have sufficient money to take care of my family/personal expenses/health/ with out
any income from Trading for say year at least?

Am I willing to risk just only the money I can and in no way affected even if whole of the money I loose.

Say after what period of time I will decide if I am fit for day trading ?

If I don't succeed in day trading - will I get job outside or I have alternate business ?

---PLEASE HAVE A WRITTEN BUSINESS PLAN/Trading PLAN/Trading System/Set ups - what ever you call it.
---OBJECTIVES/GOALS.
---CHECKLISTS
---PROCESS TO BE FOLLOWED

This is important because the subconscious is very powerful and will over power and influence our conscious mind and trading decision.

But whats the reason for stress/anxiety/in decisiveness/frustrations/ ?
When mind perceives a threat - it releases adrenaline.

So whats the threat ? - The threat of loosing money ?
Threat of unexpected sudden price move opposite to ones position ?
Threat of emotional discomfort when market proves ones views wrong ?
or belief system about the markets ?
So if one alters his belief system one will succeed in conquering the stress/anxiety combined with a solid system/strategy/setup.

A person having negative beliefs about the markets and
at the same time not ready to take responsibilities for his actions will surely fail.

Is it due to the liking to need to be in control of the external outcome of the situations while the outcome is not in ones control in trading ? - The Illusion of control ?

Trader has to let go the need to be in control ---- Very Very Tough.

Inability of accept small losses ?

Or Wish to be always right ?

Is it due to lack of confidence ?
How strong is one in TA ?

Some Psychological Reasons for Stress/Fear/Anxiety during Trading
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Continuous up/down up/down movement of price makes mind to start guessing ?uncertainty - which direction the markets are likely to go ?
What so ever effort mind may try to put it cannot for sure predict the right side of the chart 100% accurately all the times.
And even if there is 1% doubt the mind will continuously chatter.
So make concious effort/practice to stop the mind making effort unconsciously to assess for - against (up - down bias) continuously.

Lesser the no of thoughts - lesser the anxiety/stress/fear/doubt/confusion/.
If there is certainity - no anxiety/no thinking/guessing.

Trying to trade the markets continuously in smaller timeframes
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Continuous trading - taking all trades trend/counter trend/breakouts/pullbacks/high momentum/low momentum/sideways - very very very tough - but for experts/experienced traders.
It is very difficult to trade in both the directions long/short.
For trend rules will be diff from counter trend and side ways and this will need when to let run the profits/when to take profits aggressively/when to switch between
trending to sideways.
This requires fast dynamic analysis with out loosing focus and trading with out directional bias.

And one will definitely subjected to high amount of stress/anxiety when try this in initial stages.

Though not impossible but will take lot of years of experience and practice.Very rare achievement.

The continuous effort to keep making fast decisions ?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Continuous/conflicting/confusing price movement causes anxiety/stress.
Have a system well defined - entry/sl/re entry/trailing stop or exit rules/Risk rules well defined.

Keep it simple
----------------------
Analysis is different from Trading.One can analyze only the past - history - data's - left side of the charts - what ever.
If one keeps analyzing more during trading - there will be more thoughts.Trading will be stressful.

If too many complex rules/Having too many indicators - giving contradictory or lagging signals leading to
analysis paralysis or confusion,indecision./data points/checking multiple scripts/(some even find multiple time frames checks unnecessary).
[Again this depends - there are people who does this successfully - but very few].

Inability to trust/have deep faith/beliefs in ones trading system/SET UP/STrategy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
One should have strong faith/trust/believe their trading system.
If one is not confident but doubtful about one's system - one may not trade successfully - stress free.
Small Losses are part of trading/Treat them as business costs - dont take losses personally.
Edge is in consistency in following ones trading system/rules.

Choosing the Right Time Frame for Trading
------------------------------------------------
Choosing a wrong time frame in trading ? - Say 1M but he may be more comfortable psychologically in trading 5M frame or 15M.
or 5M could be too slow or risk rules/better entries may not be suitable for the person and he may be comfortable with 3M.

Over Trading
-------------------
(Again this depends there are jobbers who trades 40-50 trades successfully.)
Trading more no of trades (ex 10+) in a single instrument - scalping
One needs to define what category the person belongs to.

Trying to Trade more no of instruments parallel.

Trade Size - Stretching too much beyond ones phsycological comfort zone
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Violating Risk Rules and taking trade size purely based on the TA skills of the person.
Say I saw some traders making 500% - 300% returns in options trading (day trading).
Capital involved - 40 -50 thousand - profit - one made 5 Lakhs and the second made 80,000.

Say with 50,000 rs trade size - risk % of the trade say 15% means 7,500 rs.
I was wondering if they are trading with a Total capital of 7.5 lakhs or trading with much lesser capital but taking high risk trades ?

LEVERAGE - Some trade using the leverage with out understanding the risks of leverage.
10X Leverage means the risk is amplified by 10 times

More the leverage more the risk and more the stress.

Choosing the right trading instrument
-----------------------------------------------
High volatile/High momentum instruments with abrupt price shocks may not be suitable for every one.
Say for example OPTIONS/BankNifty - but the same person if he is asked to trade Nifty - he would trade better.

Trade Management and Trading style.
-----------------------------------------
One has to find out which is psychologically comfortable for him.

Say some traders are comfortable with pre determined risk / entry / known exit point.
Enter the trade / place the stop and target and forget.
Trailing stops or unknown target creates a kind of uncertainty for them.

Some ride the trend and accepts what ever the market gives.

Say Trader A might be comfortable trading 15M time frame both for entry exits - no MTF analysis.

Trader B might be still riding the trend but could be moving to smaller time frame for
potential reversals.

Both are valid - (One has to find out what works out well for him).

Some traders prefer to take multiple small losses (strict stops) - predict tops/bottoms/reversals.
Some traders prefer large stops - and smaller no of stop loss hits.

Some traders wait for trade setups/Patterns/levels which they are comfortably and trade only those.

Say some trades breakouts/momentum well.
Some patiently wait for first pullback to the MA.

Trying to cope threat with false hope(Not accepting losses - self deception - stress coping techniques of mind) the outcome with wrong beliefs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
After taking position and not willing to accept losses or being egoistic - emotional bias to be always correct - But deceiving oneself with wrong beliefs that I have sufficient margin.
Averaging the loosing trades
Hoping for reversals
Having a subjective/predictive strategies and believing that blindly violating ones risk rules even if trade goes against and keep hoping.

Observing the emotions
-----------------------------
Just note down how you feel during

High volatile high Momentum Periods/Price shocks.

When there is a series of continuous opposite trading signals - like
sideways zone and mind is already charged with negative emotion - if couple of losses taken in the
sideways and waiting for potential breakout.
Keeps guessing continuously - which side the breakout is likely to happen ? etc

Predicting tops/bottoms/reversals/

Anxiety/Stress/Frustration/Disappointment/Impatience/Disbelief or any other emotion that troubles.

Quit Smoking/Drinking habits if any.

During trading
Drink lot of Water/Juice.
Take couple of deep breaths.
Hear light music - just karoke.

How do you feel when market moves exactly opposite to your analysis/prediction ?
etc etc

Setting performance goals
---------------------------------
Don't set any monitory performance goals or keep watching the profit/loss/MTM often.
Have process improvement goals.
Focus on the process.
Keep improving the process.Trading results will improve automatically.
Trader cannot control the outcome of each trade.
He can control only his risk.

Don't try to tie the self worth with trading success/loss and don't pressure oneself to make more.
Markets doesn't care if one is rich or poor or educated or uneducated and nor the trading performance is dependent on them.

amitrandive · Jun 27, 2015

Bunker Roy: An Educator That Helps Illiterates To become Artisans, Dentists And Doctors
http://thelogicalindian.com/story-f...ates-to-become-artisans-dentists-and-doctors/

Sanjit “Bunker” Roy is an Indian social activist and educator. He was selected as one of Time 100‘s 100 most influential personalities in 2010 for his work in educating illiterate and semi literate rural Indians.

In Rajasthan, India, an extraordinary school teaches rural women and men — many of them illiterate — to become solar engineers, artisans, dentists and doctors in their own villages. It’s called the Barefoot College.

Development projects the world over run into one crucial point: For a project to live on, it needs to be organic, owned and sustained by those it serves. In 1972, Sanjit “Bunker” Roy founded the Barefoot College, in the village of Tilonia in Rajasthan, India, with just this mission: to provide basic services and solutions in rural communities with the objective of making them self-sufficient. These “barefoot solutions” can be broadly categorized into solar energy, water, education, health care, rural handicrafts, people’s action, communication, women’s empowerment and wasteland development. The Barefoot College education program, for instance, teaches literacy and also skills, encouraging learning-by-doing. (Literacy is only part of it.) Bunker’s organization has also successfully trained grandmothers from Africa and the Himalayan region to be solar engineers so they can bring electricity to their remote villages.

As he says, Barefoot College is “a place of learning and unlearning: where the teacher is the learner and the learner is the teacher.”

amitrandive · Jun 27, 2015

amitrandive · Jun 27, 2015

Meditation For Beginners: 20 Practical Tips For Quieting The Mind
http://themindunleashed.org/2015/02/meditation-beginners-20-practical-tips-quieting-mind.html

The purpose of this article is to provide 20 practical recommendations to help beginners get past the initial hurdles and integrate meditation over the long term:

1) Make it a formal practice. You will only get to the next level in meditation by setting aside specific time (preferably two times a day) to be still.

2) Start with the breath. Breathing deep slows the heart rate, relaxes the muscles, focuses the mind and is an ideal way to begin practice.
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3) Stretch first. Stretching loosens the muscles and tendons allowing you to sit (or lie) more comfortably. Additionally, stretching starts the process of “going inward” and brings added attention to the body.

4) Meditate with Purpose. Beginners must understand that meditation is an ACTIVE process. The art of focusing your attention to a single point is hard work, and you have to be purposefully engaged!

5) Notice frustration creep up on you. This is very common for beginners as we think “hey, what am I doing here” or “why can’t I just quiet my damn mind already”. When this happens, really focus in on your breath and let the frustrated feelings go.

6) Experiment. Although many of us think of effective meditation as a Yogi sitting cross-legged beneath a Bonzi tree, beginners should be more experimental and try different types of meditation. Try sitting, lying, eyes open, eyes closed, etc.

7) Feel your body parts. A great practice for beginning meditators is to take notice of the body when a meditative state starts to take hold. Once the mind quiets, put all your attention to the feet and then slowly move your way up the body (include your internal organs). This is very healthy and an indicator that you are on the right path.

8) Pick a specific room in your home to meditate. Make sure it is not the same room where you do work, exercise, or sleep. Place candles and other spiritual paraphernalia in the room to help you feel at ease.

9) Read a book (or two) on meditation. Preferably an instructional guide AND one that describes the benefits of deep meditative states. This will get you motivated. John Kabat-Zinn’s Wherever You Go, There You Are is terrific for beginners.
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10) Commit for the long haul. Meditation is a life-long practice, and you will benefit most by NOT examining the results of your daily practice. Just do the best you can every day, and then let it go!

11) Listen to instructional tapes and CDs.

12) Generate moments of awareness during the day. Finding your breath and “being present” while not in formal practice is a wonderful way to evolve your meditation habits.

13) Make sure you will not be disturbed. One of the biggest mistakes beginners make is not insuring peaceful practice conditions. If you have it in the back of your mind that the phone might ring, your kids might wake, or your coffee pot might whistle than you will not be able to attain a state of deep relaxation.

14) Notice small adjustments. For beginning meditators, the slightest physical movements can transform a meditative practice from one of frustration to one of renewal. These adjustments may be barely noticeable to an observer, but they can mean everything for your practice.

15) Use a candle. Meditating with eyes closed can be challenging for a beginner. Lighting a candle and using it as your point of focus allows you to strengthen your attention with a visual cue. This can be very powerful.

16) Do NOT Stress. This may be the most important tip for beginners, and the hardest to implement. No matter what happens during your meditation practice, do not stress about it. This includes being nervous before meditating and angry afterwards. Meditation is what it is, and just do the best you can at the time.

17) Do it together. Meditating with a partner or loved one can have many wonderful benefits, and can improve your practice. However, it is necessary to make sure that you set agreed-upon ground rules before you begin!

18) Meditate early in the morning. Without a doubt, early morning is an ideal time to practice: it is quieter, your mind is not filled with the usual clutter, and there is less chance you will be disturbed. Make it a habit to get up half an hour earlier to meditate.

19) Be Grateful at the end. Once your practice is through, spend 2-3 minutes feeling appreciative of the opportunity to practice and your mind’s ability to focus.

20) Notice when your interest in meditation begins to wane. Meditation is hard work, and you will inevitably come to a point where it seemingly does not fit into the picture anymore. THIS is when you need your practice the most and I recommend you go back to the book(s) or the CD’s you listened to and become re-invigorated with the practice. Chances are that losing the ability to focus on meditation is parallel with your inability to focus in other areas of your life!

Meditation is an absolutely wonderful practice, but can be very difficult in the beginning. Use the tips described in this article to get your practice to the next level! The video below may be of use to you as well:

lemondew · Jun 27, 2015

I finalise a system for me. Nothing near the numbers you have mentioned of the smarties who post here but small % returns with consistency. I had planned to gradually go on increasing capital so that I can get somekind of manageable income.

But suddenly this series I have been negative for whole month which I hadnt anticipated. It was a shock for me to know that the system which worked for some months didnt work this month.

I sat up and tried to refine it only to realise that system cdnt be adjusted to make it work last series and I may have some months where I wouldnt make money with this system. Thats a bitter pill for me.

I have to save for these months. That means
a) more capital on table or find one more system and make more money.
b) Spend less :annoyed:

Somatung said:

rahulmalik · Jun 27, 2015

amitrandive said:

Thanks Amit. this is useful. one more suggestion for starters, who face tough time focusing. when u start, keep the tongue stuck to the upper part of the jaw, and keep it there, dont let it come down. this has been suggested by many experts and can help start calming u down immediately.

lemondew · Jun 27, 2015

After this why not use a system which fails more often but gives good returns and also something that gives more entries as someone said earlier all systems fail sometime or the other.

Just put a poll to see what other minds feel
http://www.traderji.com/general-trading-investing-chat/98924-poll-trading-system-types.html

lemondew said:

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Day Traders Lounge.

rahulmalik

You only lose what you cling to.

XRAY27

Well-Known Member

amitrandive

Well-Known Member

jagankris

Well-Known Member

amitrandive

Well-Known Member

amitrandive

Well-Known Member

amitrandive

Well-Known Member

lemondew

Well-Known Member

rahulmalik

You only lose what you cling to.

lemondew

Well-Known Member

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