Confessions of a banknifty trader
- Thread starter niftytaurus
- Start date
Fear of Losing
Risk management tools are your way of being in control of your money, and instead of being “fearful” about losing money, you should feel empowered and confident because you can predetermine how much you are comfortable with potentially losing BEFORE .
even after keeping MM just ask these 3 questions and get answer/s from your inner voice
1. Do I really have the knowledge and confidence to be trading with real money in the first place?
2. Am I trading a position size that’s too large for my personal risk profile / per-trade risk tolerance?
3. Do I truly understand the math’s behind trading?
If answer are not acceptable,then we should start the learning curve..with out no second choice
Risk management tools are your way of being in control of your money, and instead of being “fearful” about losing money, you should feel empowered and confident because you can predetermine how much you are comfortable with potentially losing BEFORE .
even after keeping MM just ask these 3 questions and get answer/s from your inner voice
1. Do I really have the knowledge and confidence to be trading with real money in the first place?
2. Am I trading a position size that’s too large for my personal risk profile / per-trade risk tolerance?
3. Do I truly understand the math’s behind trading?
If answer are not acceptable,then we should start the learning curve..with out no second choice
Hello Niftytaurus and everybody else
,
After a very long gap (approx 1.5 years - don't remember exactly), I am doing this posting today. Actually I was just surfing the net and came across traderji site and just because of old memories with this forum, I clicked it and saw your thread. Its really nice reading your thread. I have read almost every posting of yours in this thread. It touched me deeply. I have made some points BOLD AND UNDERLINES to highlight the ones which I liked most. Please see above.
Tons of thoughts are coming into my mind. First of all I wish to clear one thing that I am here as your friend not as a mentor. Second I am also learning and a student of market just like you. Abhi shayad thoda sa zayda knowledge ho sakta hai but after some time I may start learning from you jab tum bhi mahnat karte rahoge aur experienced ho jaoge. Believe me tum bhi dost jaldi hi expert ho jaoge. Keep learning this art and keep learning from your mistakes also. Great Jesse Livermore once said OFFCOURSE IF A MAN BOTH WISE AND LUCKY HE WILL NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE. BUT HE WILL MAKE ANY ONE OF THE TEN THOUSAND BROTHERS OR COUSINS OF THE ORIGINAL. THE MISTAKE FAMILY IS SO LARGE THAT THERE IS ALWAYS ONE OF THEM AROUND WHEN YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO IN THE FOOL PLAY LINE. Mistakes hamesha hongi. Always expect them. But how to handle your trade in wrong situation, keep learning this.
I am also like you in many things. Alone, no friend, not attending any social function since years etc etc. Always learning. Always reading or trying to figure out something from charts.
One more thing that is common between you and me is that I also trade only in BANKNIFTY. No stocks, no other thing. Even not nifty.
I came to this forum to find some friends who have same passion like me and can exchange knowledge almost 16 hrs per day. I wish to share with you my knowledge and will try to help you in every possible way. Pls note that I am not trying to say that I know more than you. What ever I know I will share with you and jo bhi tumhare kaam ka ho usko use kar lena and meanwhile I will also learn something from you. One thing is certain that while saying something or sharing my analysis with others, I have to remain on my toes everytime. Hence before saying something or writing on this open forum I have to recheck my points many times. But due to this reason I also gain (in the form of analysis) too much.
Ab kahani bahut ho gayi lets work on our skill improvement now.
Best things that you are doing and you should keep doing are:
Not following tips, no news(best one:thumb, reading a lot, secluded yourself to TRADING ROOM, hard working, trying to figure out desperately that what is going wrong with your trades (everyone in this forum must be impressed by your this point. It shows your determination to become profitable. Hats off to you dost!!:clapping, cant do chamchagiri ( best place for such persons is trading-no need to talk anyone in this field), resigned when you were at top and many more. Keep doing these things as this is the first and very important step towards success in trading.
I think that the most important thing that you have to improve is the number of points in winning trades. 50 points profit is too small. Your entry and exit duration of few minutes is too small. If you are using 15 minute candle than you should trade only those setups which will give you trade for atleast two to three days. In case 5 minute bar candle than your trade duration should be few minutes to couple of hours.
For intraday trades dont trade 5 minute or 15 minute. 1 minute is must. Its like FORMULA ONE car racing. You cant compete here with normal cars even if you have BMW AUDI or LAMBORGHINI!! (VW might be because woh jo POWER bolte hain usse zayda dete hain without caring about environment or pollution). With 5 minute bar you will always be late in entry and exit. (THIS IS MY PERSONAL VIEW SO PLEASE DON'T DROP BOMBS ON ME FOR THIS POINT. I am open for discussion.)
If setup fails OR you and me do take some loss than why to worry? Just take loss and forget it. Dimaag kharaab tabhi karo jab setup ko follow na kiya ho. If you have followed your setup and it didnt work than its ok. You should pat yourself that you have followed your setup and also EXIT at your stop loss level. NO system is 100 percent accurate. Suppose you have a system which is 70 percent winning than during the loss woh 30 percent duration hai jo work nahin karti. Hope you are getting my point.
One more thing, You need to make a COMPLETE TRADING SYSTEM WITH COMPLETE OR DETAILED RULES FOR ENTRY, EXIT, STOP LOSS and TRAILING STOP LOSS. This is first requirement. No book will do this for you. Ever. You have to write your own book or say rules. Experience will help you.
You cant trade in one lot everytime. Give weightage to your setups. If its on EOD charts than trade double or triple (decide as per your convenience), if its on intraday chart than one lot is sufficient. If you wish I can give you some examples also.
Oh I forgot to mention that dont trade with your real money. Paper trading is best initially. Atleast one month of CONSISTENT RESULTS are must before starting actual trading. Anyone can make few good or profitable trades. Almost anyone, even persons who dont know abc of share market. CONSISTENCY is what we should expect from our trading. (I know you are looking for this thing).
Hope you will find it useful.
,After a very long gap (approx 1.5 years - don't remember exactly), I am doing this posting today. Actually I was just surfing the net and came across traderji site and just because of old memories with this forum, I clicked it and saw your thread. Its really nice reading your thread. I have read almost every posting of yours in this thread. It touched me deeply. I have made some points BOLD AND UNDERLINES to highlight the ones which I liked most. Please see above.
Tons of thoughts are coming into my mind. First of all I wish to clear one thing that I am here as your friend not as a mentor. Second I am also learning and a student of market just like you. Abhi shayad thoda sa zayda knowledge ho sakta hai but after some time I may start learning from you jab tum bhi mahnat karte rahoge aur experienced ho jaoge. Believe me tum bhi dost jaldi hi expert ho jaoge. Keep learning this art and keep learning from your mistakes also. Great Jesse Livermore once said OFFCOURSE IF A MAN BOTH WISE AND LUCKY HE WILL NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE. BUT HE WILL MAKE ANY ONE OF THE TEN THOUSAND BROTHERS OR COUSINS OF THE ORIGINAL. THE MISTAKE FAMILY IS SO LARGE THAT THERE IS ALWAYS ONE OF THEM AROUND WHEN YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT YOU CAN DO IN THE FOOL PLAY LINE. Mistakes hamesha hongi. Always expect them. But how to handle your trade in wrong situation, keep learning this.
I am also like you in many things. Alone, no friend, not attending any social function since years etc etc. Always learning. Always reading or trying to figure out something from charts.
One more thing that is common between you and me is that I also trade only in BANKNIFTY. No stocks, no other thing. Even not nifty.
I came to this forum to find some friends who have same passion like me and can exchange knowledge almost 16 hrs per day. I wish to share with you my knowledge and will try to help you in every possible way. Pls note that I am not trying to say that I know more than you. What ever I know I will share with you and jo bhi tumhare kaam ka ho usko use kar lena and meanwhile I will also learn something from you. One thing is certain that while saying something or sharing my analysis with others, I have to remain on my toes everytime. Hence before saying something or writing on this open forum I have to recheck my points many times. But due to this reason I also gain (in the form of analysis) too much.
Ab kahani bahut ho gayi lets work on our skill improvement now.
Best things that you are doing and you should keep doing are:
Not following tips, no news(best one:thumb
, reading a lot, secluded yourself to TRADING ROOM, hard working, trying to figure out desperately that what is going wrong with your trades (everyone in this forum must be impressed by your this point. It shows your determination to become profitable. Hats off to you dost!!:clapping, cant do chamchagiri ( best place for such persons is trading-no need to talk anyone in this field), resigned when you were at top and many more. Keep doing these things as this is the first and very important step towards success in trading.I think that the most important thing that you have to improve is the number of points in winning trades. 50 points profit is too small. Your entry and exit duration of few minutes is too small. If you are using 15 minute candle than you should trade only those setups which will give you trade for atleast two to three days. In case 5 minute bar candle than your trade duration should be few minutes to couple of hours.
For intraday trades dont trade 5 minute or 15 minute. 1 minute is must. Its like FORMULA ONE car racing. You cant compete here with normal cars even if you have BMW AUDI or LAMBORGHINI!! (VW might be because woh jo POWER bolte hain usse zayda dete hain without caring about environment or pollution). With 5 minute bar you will always be late in entry and exit. (THIS IS MY PERSONAL VIEW SO PLEASE DON'T DROP BOMBS ON ME FOR THIS POINT. I am open for discussion.)
If setup fails OR you and me do take some loss than why to worry? Just take loss and forget it. Dimaag kharaab tabhi karo jab setup ko follow na kiya ho. If you have followed your setup and it didnt work than its ok. You should pat yourself that you have followed your setup and also EXIT at your stop loss level. NO system is 100 percent accurate. Suppose you have a system which is 70 percent winning than during the loss woh 30 percent duration hai jo work nahin karti. Hope you are getting my point.
One more thing, You need to make a COMPLETE TRADING SYSTEM WITH COMPLETE OR DETAILED RULES FOR ENTRY, EXIT, STOP LOSS and TRAILING STOP LOSS. This is first requirement. No book will do this for you. Ever. You have to write your own book or say rules. Experience will help you.
You cant trade in one lot everytime. Give weightage to your setups. If its on EOD charts than trade double or triple (decide as per your convenience), if its on intraday chart than one lot is sufficient. If you wish I can give you some examples also.
Oh I forgot to mention that dont trade with your real money. Paper trading is best initially. Atleast one month of CONSISTENT RESULTS are must before starting actual trading. Anyone can make few good or profitable trades. Almost anyone, even persons who dont know abc of share market. CONSISTENCY is what we should expect from our trading. (I know you are looking for this thing).
Hope you will find it useful.
Last edited:
Dear Nifty Tauras,
You need to work on following things. I am mentioning in points just to understand it easily and also its easy for future references.
1st You need to increase your profit targets per trade wise. 20 point or 50 point profit is too small to survive commissions and slippages and JUMPING OF STOP LOSSES. Already covered in detail in previous posting. Develop a habit of not touching the profitable trades for couple of hours. You are trading Banknifty. Find out its daily range for last 250 days / 120 days /90 days / 22 days and check yourself what is the percentage that you wish to take when you are correct. If your profit targets are big than you don't have to worry about your accuracy. Even with a accuracy of less than 40 percent you will make a very good amount consistently. This is the most important thing that you need to work on. Want to share small secret, I am still working on my this skill.
2nd You have to make a detailed TRADING SETUP elaborating ENTRY RULES, STOP LOSS RULES, TRAILING STOP LOSS RULES and EXIT RULES.
3rd On 10th June you traded at 9.19 and on 11th June 9.16. Ohh common, Are you seriously trading for INTRADAY ? If positional than its ok to take position in just one minute after market opening. Sometimes you may make money (intraday) by taking positions in 1st minute market opening but not consistently. For intraday, one should watch the direction of orders or Market Makers or OPERATORS or whatever is your system. It needs some time, few minutes atleast (for example-5 min to 30 minute). If you don't have clue about the direction as per your system than DO NOT TRADE till gets clue or DO NOT TRADE FOR WHOLE DAY also don't trade if opportunity is lost. Market will remain here always even after you and me (Said by one great trader in 1876). LOSS OF OPPORTUNITY IS BETTER THAN LOSS OF MONEY.
Will add points later.
You need to work on following things. I am mentioning in points just to understand it easily and also its easy for future references.
1st You need to increase your profit targets per trade wise. 20 point or 50 point profit is too small to survive commissions and slippages and JUMPING OF STOP LOSSES. Already covered in detail in previous posting. Develop a habit of not touching the profitable trades for couple of hours. You are trading Banknifty. Find out its daily range for last 250 days / 120 days /90 days / 22 days and check yourself what is the percentage that you wish to take when you are correct. If your profit targets are big than you don't have to worry about your accuracy. Even with a accuracy of less than 40 percent you will make a very good amount consistently. This is the most important thing that you need to work on. Want to share small secret, I am still working on my this skill.
2nd You have to make a detailed TRADING SETUP elaborating ENTRY RULES, STOP LOSS RULES, TRAILING STOP LOSS RULES and EXIT RULES.
3rd On 10th June you traded at 9.19 and on 11th June 9.16. Ohh common, Are you seriously trading for INTRADAY ? If positional than its ok to take position in just one minute after market opening. Sometimes you may make money (intraday) by taking positions in 1st minute market opening but not consistently. For intraday, one should watch the direction of orders or Market Makers or OPERATORS or whatever is your system. It needs some time, few minutes atleast (for example-5 min to 30 minute). If you don't have clue about the direction as per your system than DO NOT TRADE till gets clue or DO NOT TRADE FOR WHOLE DAY also don't trade if opportunity is lost. Market will remain here always even after you and me (Said by one great trader in 1876). LOSS OF OPPORTUNITY IS BETTER THAN LOSS OF MONEY.
Will add points later.
Last edited:
Hi NT,
Thanks to Amit, he has already covered most points that i wanted to say too(and in a much better way) , just have only few points left that you can consider -
1. In my experience too BNF is more noisy than NF, have been learning DP trading and if you compare same setups on both scrips NF has higher success rate. Whatever be your strategy check whether NF is more suitable for it or BNF. Also volatility is more in BNF so managing trades actively is going to be more difficult as compared to NF. Point is to select best for profitability and mental good, objectively check best candidate and switch if needed.
2. Goal of getting 50 points daily - HOW IS THAT IN YOUR CONTROL ? Our goals should be about what we can control, we can get 50, 100 or - 100 points in a day which depends on how market moves and also on how we execute our system. Even if you execute your trades perfectly there will be days when you will end -ve and you still havent mastered your method so imagine what this expectation or goal will have affect on your psyche... it can be only disappointment, pain and decrease in self confidence.
On the other hand if your goal is to just follow your rules no matter what then gain, loss, market not moving much or moving very much will not have any affect on you. Its very important to feel successful and moving ahead EOD each day to sustain the long journey of learning, so have goals in which outcome is decided by you only and no other outside factors
3. I guess you will do only intraday so why 1 lac ?? you may overtrade or revenge trade and risk much more and loose much more than what you plan to by doing this( i have done this again and again), so maximum you should keep is 20k for BNF 1 lot. If needed you can transfer easily.
4. IMO counter trend traders should be done only when with trend trades have been mastered, i have also started NF trading on DP basis since this monday and trading with trend trades only. Re-entry also should be learned only after you have learned to execute the basic setups else it will create confusion, frustration and will also affect your profit.
5. After how many losers in a day you will stop trading ?
6. Watch after how many trades you start to more prone to break your rules and take that as a limit on number of trades in a day.
Lastly trading is not a 9 to 3 event, whatever you do after trading or before trading will affect your performance next day. How you review, how you sleep, what you eat, what you think, what you do.. everything will affect how you perform tomorrow so be mindful of whatever you do.
Following things have helped me in improving myself and would urge you to try them too-
1. Exercise in the morning, it really bumps your energy and keeps you in good mood whole day. I alternate running (i do 4k now and working on increasing speed) and body exercise( can do 45 non stop and goal is to do 100). Make goals in other areas of life too like something physical, try dancing, skipping, running, weightlifting or any other thing you like and you will see what difference it makes to your life.
2. Mindfulness - do atleast 2 times a day, one before session and one evening. It enables you to see clearly whats real and whats not, helps us to come out of the mess that our mind creates. Its difficult and like any other skill needs commitment but if you do it i can guarrenty that this skill alone will make you super happy, successful and satisfied.
One last question.. why do you trade ? and one year from now how you see yourself ?
Best wishes.
Thanks to Amit, he has already covered most points that i wanted to say too(and in a much better way) , just have only few points left that you can consider -
1. In my experience too BNF is more noisy than NF, have been learning DP trading and if you compare same setups on both scrips NF has higher success rate. Whatever be your strategy check whether NF is more suitable for it or BNF. Also volatility is more in BNF so managing trades actively is going to be more difficult as compared to NF. Point is to select best for profitability and mental good, objectively check best candidate and switch if needed.
2. Goal of getting 50 points daily - HOW IS THAT IN YOUR CONTROL ? Our goals should be about what we can control, we can get 50, 100 or - 100 points in a day which depends on how market moves and also on how we execute our system. Even if you execute your trades perfectly there will be days when you will end -ve and you still havent mastered your method so imagine what this expectation or goal will have affect on your psyche... it can be only disappointment, pain and decrease in self confidence.
On the other hand if your goal is to just follow your rules no matter what then gain, loss, market not moving much or moving very much will not have any affect on you. Its very important to feel successful and moving ahead EOD each day to sustain the long journey of learning, so have goals in which outcome is decided by you only and no other outside factors
3. I guess you will do only intraday so why 1 lac ?? you may overtrade or revenge trade and risk much more and loose much more than what you plan to by doing this( i have done this again and again), so maximum you should keep is 20k for BNF 1 lot. If needed you can transfer easily.
4. IMO counter trend traders should be done only when with trend trades have been mastered, i have also started NF trading on DP basis since this monday and trading with trend trades only. Re-entry also should be learned only after you have learned to execute the basic setups else it will create confusion, frustration and will also affect your profit.
5. After how many losers in a day you will stop trading ?
6. Watch after how many trades you start to more prone to break your rules and take that as a limit on number of trades in a day.
Lastly trading is not a 9 to 3 event, whatever you do after trading or before trading will affect your performance next day. How you review, how you sleep, what you eat, what you think, what you do.. everything will affect how you perform tomorrow so be mindful of whatever you do.
Following things have helped me in improving myself and would urge you to try them too-
1. Exercise in the morning, it really bumps your energy and keeps you in good mood whole day. I alternate running (i do 4k now and working on increasing speed) and body exercise( can do 45 non stop and goal is to do 100). Make goals in other areas of life too like something physical, try dancing, skipping, running, weightlifting or any other thing you like and you will see what difference it makes to your life.
2. Mindfulness - do atleast 2 times a day, one before session and one evening. It enables you to see clearly whats real and whats not, helps us to come out of the mess that our mind creates. Its difficult and like any other skill needs commitment but if you do it i can guarrenty that this skill alone will make you super happy, successful and satisfied.
One last question.. why do you trade ? and one year from now how you see yourself ?
Best wishes
.
Just realized that the KOHINOOR OF TRADERJI has in its signature what I was trying to explain you since yesterday.
While amateurs go broke by taking large losses,professionals go broke by taking small profits...... William Eckhardt in New Market Wizards
Ab toh confirm ho gaya na ki mera point valid hai ? Ab toh manna hi padega dost ki you need to increase your profit targets.
While amateurs go broke by taking large losses,professionals go broke by taking small profits...... William Eckhardt in New Market Wizards
Ab toh confirm ho gaya na ki mera point valid hai ? Ab toh manna hi padega dost ki you need to increase your profit targets.
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