let me do a compilation from another thread of risk management.........
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first understand enterpreneurship in trading.
In trading .......knowledge /discipline/adaptability/understanding market/objectivity r supreme.......u have to acquire or learn it.
It takes time.......according to me 10yr atleast.
then understand risk involve in trade........basic difference is here risk is not potential but ACTUAL, where as profit is potential .Newcomer never understand it.
Next prepare an Edge.......anybody against u should be loser.
Use that EDGE , which timeframe suits u.......that modality of fitment by real time trade & analysis.
Where & when u r right ........just keep that one...........all others r to be unlearned.THEN can u learn Pyramiding/leverage that edge.......
again practice Discipline........only to stick to it,......may codify/or just follow it.Dont allow other variable to distract.
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actually in trading is thorough put,u continuously buy/sell in a discrete manner.......based on ur understanding/experiment/luck factor. Key is hold winner and throw loser early..........when u take a position ,i dont know what shall happen, so based on market observation , i shall book loss as per my criteria,.......best is can i add to winner.keep the ball/money so far u understand and getting return.....if its not, just stay out,.......sharpen ur skill and again comeback.
In trade its very imp to to create a risk-shield.............u r ready to protect ur money like knight.
after that learn.....what way u r comfortable............since u plan to continue as a marathan runner in market to earn atleast next 10yr........after successful trade learning.
indicators basic purpose is to give u confidence,........definitely momentum, understand exhausion of trend is imp,.........toughest learning is switch from one timeframe analysis to another time frame...........as accuracy may vary drastically ..........both +/-.
Mind it sensex is indicator of growth.
order book is indicator of profit potential and research is indicator of longterm sustainability.
toughest learning is switch from one timeframe analysis to another time frame...."
can you explain this a little more?
ya explaining it.
Ans : In normal 3 yr of learning ,all novices start to learn some method of entry, may be long term......bull entry, may be intraday.......% move and then profit book, similarly some swing buy.....like buy in pullback ie.bottom of a cup pattern.
Soon ie. after 3yr , its not suffient to earn from market is now known to him.......unless by God gifted luck he had made enough and left out Market.
So other method . other timeframe play, other forecasting idea like.......fundamental.ta or psychological + bookish random variable entry/exit system.....quantum method/fractal theory.........r read and variable strategy for different market condition which one to be applied.............r practiced for mastering.
Another problem is to fit ,where he fits naturally.........thats timeframe and style gives higher return with better strike rate.
In this search and learning ,he found out........its difficult to erase ......first pick up learning , it may be say break out play. So he has learnt it early......its with him now,........so even after 7 yr , .....if he finds a break out play in present market condition with poor probability , he may actually trade it only to lose money ,.......as he enjoys the thrill of early learning days.SIMILARLY its the time frame,.........many trader starts early as investor,........that backgroud stops not to trade at certain condition, because of complex RISK..NONO. THose who starts strong as dealer,......can not hold a 3day profit run..........knowing fully well it will move another 15% ,but block with condition of max 5%profit book, more than that u r greedy,,,,,,,,scalpers curse.
Similarly a trained swing trader of booking around 10-12 % profit ,.......can not move down to 3-5 %profit in random time frame mode so easily.
YES IT IS THE HARDEST THING TO DO
........................
Trading starts with excesses.........excess knowledge/excess time/excess money.
3places u have to fight..............self/other traders/market.
Your other life.......should not fight with your trade learning life,this environment is imp.
then comes choise of system /strategy/timeframe.
variable market condition.......up/down/volatile/nontrend small move .
Which one to be done by you.......as per ur expectation......buy/hold/sell.
What price is telling u to do? .....buy/hold/sell
Now understand to prepare trade journal.........its tool of tuning,understand what u r supposed to do vs what u have done actually.
What is ur info source......can u nullify any hearsay from market..........your decision making skill should not be variable.....it must be sharpen constantly.
how u handle stress generated out of trading.
ALL this must be writen and followed just like breathing, then u r a trader.
Journey of a trader starts from novice to beginner to advance level to expert. then comes Master.Now between advance level and expert.............its really very slippery,.......i forgot to count how many times i flawed........mostly when i think i know market..........i am humbled to basic.........fortunately like cat has 9 lives........again i move. Humilation ,to face it........discipline ,recoup energy and walk again.....is i posses as trader
Originally Posted by sumosanammain
I beg to differ in just one of the lines.
We cannot win if we feel we are fighting with self/other traders/markets....
Why fight... just flow with the movement, its possible you may take multiple small losses before getting the trend right, but thinking of the mkt as going to war with other traders and trying to battle your way to victory will make things more harder than they really are
..........................................
Thanks sir,
this view is because.............we r by birth not at all trader,......say first doing ur swot.........u know what u r,......so from somewhere u r transforming u a trader.
First i am giving a hypothetical case,.......a math postgraduation topper, shifting to a trader. As to learn trading,......it takes time,........so u r doing some formula - model to know ,what may work as a trader for u.
U may choose.......arbitrage model, or simple random mean reversion, even excel based fundamental equity based.......forecasting proforma model. Now u find , based on actual what is gap,........ie. error,.......but being trained mathematician,......u cant take.......possibility for absolute number to change, objectivity works for u,........but since system itself is variable,.........u have to understand.........block with number itself is harmful for ur development as trader,......conceptually to take 300pt up, followed by 450pt down within 3 days......tells either ur programming is wrong OR ur mathematical idea-notion is wrong.............this is a type of internal fight.
similarly u understand........u have u learn certain thing,.......but time constraint or other priority ..........makes u choose...........so again come fight against U.
Next i am telling my chess case,.......in chess as i have learnt in childhood.....understand pattern , but for competition...........u must fight till death,........use ur best defence skill ......when playing against GM.
.............now understand the problem with me,.......i was known as av chess player........my rank was within single digit,in my state in 1975.......and after that with chess study of 10 yr.........later i am shifting to tradelearning,........
YES u r not supposed to fight,.........but i can not take loss,.........simple a trade loss is nothing.........just wont hold it,.........or else face mother of all loses...........a la 5lakh..............i know how much bleed by it.
In trade ,pure small losing trade should be thrown out first...........but due to my different conditioning i showing fight back attitude,......create trouble for my trading a/c..........this i call fight within self.
.................................
Yes against other trader means opposite direction u have to commit with money.
But against Market...........particularly flow of FII?MF.......i should be with nor against them.
FOR stopping newspaper/tv .......only to follow by price..........it takes me lot restriction .......more than 3 yr........here also i faced internal fight in mind.
...................
hope i clear my view.......So far flow with flow is best........but is difficult for me
..........................
Originally Posted by vijayvaliya
can you share your thoughts on portfolio management?
.................................................. .....................................
This is the topic.......i am interested to learn. Definitely some indians know it , i have not seen to talk ..........literature may be strictly secret.
Bookish View;........dont put egg in one busket.
3 case scenario..........cash -bond- stock
Ur edge-risk taking capacity,holding period.......interrelation,alfa/beta
.................................................. ..................
Actual case sofar i smell.........sector rotation
when risk is higher........u may sit on cash.
if u dont know, u have to learn..........make no investment.....be cynic.
better be contrarian.........atleast against media hype.
Simple strategy of playing aggressive on winner gives better return.
Savant/Traderji/AW10......may have some idea........they may help, but in public whether they shall post?.....i dont know
btw...........PMS persons in india .....some pie chart......with least inter dependency sectors.............r wrong thing to copy.
Only literature i have seen by Mr Boucher.......trainers of fund manager
sector rotation is a simple concept for efficient market.......many MF cannot totally get out of market , and they actually put back in some sector which was dumped earlier........normally cycle varies.........10month to 20month to moneyflow back in a sector,........also swing flow is possible 1month to month gap .
Playing aggressive on winner.........MM strategy
PMS ...portfolio management service
Pie chart........representation by circle , fund allocation....bookish idea of 1952
Mark Boucher.........authority on practical appln of financial managent normally trains billion $ handling fund managers.......in 1994-2002.
search in suitable place like 4shared/tradingmarkets........u may get it.
the logic of risk management and simplicity in trading is absolutely right.
But for stock trading.......pms exists ........and believe me ,fundamental really counts.
Result of stock/news has some role to play.
its the big fish .......they decide market.........so from certain characteristic & moneyflow u can with high accuracy tell.........where in particular direction trade is possible.Infact ur theory best work in forex........u may play there.
..........we study Trend to understand ..........trend reversal in near future possible or not..........so that's an oppurtunity.Be ready for possible scenario.
Again by seeing a Trend , check if in higher timeframe Continuity is possible(highly probable)........so that we shall not exit from a position,........if momentum also supporting then we may add........in Trend continuation.So trend itself not imp.......but Trend continuation -trend reversal.......chance of each of them happening and moving the same principle to higher timetrame........key theme of usefulness of trend.
when u understand trend exhaustion ,,,,,,,,,,,,so money making possible.Actually another 2MM principle is imp......Marginal trade & opputunity trade.
Marginal trade concept :you r in a position .......trade move in ur direction, u earn by booking profit..........only to see later ........trend is continuing ie. by simply holding u could have earn more.So u have to consider ur trade profit potential by creating ratio by profit booking ,divided by total move of stock in just next highertime frame.
OPPurtunity trade concept : here u r holding some position , so u r seeing some new oppurtunity , since ur money is blocked........u can not enter in potential trade, after some in ur time frame.......trade is making desired profit,......but for its on paper ,as u can not take the real trade,so restraint of fund .Similarly 3oppurtunity comes ,u put money on 2,......after some only to see thirdone gives better move.......alas for u its again a paper profit........TRADE oppurunity .
Elimination of this 2 mistake can improve ur trade return dramatically
A child even can earn with Discipline , when its long term Bull market starts,by utilising 2weeklyMA with 8weekly MA '........its a tool to suggest for bull market arrived and shall exist atleast for some time.
Counter-trend system is a traders tool, algother in different market context.For short term reversal study,5day DEMA .....its slope is sufficient to tell ,when the market is changing its characterisic.For oppurtunity search , even simple Scan based on 10d William%r ........is sufficiently ok to give u ,candidate to Right trade.
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when market enters in volatile zone,............its futile to use trend/nontrend systems.
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to earn......believe in own system & use stop,........or simply switch to different system which work in present market context.
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understand context first, u have data ........just see WHAT its telling.pl believe KISS
........recently i read in professional traders' coaching .....this hypes r created to serve illusion to newbees to lure TRADING IS EASY.....ensuring suppliers of fools,.......so the industry can earn,its a coldblooded fact in industry, as if indian solders were cannonfeeder in 1st world war for britishers.
imp of basic programming for trade learner
.................................................. ............
if u ask me whether as a trader,..........u give programming or mba which comes first...........ofcourse programming . but programmer must know trading first.........so it creates oppurtunity to isolate.......wrong trade vs. profit making trade .
It cuts out sensitivity in trading and develop objective view.ASK Traderji why he is great ?........ofcourse mastraders' programming skill help them to reach icon status. so price speaks for them.......what may happen now.............Next various scanner search /give them oppurtunity in real time,.......just like a sharp shooter fights against sword champion from a distance.......... SO WINNERS R EXPECTED ........mind it many extra night they r awoke to prepare /test the tools in market.
the problem of new learner........they dont know what is winning idea in present market.......so their programming skill fails , instead what if scenario preparation, should study.........background of price movement.......from stable to a new zone,........after that high/close and X function and some strength study formula preparation can make a candidate for trial-trader
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Many yr back 1995, bhel-hardwar.......in the month of June ,in an open bridge tournament........on the 1st day of tournament, candidates r offered 2problems to solve..........prize 3000/- and 2nd soln giver to get 1000/-.........timeframe within 2days.
We r being in BHEL Quarter/guest house.........& mostly tried to solve them.Kanpur IIT team tried really hard,.......Present India top players of Ankeleshwaria.......and his partner really spent good time,.........novices.......were dreaming to get prize, sleeping at wee hr.Since i am with new partner 60+age, i have to mug system........so i admit to fail. After first day,........the prize money was not yet claimed, i hoped to solve it,.....Alas my partner pulled me out,..........as we r in main swing , he told me to concentrate further,.......to practice some tips......so i went back with him in an ashram where he was staying. Yes next day we played well,........sufficiently confident to win a prize...........i went back to Dehradun , highly proud, as some great name like Mr S Gupte offerred me, ........also some other businessman offered to join in professional group.
.....................Yes that was my first top winning tournament in bridge,.........but i knew now its shear coinsidence, i executed well, my partner........60 + , handled disciplined part, and we r lucky..........as most young/top callibre players r wasted their TIME .........to solve mathematical puzzle of null event.[1st problem has no soln]
I myself experimented vector modelling[being BE(MECH)] to solve,..........market price mathematically...............knowing now its big
nly KISS works in market.this is actual trading.
Theoriticians r ...........just to be avoided in trading
To understand view on stocktrading , just see the win of final match of Vishy......Topalov a child, The game idea is of SSganguly.......black creates a drawish style,......a simple ...Ba6......later Bb7........a poisonous La Dragon.......Topalov forget.......Anand had played many aggressive game in younger yr,......so small positional element,backed by a surprise ploy......f5 ,really can outwit on board. This style of SSGanguly is unknown......to many so called best rated player[read squant].
....................after stoploss, only 2 things r left..............leverage on winner,keep urself with healthy attitude..................for av learner, reaching +ive expectency ' consistently earning out of market..........brings further quest.........bringing big winner. here on he become a discreationary trader(i know some of my friend dont like this word)......winning trade is a filter.........and he adds if he finds momentum /accln in volume or quickly reaching target.........yes this alone give u high return.........just check yourself with trend continuation idea.
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Healthy attitude........starts by questioning do i follow trade journal ?my right trade how far due to my execution skill/market favors me randomly........
next is how far smoothly i can trade and can it be transferred to others.......or otherwise unique to self.
WITH THIS WE R COMPLETING TRADE LEARNING.........next is practice.do it urself
In short term trade ,we search for bias ........bias for direction. imp is pivot.........pt of conflict.......known seller /buyer may take position to test market........based on their system.........actual system of earning is ........how bull/bear is losing battle ......so comes Oppurtunity........say yesterday,,.....upside conflict at Nifty 5280.......tells me many 3% probable upside trade exist for monday 5th april,but which has potential to go 8% ........they r to be taken.
Remember the flowers idea.........its the continuity ........breaking of higher pivot.......potential trade exists.
problem is in daystyle ........many may buy there,where as higher timeframe players r actually fading............so unless u know beforehand who may win..........mostly u shall in loser side,including self.
so u have to add some filter say simple 20dma with a some 1/2 hr price bar for continuation + volume accln filter..........u see winning trades r looking at u.
.........
a core pt r presented here.'how to lose money in stockmarket'......pl avoid them
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1]Trade in options without understanding and context of present market condition
2]not use stoploss
3]Cut your profits short and let the losses run
4]Select a method and start trading it because you are in a hurry to trade, not because the method is sound
5]Don't use any method or plan at all! ... Just buy as much as you can or short as much as you can
6]Take a position and go to sleep!
7]Listen and trade according to CNBC calls........JUST REVERSE ,ITS GOOD EARNING METHOD.
8] Never use your own brain for trading ... Never try to learn anything but taking position and squaring it off! Search extensively secret underground sources for TIP ...
9]Trade against trend ..........BUT THIS IS ONE OF MY EARNING METHOD.
10]Engage in extra-curricular activities during market hours AND Forget your commitment of trading seriously/mindfully .
11]Always assume that you are always right..even when proved wrong..take it as temporary setback and start with fresh vigor resuming your assumption that you are and will be always right..
12]There is only one rule....that is....TRADE WITHOUT RULE.....you will reach your goal.
13] If the basic hypothesis upon which a trade is entered does not exist, then one has to remain in the trade, hoping the situation to get more worse!
14] Emotions aka false ego....
Emotions aka i know all i longed/shorted this script and its going to follow me,i longed/shorted this script coz i know all about markets,always remember markets are not supreme,its the false ego in me.
.................................................. ....
Avoiding the methods of losing money mentioned in this thread would be quite helpful to become a successful trader
so as per modern concept key idea is
1] understand sentiment of present market
2] psychological neutrality
3] effective risk management
4] add/leverage when right.
5] where to put stop....../when not to play
6] preparation.......then only u can execute.....u have to develop a system which suits u
7] learn to play in atleast 3 types of market.......trend UP /DOWN ; VOLATILE , SIDEWAYS market.........mixing of them can be learnt later.
use very simple indicator..........but master over it.understand......price variation can be reflected in them.......so that......by seeing change in Indicator........u can develop to predict Right side of chart.
MA- X simply suggest trendliness, momentum tools use for strength.......support/resistance breaking tells us about future of a stock.
8] future of NIFTY and MONEYFLOW.......comes before everything.
have expressed nothing on risk management.
if u ask me personally.........i try check whether high probability exists.
for intraday ........if i see , i am not getting my target.........time stop.
For swing , depends on particular stock..........time/particular % fall.......stop triggering
for intermediate term......its the fundamental reason of trade /or sudden big reversal .....then i trigger stop.
Naturally i have different A/c in broking house for that purpose.
For first 10 yr...........i have various approach and fouling.........not now.
If i am not on screen , no intraday.
If i dont understand reason behind trade, no trade.
.........so taking less trade,is my main risk management technique.
This marginal trade and oppurtunity trade r excellent money management concept........an advance level learner on market practices.......first one is how much more he can squeeze out of same trade.opportunity trade in mm is spill bean concept.........both r subjective.
By the way, similar name trade exists ........both r used by momentum traders.......a volume set up , then a trigger on price......a quick small profit execution.u can do it mathematically.
'Execution' (or say implementation) is one area which has taken many years and money for me to tame. Over a period I have managed to create a system which is devoid of interference of various functions of Trading and portfolio management.
Having read various books on related subjects, the basis of this system is dervied from a very simple and a small book titled - Six Thinking Hats : Edward de Bono. You can find jist of this small and wonderful book on the net.
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after trade analysis/pms...........in which hat?
i guess it.......combination of some hat,......by the way redhat is always NO in trading.
can u elaborate little bit,.......ur thought process is excellent and there is Totally NO Fouling.
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...........let me tell all,.........i am old now...........success dont attract now,.......In my younger days ,whether clearance of Upsc,national chess & bridge..........i was B grade,......perhaps in single field it would have better........since i enter market 1990-91,and enjoyed TA learning.......may have got some AV success in trading,as i worked as small project manager,.....a project takes normally....2/3 yr..........i have seen different type of life,work in private-govt & then undertaking.........have seen manifestation of indian life.
Now comes -side,being trying to upper grade,........i am not at all best in anything,......as i was before computer age/given priority to understand human nature...........a not so good in representative skill.
Since 2003,.........due to some injury...........i have occational memory lapse problem.
i know what i was..............at present not even 10% of my memory/sharpness,......
so i sometime play chess/bridge to keep myself happy........probably i have not learnt any thing new apart from some job/finance in last 7 yr.
Similarly i feel achiever's curse ........as next generation potential /view on life different.
So i know........i am nobody now...........and help sometime someone knowledge........
................this fact of life i shall carry .........
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Oilman how to trade breakout? When to enter and exit. Entry is harder to identify before that hugh wide range bar,what are ur views? How to identify stocks for this method.I have learnt a lot from u views. Also exit take place on first sign of weakness I have learnt in hindsight, since am new to this style of trading. Additionally guide me on some additional material on this.
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http://www.traderji.com/data-feeds/4...paid-feed.html
http://www.traderji.com/options/1183...d-options.html
http://www.traderji.com/brokers-trad...gger-work.html
http://www.traderji.com/software/229...e-trading.html
http://www.traderji.com/software/425...tml#post457871
.........Answer to this..................................
yaap i believe & traded this .......basically potential intermediate term trade.
........
since u have asked.........see Chola......its move from 62/-------90/-- presently 150+
case 2.........MERK........build up 410/-.........presently 750
case 3........apollo hospital..........u can see all cases in EOD & weekly chart.
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basically its @potential resistance how its happening ........that chance of wide bar......and follow thrugh.
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Actually to study failure , u can see abhishek .......18/- break out attempt failed , presently 16/+.
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i have studied this through tradingmarkets.com in 2002
1] only 2 vendors i utilize........viratechindia & abatrossoftware/chartguru.......
i dont use any backfill etc,......brokers terminal 5paisa/ventura1/indiabulls i use.
Reason i reqd.......some bias/edge to trade, which r normally fulfilled .
thread 2, i dont trade option.........sorry no comments.
thread 3, stoploss trigger works well in indiabulls. for others 2, reverse order to be placed.4th one.........here cv's view is right.
define ur purpose,......i prefer meta/omni.
my experiment with adgeteod/mtpredictor not good.
since studying beyond technical analysis/creating some condition for biases r helpful.
I do some preliminary check through equitymaster.com
......
on experimental basis to create EDGE ,WAY TO TRADE........pl follow.
............
Personally i give immense stress on psychology/probabilistic analysis .
.......
Basic of breakout trade is some market condition.
Also some stock sp behavior.........this 2 i say as SET UP.
now in set up , u take a position............
mind it, its a potential........so failure of not happening is high........key word is how handling resistance,.......go to smaller time frame,......just see how things r unfolding.
.........so potential candidate has high probability or lower one ,u can follow.
BOOK loss on failed one,
Now the key.........while wide bar forming in your expected direction simply buy in BIG volume.
Example......see HPCL eod,........position at 340-350 to be added to make quickly 100/- per share.
.............
so i try to help though nobody can help one unless change happens from innerself.
Its the confidence.........one should have to take the trade ,actually price behavior study @one time frame lower than ur trading choice ,helps to understand whether potential Resistance can be broken or not.
read Ryan .............his site smarttrading.com........if u think to master MM
Be a student of FRM.......financial risk management
for simple learning KISS on risk management/money management.......be a member of paid site
www.masteroftrading.com........where good pro teaches .
USE stator-afm as software if u like.
................
Hope it solves the problem to learn
No in trading , u dont have to be genius , but a copy master. Copying what is done already and try to protect u from already proven failed system IS major part for in journey of a trader.
Next is what fits u.when u get by using a system ,however peculiar may it look by others, if its give u consistent money atleast for 1 yr ,in real time trading,........that should be your edge,Now with discipline stick to that system in proven market condition.
AGAIN prepare another system .......not for its betterment, but which may work in future changed market condition.
Trading is not a place of innovation,already more than 120 yr enough experiment has clearly put in black & white.........what works.
Since u know chess,.......i shall quote great Mr B ,......who suggests playing against ladies is easy. as instead already studying/assimilating great works of past masters.......they obviously introduce.......new idea , which is basically 3rd grade.......can be easily defended by Masters.
So in present if u really want learn...........learn on how to play with volatility.
If experience & practice .........then its ART , but innovation is strictly unnecessary
To explain further,
why i loss in option,...........as i am ignorant.
Why i can not follow arbitrage...........i am poor to understand.
Then how i shall earn from market..........its because i have speculative directional idea, which, when confirmed by price is an oppurtunity .
So today i play for Arvind around 4% up ,taken entry..........get out @ 7% = 3% profit.
...........
This is because , by playing many yr chess ,i can find here lies my strength.
Chess has given me structured thought process, what to do NOW........its no way with intelligence.
As alternate scenario always to be evaluated ,........so change in situation(read market condition can be easily exploited)
IT teaches value of offence,as well as in case sudden scenario change u have switch in defensive mode(read stoploss activation)
Third thing it helps to use patience .......not to play aggressive ,when situation is not favourable.
..........Since it takes of 10 yr learning to play in national level.........it helps to start my journey to be new student of market ........for atleast 10yr.......being slow learner its my 20th yr.
....................
only drawback i find is stubborness .........
Hope it clarifies
Hi oilmann
you are a good trader, but not a great trader.
DEFINITELY.
As I know, you are an open minded person, you may also follow some times some scientific resources and lectures.
HAVE I NOT TOLD TO BE A BETTER COPYCAT.
In the past, most of the persons thought, that chess players have a higher level of intelligence than other peoples have and they thought, that chess players are doing every thing better than they do. You are an other living example to that, that this is a mare.
ITS MYTH
You do not most good in trading on what you are doing in trading.
YES ,U R RIGHT AGAIN SIR, IN MY YOUNGER DAYS WHEN I HAVE 25-30%RETURN, YR AFTER YR ,I DONT TALK........JUST EARN.
If I do five hours a day chess playing, I will get good on that. We can train old and young people on that subject and the results are always the same :
NO MAN IT REQD A STUDY OF ATLEAST 5 YR, CONSIDERING U R EXCEPTIONAL , TO PLAY IN COUNTRY'S NATIONAL LEVEL.
They get better on that subject and they do not get better on other subjects. It is a mare, that chess players are more intelligent on other subject, as they practice most time on chess playing.
So, traders should spent most on there times on trading and not on chess playing.
ITS TRUE
And if they spent there times on practicing in high volatile markets ( as you already recommended it and not only make nice words, to purpose hidden thoughts behind academic verses, which not even belong to there culture ) with different derivatives, they will become excellent on that and not in chess.
STILL I DOUBT,.....IT TAKES ME 2 YR STUDY & LEARN VOLATILITY PLAY ,WITH DIRECTIONAL BIAS.
SO THATS SUGGEST 1 YR ONE SHOULD LEARN.
.................................................. ........
REGARDS
(CAPITAL LETTER MYNE)
..........................As Dan mentioned that we all have certain set of traits / personalities and eventually we settle our trading methods to it.
For me too (I guess with most of the novice traders too) the initial failures could be attributed to the clash of thought process within self. There is no firmness to the thought that goes in the mind once you intiate a position, hence a short TF position would become a long term investment if the immediate move was against the position, similarly a long term call would be closed immediately looking at profits. And here it all starts - the chaos in the mind, which continues for long long time, until there is a concentrated and focussed effort to address it (which again I have rarely seen people try). The more the chaos, more deeper we go in and harder to come out.
Nevertheless, coming to the point of matching trading style / method to our personalitiy / traits is what we should aim first. But in my opinion things should not end here, infact start from here. It is not imposssible to be a multi facet trader. Yes it is not easier either. Refering to Oilman that we need to find different models / plans which may not be improvisation of our existing methods but altogether different. And this is what I call Research. Looking out constantly to new things, finding them, testing, improvising, customising and then making it suitable for ourselves or else then rejecting if it does not match our beliefs.
Coming to Dan's remarks (don't recollect where he had mentioned those) on my trading style, I do it all, from being long on stocks (primarily contrarian stocks- holding over 9 m - 1 year or beyond), do the momemtum plays, indulge in hedging strategies (through F&O), go directional with Index Futures, and also sometimes a raw specualtor by buying deep OTM stock options (aka jackpot options).
It has been a long journey friends, but I am happy that I could manage and still able to handle it quite effectively (...efficiently..I do not know).
tnsn2345
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www.disciplinedtrader.com is a good site to start.
books by Van tharp can also do well.
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if nothing available READ way to trade,.......an excellent start pt.
Next.......read POP phantom of pit.
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Alternate idea......Believe it is not possible for normal human being.so u r taking extra care to learn it.Its because we associate ourself with success/win .Instead anchor u to follow discipline/systematic trading.
THIS is nothing but a writen documents .....for set up condition in market, entry trigger, exit at profit guidance/exit at loss if situation is not favourable.
Next study.........trade journal to create some guidance for behavior modification.
.............After this we join to RESEARCH as mentioned by great Tnsn2345 .
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