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oilman5

Well-Known Member
#31
create a strategy that suits u......firm grasp on mm.get organised......visualisation is necessary.
fa is anticipated expectation of supply/demand based on some news flow.if demand increase price shall have tendency to move up.interest rate declaration and employment rate r 2value.......past trend,last data vs market reaction and current expectation........3thing u must study.......with probable case scenario.
note....a nominal rate hike may execute to hold inflation.a rate hike is detrimental to index.
......pl study gap to understand when reports come out
know ur opponent if u want to survive in market.use patience and when to fold.a pro knows throw away loser.......search for winner..again.understand risk reward.study market daily.ta helps for timing.develop a particular timeframe playplan where ur guessing and execution is superior.trade evaluation is must,..its is key.if u play breakout.......chance of failure ...very high.......never forget it.std pattern of reversal............a good tool.........to guess how others r seeing market.
build ur confidence in exit as per signal.........simply execute , dont hold......here novice and pro differs
football analogy and mometum..........bull bear character can change any moment,.......a match is exciting as anybody can win,......but as spectator,a pro/gambler...bet on who can win......not whom u like.its ur experience to watch........over many match.....ur cool judgement ,personal idea as player.......develop a sense to bet rightly after seeing fast few min of match,......understand momentum and reserve strength[spring coil action in price]....be a cool calculative head.
understand realistic profit target.pl see how momentum is fed in a stock......if its fading.........get out.
.............
one of the interesting pt..........after reading lot of ta literature....what they have in common?.......study of close price....its bias.......yesterday high low........can they help to predict tommorow.......NO.......BUT THEY SUGGEST IF PRICE X SMOOTHLY LOW......AND WITH MOMENTUM,......-IVE BIAS IS MORE ACTIVE,......SIMILARLY IF HIGH IS BROKEN ,MOMENTUM BUILT UP CAN BE SEEN.......NEW BUY ORDER IS COMING,........DEFINITELY U SHOULD JOIN AS BULL
...
fibonacci is good tool.........both for retracement and price projection.
basically as watcher of price wave............ur duty is judge how easily it break some resistance,.......or how smoothly price falls before bouncing
when price begins to fall from trending high,.........u must get out.......earliest u sure by confirmation.
similarly be ready to enter when downfall stops.......only after confirmation by price......u must have some systematic approach,pref mechanical to do it.
......its the essence of execution
for break out play use strong momentum candidate...in overbought zone........only break out possible ,.......mind high risk,low probability
recent example...........thomas cook
........always have a check list before trade,.........if u feel uncomfortable just reduce trade size
rsi as an indicator...........
learn when to use as contrarian tool
chart pattern recognisation.........
it helps to pull the trigger easily........however no method is infalliable
.......bullish pattern
bearish pattern......
continuation vs reversal pattern
...use pattern recognisation software.........for throwing away subjectivity....and scanner
weekly support resistance .........another good tool.
...........
a developed sense on turning pt........
i someway follow rel strength comparison........though psychologically find dificulty in entering days high.......due to numerous previous loss.
at swing pt reversal i can enter in known stock.
.......an entry of 5lakh value affect me........upto 3lakh good judgement observe.......
around 1lakh.........its easy to handle multi position
with ur permission i shall write here.
stock picking is an art...an experience hand can do it.
fundamental data gives the potential of future betterment.for a different industry ballgame is different...futuristic business up has to be seen in light of profitability.
so some idea...on a sector.
hospitality and tourism ....on hotel.
theme of cram...export
banking...rate of interest...npa
............
next comes ta...its the reflection of price......what present traders r doing..
how far they r bullish?
here most traders make mistake........they presuppose to guess..[hoping accurately...forgetting its a probalistic model]
its only DIRECTION CAN BE PREDICTED. not the target...
judgement must be for continuation[trend]..or reversal[mean reversion]
various tool r used to do same...some of them has superior guessing value.
hence for target...sar is better.
initial plan must be based on low risk strategy...and what works on present market condition.
risk analysis must be done...before entry.
ur news letter ...tradersedgeindia very helpful...
as a trader ur plan is short with trend bias ...hence relative strength plays imp role in stock scanning...
as price reflects all known event....we should spend money to get unknown news...which may affect price
or otherway...we must study reflection of news on price......example.ongc result bad..price holding 910..its moving up rs5/- on monday...opens rs 7/- up on tuesday..holding..by 1300hr..it crosses days open...hence promise higher up...soon break imp weekly pivot 923..and hold 928-929...hence a promising up play,...for all good trader.
.........next factor...how u close a trade...and what u learnt from a trade.
its those analysis makes u a mature trader
AUCTION CONCEPT IS VERY IMP FOR TRADING, NEGOTION OF BUYER AND SELLER ..A VALUE ZONE,HIGHER UNJUSTIFIED A SELL PT,....LOWER AGAIN UNJUSTIFIED BUY PT.
...FOR A DAYTRADER LAST 0.5HR..TIME TO CLOSE TRADE[IRRESPECTIVE OF PROFIT/LOSS]
PROFESSIONAL MONEY MANAGER WHO BELIEVES IN TA LOOK FROM LONGER TIME WEEK/MONTH.....START BUY THEN AS THEY HAVE MONEYPOWER.
normally we all lower price ....use for buy oppurtunity and use higher price zone for profit booking oppurtunity.
in normal condition market stay at top or bottom a little .and stabilise at price equilibrium pt
IF WE LOOK FROM LONGER TIMEFRAME WE HAVE BETTER ANALYSIS TO TRADE
IMBALANCE OF PRICE IS OPPURTUNITY
HENCE PRICE TRY TO REACH QUICKLY TO BALANCE.
NOW TIME TO REACH THAT...IS OPPURTUNITY
WE must study behavior of market to understand it.
define ;RANGE DEVELOPMENT
NORMAL DAY
TREND DAY.....UP AND DOWN [nothing told consider up to put sp idea]
VOLATILE DAY
................
RANGE HELPS TO DEFINE DAY IN TIME
...............
CONCEPT OF CONTROL ; BUYER $ SELLER
................
PRICE NORMALLY GREED DRIVEN IS UP
PRICE UNDER CONTROL OF FEAR...DOWN TREND
MARKET MOVES FROM IMBALANCE TO BALANCE
THROUGH PRICE EXTREME/RANGE EXPANSION OR VALUE AREA..SLOW MOVE
..............
LONGTERM TRADER WATCH FOR OPPURTUNITY, SEARCH FOR A PRINT[REPEATATIVE TENDENCY OF EDGE 'GIANT FOOTPRINT'
WHEN LARGE BUYERS COME PRICE MOVE UP AND WHEN BIG SELLORDER COMES PRICE FALL DOWN.
IN UPMOVES LIKE RESPONSES COME FROM GREED DRIVEN OBSERVER
..................
HENCE MARKET BEHAVIOR STUDY FURTHER BREAK UP 2SUBTLE ISSUE
1]IMBALANCED DIRECTIONAL MOVE
2]BALANCED ROTATION OF MONEY IN CYCLE /FOR SECTOR ALSO DUE TO CONSTANT CHANGE OF PARTICIPANTS PSYCHOLOGY[GREED AND FEAR]
OPENION...Longterm openion of price reflects true value of stock
current value=todays value[all known and unknown openion hidden in price]
its imbalance we search for.....in weekly chart we see value shifting higher to see oppurtunity of longterm buy
range extension[predictive] shows biasness of close,normally in a range day DAYTRADER do active participation[whether earn or lose] at day top and at day bottom
now continuity of price at extension towards end of session provide biasness of watcher[better skilled trader] to put money for future oppurtunity to earn with trend[continuation]
AT CLOSE TIME HIGHER PRICE BUYING ACTIVITY SUGGEST LONG TIME STRONG HAND BUYER ACTIVE [OPPURTUNITY EXISTS TO EARN]
HENCE STUDY FOR OPPURTUNITY TO CONTINUATION OF IMBALANCE IS IMP WITH THE HELP OF 3 TOOL......PRICE,VALUE AND MARKET ACTIVITY
...........
Analysis shall continue in further post
................
wide expansion is good for daytrade.....from range to wider range ...to be watched for
now narrow range suggests 'side ways market'.....
INITIATION OF TRADE
.............................
1.WATCH[OBSERVATION]
2.RESPONSE i]extreme......STOP
ii] favourable[ continue to hold or add]
other factor....problem of hope
3.now study specific case[with past data ,if ieod very good
4. failed expansion....too much too soon
5.trend termination...........trend of opposite....if proffesional fading coming with volume
..............
always ask current condition , value with mean [open high low close..mean] vs close price
HOW LONG TERM PLAY TRADER R THINKING ? R THEY UNCERTAIN ??
IF YES , DONT PUT MONEY......OBSERVE, LET OPPURTUNITY SLIP BUT DERISK
.....so now u test idea
check imbalance & direction of price move.......to reach a value in time and rupee from imbalance to balance.
IF FAILED EXPANSION CAN GIVE FADE....OPPOSITE DIRECTION TRADE[VICIOUS MOMENTUM
NEXT COMES STRENGTH OF BUYER AND HOLDING POWER....VS MARKETING STRATEGY ADOPTED BY MEDIA.....TO LURE THE WEAK MIND IN FORMING A CROWD RUN/CHASE
.....same way at bottom imbalance occur .........if new directional trend fail ? study....
oppurtunity or risk!!!
study neutral day and volatile day
...........................day 1,day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5.......@TOP ZONE AND BOTTOM ZONE
...........R U GETTING THE SIMILARITY ......HOPE NOW USE IT STOCK SP. CASE
now we actually watch this constantly unfortunately positional holding [blocked openion of direction] CRIPPLE OUR READING[ANALYSIS CAPACITY]
...............
IMP OF LONGTERM TRADER, ACTIVE PARTICIPATION CREATES BULLISH BIAS . ON THE CONTRARY AGGRESSIVE SELL BY THEM CAUSE DOWNFALL
WHEN THEY R UNDECIDED , WATCHING.....market stays in sideways
another imp observation ,....one first move fail[neutralise by counter selling] THEN AGAIN MOVE ...........THIS NORMALLY HELPFUL, ACTUALLY 3RD MOVE HAS MORE STATISTICAL UPBIAS .
MIND IT ALWAYS.......PERCEPTION OF VALUE ITSELF IS VARIABLE
U MUST STUDY RELATIONSHIP WITH PREVIOUS DAY/WEEK......WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW?IN MARKET ,IN THIS SESSION ..TODAY....THIS HR??
STUDY BALANCED DISTRIBUTION WHICH NORMALLY HAPPENS BUT AWARE OF POTENTIAL LIQUIDATION PT
a bull is ready to liquidate for profit .......but where??
adding of new info [+ive dimention].....no risk....hence hold further for bigger profit.
but opposite direction move starts.....bull must liquidate to book money profit.
hence excess of profit[desire].....act a new dimention to an existing trade
.......VOLUME TO STUDY....BIG MEANS MORE ATTRACTIVE BUYER OR SELLER
HENCE STUDY AFTER OPENING WITH RESPECT TO YESTERDAY CLOSE .......HOW MARKET IS BEHAVING TODAY [1/2 HR]...CRUCIAL .UNDERSTAND WHAT IS A TREND IN CONTINUITY..
WHETHER IT EXISTS AND FURTHER CHANCE OF CONTINUITY , ON THE CONTRARY imbalance and move to extreme or mean reversion balancing move[no trade oppurtunity exist then]
ON THIS CONDITION ON ACTUAL MARKET CORRECT TRADE EXIST.....AND THIS IMBALANCE AND MOVE TO EXTREME FACILITATE A TRADE[ CONTINUATION TYPE BUY SYNDROME TRADE WITH TREND]
HOWEVER ANOTHER DIFFERENT BALL GAME CHOSEN BY A FEW PRO.
LOGIC..change can happen rapidly .observe[perception change of participants]
normally its dificult to understand change of trend due to bias[ so being minority these pro r in right side of trade,unexpected event due taken care of]
study session 1 hr chart bias & gap fill..session 2 ...session 3...session 4 session 5
similarly in day 1 day 2 day 3 day4 ....day5......WHEN OPPSITE FORCE ATTACK ?
HOW IT ATTACK ........INDIVIDUALS PERCEPTION OF VALUE......MOMENTARILY WEEK HAND GO IN UNCERTAINITY MODE AND ACT FOR SELF SABOTAGE.....THROW AWAY IDEA [IF AT ALL] IN PANIC.......AND supply money to this cold blooded pro......as if natural loser[being weak disciplined person]
HOWEVER STRONG HAND ALWAYS PROVEN RIGHT DUE TO CONFIDENCE[JUST LIKE RECENT ENTRY @BSE14200......]STICK TO AND READY TO BUY , ABSORB AT FALLING PRICE CONSIDERING IT AS FURTHER BUYING OPPURTUNITY
hence perception of same event has 2fold outcome/influence.......weak hand seller and strong hand as buyer
.......as a normal person we r fearful of uncertainity , so any event which has financial implication we watch, and try to derive its influence in short term and those who can think for long term,......size and visinity.....a cluster zone can be created considering upper boundary price tag[target]....and lower zone value [entry pt]
all we know condition affects price.......so plan should be ,
1]change of price up...sell oppurtunity
2]low zone...considerably buy idea....provided new percept not so bad
........dynamics of each case stock specific is different
....hence another idea .....surprise event
unlikely event
expected event ......has to be added
.................
in expected event normally mean reversion towards value equilibrium occur
another 2 factor.....fundamental impact of an event and understanding time frame r imp.
normally higher time frame ,say weekly......has more bias...
however in case an unlikely event ,occurs as a shock, price and its value both move together towards a directional bias until stability
hence give priority to surprise event as it act as oppurtunity
on the contrary if u r in wrong side , book loss early if possible reverse position
......remember for expected event after announcement normally price reacts to opposite direction
THIS INSIGHT HELP TO UNDERSTAND RISK BETTER IN TRADING
buyers /sellers confidence and uncertainity r imp factor
actually buyers' dominance /sellers big volume attack....this 2 greatly influence price and so called direction into 'oppurtunity' [threat to a fool]
wild move suggests thrust, when participant transfer from hesitent to aggressive ...wide range occurs.where as openion based participation without rigid parameter and future uncertainiy cause wide fluctuation [volatility]
hence a feel for value is vital
oppurtunity=price away from actual value
normally price fluctuate above and below value
execute=how quick u can act
depends on how much clearly u can visualise with certainity
always study from long term prospective,..what chance is there from present balance to go to quickly imbalance and stabilise higher[new] balance zone
.....now ask ....will sombody buy at higher,if yes....ok..buy now.
for shorting , if u see big seller may come or not.
hence mean reversion is a good theory to apply in market
..........................
hence u check if at present
1] current market is undervalued or not [strategy]
2]study of imbalance in buyer'side
3]continuity factor
..................
hence reaction to news is an imp study to understand internal strength of market
...........................
confident trader[longterm mature buyer] vs. novice day to day [trouble lover]
...........................
remember current perception of value r always reflected in price
............................
be ready for atleast 2 different event 1]unlikely.....2]expected one
play plan for both r entirely different
for unlikely event,if u r in otherside ,damage is very costly,hence prepare for it,..as then price and value both quickly goes against u,shockingly bigger loss
hence be ready in mental level for it[worst case scenario]
experience helps to understand this price/value/event relationship and expectation of people vs. news and its reflection in price
this i call market dynamics of watchers
hence confidence and uncertainity of watchers[potential buyer/seller] gives only directional bias.with uncertainity more rotation occurs ie. distribution phase
.................................
price distribution study
........................... study of ask vs. bid
1]10 -1030..first half hr

2]13-1330 lunch hr
volume or order flow study based on
3]15-1530[presently upto 16oo]close hr tick data[pib]
.................................................. ..............................
this study of tpo...time price oppurtunity concept u have to do for u [own research]
mine shall not validate ur plan....however i suggest to distinguish to understand
up day
down day
volatile day
.................
first half hr ..opening initial balance with yesterday close
lunch hr...observation of biasness development
closing hr...time to take action
................
most imp is long term holder[strong money] r participating or they r sensing danger...hence selling delivery [distributing] to sit on cash andor taking money out
.............
normally all buyers want to buy low and sell at profit[high]
so categorise buyers......short term and long term in trading percept.
long term trader search for unfairlow price with bigger view with higher holding period
shortterm player search and book profit with quick imbalance
hence when break out style is visible ,ranging is moving up with interesting higher pivot break pt, with perception of imbalance to continue.......long term player put big chunk of money near day end with high bias of continuity
so short term day trade type player ,skillful in execution take its advantage ..with their computer generated signal [an edge to take !%profit] continuously take profit with him as per his comfort level ......he is happy , as his scanner suggest oppurtunity every now and then.....based on %up list/volume up signal /a quick pivot break up.
however for long term buyer its not that easy........he has to search continuity of directional bias , ruthlessly buy out volume at top with money power to prove break out.
hence study on eod /weekly chart of impulse[main direction] and distribution [reaction]..
where this phenomena is going to happen now
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hence i repeat again ,good 1-2 day mometum players use to play to trade in the side of big money player.
some other skillful player trade ..buy and sell in small targeted zone.
however when other players,new players vs. strong money players maintain equilibrium ....
hence plan of small profit with sector rotation occur as equilibrium tradezone facilitates buy low at support and fade at weekly resistance pt.
so long term fund is out and watching as imbalance creation is aim for strong hand......with watch when they found without news some strong resistance zone is touching again and again ,they test with good money power ..can they break it? ,if yes, put it....and pull price price out of that resistance to new imbalance with a hope of continuity ,luckily greedy buyer or fearful short seller, sometimes media with news help them to fulfil target.
this balance area of around resistance line is test ground .....against new buyer by other pro seller or experiment field for short term players, however ...continuity or holding several days over this new acquired land [from bear]....severity of opponent comes down ...as a true pro they leave to win against bull in other stock where high price on top may attract short seller.
corolliary: market moves directionally unless opposite [reaction against impulse]...strong orderflow comes[attack by big sell].
......................
concept of whole [market] vs. part[individual stock]
..................
nifty component imp one r to be checked .....similarly for summation of total effect ie. play plan of nifty.
similarly for intraday........first playplan
i]range is defined ....high/low in first 10min...[for av trader 1/2 hr]
balancing of flow in it.....when and where it showing range expansion.....show direction defined
ii]so verifying continuity of imbalance in mental level
[i do it,u can use suitable software for it]
enter the trade.....as strong order flow is coming inyour direction ,while breaking predefined pivot ........
yes its the real intraday trade.
[ho.................
top,high
I 1UPPER ZONE
I_
I 2MID ZONE,EQUILIBRIUM VALUE
I_
I
I_3 LOWER ZONE ,BEARISH BIAS

..............LET US STUDY THIS FIGURE, KEEP STRONGLY IN MIND
FOR OUR SIMPLICITY WE SEE AS A DAY BAR, HIGH.MIDDLE,LOW

middle maintain balance,some body called mean value....with a random +/- small value
a zone of equilibrium ,trade will try to facilitate near to it.
now total day bar.....dissect in 3 part, 1part top
2 part middle
3 part bottom
hence a daily range divide in 3 sect.......further study of a day activity.
imp thing is close, by defn end of day close defines....after fight by full day among bull vs. bear....final score.....where they maintain equilibrium
some body use crude 1/3 each, somebody modify total range 0-20 top
20-80 middle
80- 100 low
its in percentage of total day range, for deep study of close
i prefer for indian market , top 15%upbias
15-85%middle equilibrium range where fluctuation normal,mean reversion works
85- 100% bottom value for -bias
somebody prefers to calculate with pivot idea,someone with mean range ...top..bottom,
whatever may be chosen ...structure is same .........a top bias ,an mean equilibrium,a bottom bearish bias
.................we have to think now where is close, that way the biasness.
closing on top........strong upward bias
middle zone....any thing can happen
bottom....suggest bearish bias
now after day close.....all news info,new development...money extra available to put market
reflect quickly with next day opening.
as to facilitate trade day trader search for balance ,longterm player search for imbalance....entry idea and exit plan for both of them r different[in longterm we search for continuity]
now this similar concept can be put in hr bar range and weekly bar
normally higher time frame has more influence
however for simplicity we study hr bar here to understand impact on day trade from microlevel,
now on that particular range closing on top suggest we r interested
next hr bar more wide...moving with higher price zone decides to enter bullside..with big order flow coming in same direction
continuity 5-6bar creates a total day picture......with further strong bias
hints....friday close bar study ,close at bottom .....has given me computer generated short signal in my simple 10hr dema,close cut down]
.............role of observant and vigilant
..................................................
all we know ftse market of opening .....affects around 14hr in trading......and opening bias of nasdaq in tech shares.
now beginning must be observed carefully[in fluctuation as well as orderflow]
price must be treated as supreme ............holding of price over a particular value ...in a particular duration suggest lot of things
yes its the secret of trading
hence study of imbalance and test trade r imp.
...now after new price discovery it has a typical tendency to reach new balance , old resistance bounce .....idea of test validity of new price strength
somebody puts in oldway of impulse......and distribution [reaction]....upto a particular retracement value,
however next flow is all imp .......as it gives all important continuity of imbalance.....as seen in pennant and flag pattern
in other words orderflow or new money is vital.
imp oppurtunity occurs if continuiity can be seen,......VISUALISE for higher time frame .
the delivery trade by close........drying the float uplift price normally further up.
some of us in this field of trade experiment put this mean value +/- 2sigma.....a balanced zone with typical past data calculation for 'sigma' value...in this days of statistics,for them monthly once new value based on 20 trade day better.......however i warn too much math make trading less profit worthy....as its the execution and sense of survival that counts after stoping self sabotage,...holding the profitable trade sufficiently take care of u and ur family.dream big should not be motto,learn big and live in reality
.................
normally high value order occuring in the stable zone slowly seen....as all r ready to watch for volume play.market moves as perception of value[fundamental] changes.as all [different time ,different style players participate in market simultaneously view and analysis is not so easy[in fact very difficult time consuming process for me six year to learn and i am putting this hypothesis].......thats why an organized analytical view help.
key component r 1]interest of shortterm buyer[intraday]
2]interest from weekly chart[view from intermediate term]
3]interest of swing style [eod study followed by av
hence organize trade from this 3 element[put 3 different power spec. to see different view
and now give weightage]..........VISUALISATION IS KEY TRADE TOOL, IT ONLY HELPS TO ACT WHEN OPPURTUNITY/THREAT COMES .........otherwise fear/greed put u wrong trade..
put u in info paralysis,courage not to act.......u can be an analyst but not a trader.
larger time player has thats why better judgement,as considering temp fall they can buy in strong bull run.
report publication and its impact change in near term value.......later when bruice die down they enter slowly if long term view is that really good.in all time frame balancing occur through movement of price from quick imbalance[impulsive] to reach next probable balanced zone. volume suggests aggressiveness of participant
study of std 1-2-3 pattern[a-b-c named by others] is always helpful to understand change in value perception
successive session continue ie. biasness of trend.uncertain buyer/seller can not hold trade
linda has suggested first this simple break up of a range bar in 3sect......higher as 1, middle equilibrium and 3 low as down bias......now close gives more mathematical judgement than foolish openion style trade,.....see at close where more activity is ,in tick chart volume by more activity suggest buy by short term moody buyer or deep pocket longterm player .....
study of time and distance move by price clears it......
time when it breaks and move up very imp.
influence of current pice[close of last] also to be seen.close shows final sentiment of that particular time frame ..balance pt of bull/bear.now come influence ........if influence of price towards back[rationality].....price goes back to mean reversion.
if confirmity of irrational by price........up and up or by gap up ......concept of greed or trend fulfils.now most market participant believe [mean of total ie. market majority] it shallmove up....really it will move up.
this is the forward move of price......confirmity.
........................
normally most of time market maintain balance[equilibrium].
short term break of balance shown in long term chart[weekly]...gives oppurtunity when strong money players[biased] participate in trade with a vbiew to hold.
imbalance strength can be studed by volume , price roc also imp.....also study distribution [price relationship]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

majority time after new value discovery price move quickly occurs by impulsive move to reach new stable zone. a forward price driveness occurs in market, based on earlier close and feed by media.among all timeframe player higher time frame has max influence [dominance]
.......................recognisation of trend..............

to define a trend ,a ref pt has to taken..it may be yesterday close ...mean pt. or opening stabilise
another factor,.....market needs time to develop trend [continuation]..ie. market must show some move , then opposite direction force has to be neutralised, then only new direction strong trend move possible .
step 1; study in 'balance area'
so which direction imbalance is building up
step 2; now in relation to bigger picture ...how a trend may form
so fairly low..fairly high] ...which one is breaking with thrust ....govern..move in future
....................
but unless u know control of mind /experience.....hit of moment its not possible
.....Identifying the entry point
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.Observe the relative performance of various sectorial indices for couple
of trading sessions
2.Stocks that fall the least during correction tend to bounce back fast,
so keep an eye on those stocks and the sectors to which they belong
3.If you watch cnbc for 1/2-1 hour everyday before market opens, they
generally discuss stocks/sectors gaining momentum
4.keep a watch on list of gainers everyday, that gives you a feel
of the winners
5.i have also subscribed to trend trading newsletter, that tells me the
relative strength after I select few sectors
.................................Trading the markets is an extremely simple job. If you can control the emotional devils of FEAR & GREED which generally clouds your mind and prevents you from thinking straight you can easily be a successful trader.

PLAN
Stocks can be bought by using this plan only at early stages of an intermediate upward trend
When markets crash and then bottom out and then again start an intermediate uptrend
Buy stock futures of stocks that belong to the strongest sectors and have a high Relative strength.
some other factors also count like,
Quality of management is important. example - you can always bet on reliance
Need to understand general economic environment. example - IT companies who were earnings 40+ % margin are bound to be hit hard by rupee appreciation so avoid IT
mass consumption theme is playing the round - get into sector like telecom
big plans of govt for power sector - buy power equipment/utility provider
after filtering the stock through numerous such criteria, BUY the Stock future
keep a SL at the lowest point the stock had hit during the preceding downtrend
trail the position with wider SL to catch the maximum trend
Strictly no MID CAP position in this plan. Only Large Cap.
since you buy stock future, with small margin and capturing large trend
profits are very high
limitation of this plan is that you need to have a deep pocket
.........I would prefer to buy on strength (upmove]
.................................................. ....................Every trader has to make a judgemental decision wheather or not to close a trade if a stoploss is breached.

If you plan to close positions intra-day if a stoploss is triggered you have to stick with this plan for all your trades. Alternatively if you plan to close your position if a stoploss is triggered on a closing basis then you should stick to this for all your trades.

In the long run the rewards of sticking to a FIXED set of rules will far outweigh the risks.
I generally prefer to trade using charts with raw prices (bar charts) rather than use oscillators (which I consider as lagging indicators since they are derived from the bar charts or prices).

I like to trade charts which have made new highs which can be one month (for short term trend) or three months (for interrmediate trends).

Yes, I love to trade breakouts of consolidations as I have found them to be very profitable with a favourable risk:reward ratio.

I use a database of 100 stocks which I filter out based on volume or value. I then filter the databse for stocks making NEW one month
.............one of the prerequisites of a swing trade is that the stock should be in a strong uptrend.
Three main criteria to pinpoint potential Stock Picks

A history of consistently strong sales and earnings growth


A reasonable price


Strong price action relative to the market
...........................stock picking is an art...an experience hand can do it.
fundamental data gives the potential of future betterment.for a different industry ballgame is different...futuristic business up has to be seen in light of profitability.
so some idea...on a sector.
hospitality and tourism ....on hotel.
theme of cram...export
banking...rate of interest...npa
............
next comes ta...its the reflection of price......what present traders r doing..
how far they r bullish?
here most traders make mistake........they presuppose to guess..[hoping accurately...forgetting its a probalistic model]
its only DIRECTION CAN BE PREDICTED. not the target...
judgement must be for continuation[trend]..or reversal[mean reversion]
various tool r used to do same...some of them has superior guessing value.
hence for target...sar is better.
initial plan must be based on low risk strategy...and what works on present market condition.
risk analysis must be done...before entry.
ur news letter ...tradersedgeindia very helpful...
as a trader ur plan is short with trend bias ...hence relative strength plays imp role in stock scanning...
as price reflects all known event....we should spend money to get unknown news...which may affect price
think one of the best indicator for any trader or investor to help him/her select stocks to go long in the market is the External Relative Strength

This indicator can help any investor/trader pick the best performing stocks (or stocks that have corrected the least compared to the other stocks in the market) in any correction.

So the stocks .......I too prefer to wait for pullbacks in the above high ERS stocks. One can use a simple indicator like Stockastics<30 or RSI(5)<30
............
Since this correction is induced(forced) than natural I think it is best to see how the market behaves for a few days before making a call on the direction of the market.
............
recntly i read a book on professional trader.........pitbull.
some pt i think useful as suggested by him
.................................................. ...................
1.routine
2.checklist........70stock
3.prepare for tomorrow.........big picture,inflection pt.channel zone and spotting trend
............
his theory on natural /acquired quality

1.gambling feeling
2. good with number
3.how to think and what to think about
4. how to perform under fire
5.money management
....................
trading methodology to suit personality
ur strength............................
.dedication and hard work
hate to lose attitude




.........................ur weak pt
fear of loss
constant praise is reqd
mentally someone must give comfort
..................................................
accuracy factor in guessing
understand to make money learn to cut loss quickly
exactly know u shall fight in own terms
market analysis........how price try to move
10ema as a trend
feel on support /resistance and oscillator base signal
gap play
imp of cash in hand
money flow of fii,mf
3day rule........1..2..3 day up then reverse play
how market react to news.............-news,shrugged off by market..........bullish ...............take position
new high
probability calculation ........trading signal on half hr basis
nontrade day..............watch top for reverse
..................................
ego is worst enemy,divorce from trade decision..........trade only to make money
CONCEPT
.................
1.TRADE OR FADE
2. PLAN IN DETAIL
3. HONOUR STOP
4. WHEN TO PLAY BIG
5.HAVE A MENTOR........HAVE SOMEONE..TO SOOTHE NERVE
6.DEVELOP A METHODOLOGY THAT FIT U.......TRADE FIRST TO PROVE UR ABILITY.
TO BE WINNER............FIRST BE IN LINE OF FIRE AND PULL THE TRIGGER RIGHT
PREPARATION PAYS......ITS ESSENTIAL TO KNOW MORE THAN OTHERS
7.WHERE U R GOING THAT COUNTS..........ie. what u shall be
8.never gamble for large amount........never gamble if u have other priority.....never lack selfdiscipline.......stick to ur money earning plan,good gambler not only keep bet low,but led a rational life also[stressfree within limit]
9.ASSUMPTION OF PRICE RISE IMP.NOTHING CAN BEAT KNOWING WHAT MAY HAPPEN,BEFORE IT HAPPEN .........EXCEPT WHEN IT IS WRONG.
10.KEEP UR PRIORITY STRAIGHT,MANAGE UR MONEY........CHANGE U.
11. TRADER MUST UNDERSTAND GAMEPLAN VS. GAMBLING........WITHOUT IT NOTHING POSSIBLE,DIVORCE EGO FROM TRADING.......FIND UR EDGE AND STICK TO IT
12. value of info..............[inside one]
13.u must change direction of bad trading by first.....neutral.......must stop.......then reevaluate.....where and why wrong
14.dont go for killing trade,........u shall be killed first then,instead learn to take small profit
15.exiting a losing trade cleans head and bring back objectivity
16.trading is a full time commitment,personality fitment........plan first with worst case scenario...then improve at what condition with alternate scenario,go detail....in problem get out.........fight another day attitude.auction game .....helps
17. fibonacci,wave theory helpful. read uncertainity well.......it may be oppurtunity
18.never let.......friendship,family relationship get into way of sound decision making about money.......follow written rule, be ready for all eventuality
......................
a view of market wizard...champ
dear amolhg , as u have asked......on pitbull , .....i am explaining.
its gist of book........as interpreted for development of new trader.
1.routine
2.checklist........70stock
3.prepare for tomorrow.........big picture,inflection pt.channel zone and spotting trend
............
he believes in routine,70 stock....watchlist.inflection pt.......probable swing pt.
.........................
next 5pt......must he believes......to be a trader
1.gambling feeling
2. good with number
3.how to think and what to think about
4. how to perform under fire
5.money management
....................
how he gave up his 9yr+ fundamental background........
and way he transforms
.........................ur weak pt
fear of loss
constant praise is reqd
mentally someone must give comfort
..................................................
accuracy factor in guessing
understand to make money learn to cut loss quickly
exactly know u shall fight in own terms
market analysis........how price try to move
10ema as a trend
feel on support /resistance and oscillator base signal
gap play
imp of cash in hand
money flow of fii,mf
3day rule........1..2..3 day up then reverse play
how market react to news.............-news,shrugged off by market..........bullish ...............take position
new high
probability calculation ........trading signal on half hr basis
nontrade day..............watch top for reverse
..................................
ego is worst enemy,divorce from trade decision..........trade only to make money
CONCEPT
.........................
next his direct suggestion and between line concept .....expressed as pt........
1.TRADE OR FADE
2. PLAN IN DETAIL
3. HONOUR STOP
4. WHEN TO PLAY BIG
5.HAVE A MENTOR........HAVE SOMEONE..TO SOOTHE NERVE
6.DEVELOP A METHODOLOGY THAT FIT U.......TRADE FIRST TO PROVE UR ABILITY.
TO BE WINNER............FIRST BE IN LINE OF FIRE AND PULL THE TRIGGER RIGHT
PREPARATION PAYS......ITS ESSENTIAL TO KNOW MORE THAN OTHERS
7.WHERE U R GOING THAT COUNTS..........ie. what u shall be
8.never gamble for large amount........never gamble if u have other priority.....never lack selfdiscipline.......stick to ur money earning plan,good gambler not only keep bet low,but led a rational life also[stressfree within limit]
9.ASSUMPTION OF PRICE RISE IMP.NOTHING CAN BEAT KNOWING WHAT MAY HAPPEN,BEFORE IT HAPPEN .........EXCEPT WHEN IT IS WRONG.
10.KEEP UR PRIORITY STRAIGHT,MANAGE UR MONEY........CHANGE U.
11. TRADER MUST UNDERSTAND GAMEPLAN VS. GAMBLING........WITHOUT IT NOTHING POSSIBLE,DIVORCE EGO FROM TRADING.......FIND UR EDGE AND STICK TO IT
12. value of info..............[inside one]
13.u must change direction of bad trading by first.....neutral.......must stop.......then reevaluate.....where and why wrong
14.dont go for killing trade,........u shall be killed first then,instead learn to take small profit
15.exiting a losing trade cleans head and bring back objectivity
15.exiting a losing trade cleans head and bring back objectivity
16.trading is a full time commitment,personality fitment........plan first with worst case scenario...then improve at what condition with alternate scenario,go detail....in problem get out.........fight another day attitude.auction game .....helps
17. fibonacci,wave theory helpful. read uncertainity well.......it may be oppurtunity
18.never let.......friendship,family relationship get into way of sound decision making about money.......follow written rule, be ready for all eventuality
......................
note....he is known best scalper.
since people loves easy money.......no hard work....not even ready to read good books,forget to buy and learn.i try to gist.............of that 'pitbull'
personally i believe..............all thing u want to become a successful trader........
r expressed in 5 thread........i have writen.
journey....
quality....
maturity...
method.......
system....
adept and adapt.......
..................................
fitting of jigsaw and u into system ........ur part i left for u [any buddying trader]
however gen caution...........trading is injurious to HEALTH AND MONEY
.importance of rationality
8.visualisation is key
10. see how winners behave
11. elements of trading.........ta fa mm
15. trade element
16. write trade diary
30. news play
32. technical signal
44. day.....swing ......position
45. learn from traderji
49. learn from vvonteru
60. my view on trading
Please use discretion on stops based on confirtability and money management plan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------For All:
Remember, We can always make money. But, never make adjustments on how We do business. What I mean is, never move stops. If we do and lose money, we are not just losing money. we will lose confidence. This will affect the outcome of decisions on other positions.
Here I am writing
.
Trade element.

1] you..swot ..time to learn..your natural patiencetime u have..
BELIVE IN REALITY ,NO WISHFUL THINKING
2] marketyour believe on market
your ta tool mastery
your fa tool mastery
info network

3] fund to learn and experiment..
play less analysis more..use diary..
many help available @traderji.com

4] PSYCHOLOGY
readbook of dr elder..
market wizard series
mark doglous
ari kiev
Livermore

5] personality& trade analysis

dr van tharp
dr bill William
larry William
Linda
Mark boucher
Dave landy
RAKESH JUNJUNWALA

6] trade system design
..
Bernstein
Kaufman
Tusher chande..
Martin pring
Technical trade system
Instant profit

7] individual choice
bird watching in lions country
phantom of pit
personal softwaremetastock & omnitrader

8] trading styleits an individual choice

9] recent experiment.

Dynamic trading..and trend dynamics

10] encyclopedia of chart pattern
candle stick chart study

11] most useful concept
..
money management
risk control

12] yet to learn

volatility
optimum stop.

FUTURE DREAM
..
A PROFESSIONAL TRADER AFTER 3 YR


EXPERIMENTAL TA..

1] TREND AND NON TREND BOTH EXIST IN MARKET

2] RANDOM NESS HAS ITS ROLE
ITS AFTER BREAKING OF RANDOMNESS TREND STARTS

WHEN TREND TERMINATESITS DIFFICULT TO PREDICT

3] PRICE PREDICTION AND STOP GIVES OBJECTIVITY
HOWEVER.. BASED ON WHAT PRICE TELLING U MUST EXECUTE

CONTROL OVER MIND MOST IMP.

4] SCANNING TOOLPORTFOLIO CONCEPT HELPFUL

hope u enjoy this view..
this view r personal and suits me
.............................................
75. a view in depth
80. fa
81. some rule
85. how a trader develop
91. some testing idea
93. copy paste from cv
100. views of oilman
105. views of sh50
110. views of some member
119. my critical view after loss
130. my view on ta
142 my view on investment vs trading
145. a sketch for subjective trading model
147. a trade sheet
157. elements of trading
159. time element
160 163 164..time frame
166. subjective view
177. a conclusive view
a layman term i try to explain...........CYCLE
shm........simple hormonic motion .........repeating cycle.
in human ..........born grow......maturity..........death
in company..........start.........growth .........expotential growth.......other competitor try to expand...........a stable position........decay
in ECONOMY BOOM BUST CYCLE
at low of gnp, recession .........bank interest cut........create idea generator. to do business........easy margin ....confidence..........make business click,now further money creates expansion ........creates boom.........growth rate improve........ultimately expansion r parabollic.........fools try to make without knowing what to make........paper business tiger.......unnecessary expansion,excessive supply of creates demand down....further rate rise by bank.......add the balloon ready to bust......inflation show its ugly head.prudent sells share........take cash.......suddenly based on a rumour , panick reaction .........make bubble busts.........slowly recession moves up,....economic growth rate comes down............this CYCLE occurs again again.in stock market we call it bull-bear cycle,trough -peak analysis.
just see indian market.........guess what state it is now
After identifying the trend, we now come to the interesting part of a trade. Knowing when to enter!

There are certain conditions that need to be fulfilled to identify an entry point for long trades.

The 20 EMA should be above the 50 EMA


The security should be above the 50 EMA


The security should be trading(consolidating) between the 20 EMA and 50 EMA

Once the above conditions have been fulfilled, we need to visually look at the charts to identify the following chart patterns:

Flag, Pennant


Symmetrical Triangle


Ascending Triangle


Descending Triangle


Rectangle

And finally, after identifying any of the chart patterns mentioned above, one needs to look for a bullish (upside) breakout out of these patterns for a BUY(long) trade!
.................................................. ................................
After identifying which stocks to trade in you now should have a basket of50-100 stocks in your watch list.

Your next step as a trader is to now identify the trend of the market and the individual stocks in your wish list. Trend can be different for
different time frames. So as a trader you now have to decide on the time frame you would like to trade in!

After you decide on the time frame you would like to trade in you then work on identifying the trend in that time frame. For example if you would trade short term trends you can watch the hourly intra-day charts and/or daily charts. If you trade medium term trends then you look and daily and/or weekly charts.

Once you decide on the time frame you like to trade, your next step would be to identify the trend.

One quick and easy way to identify trends would be to use moving averages.
Rules for Identifying Trend and Consolidation/Correction
If a security is above both its moving average and the 20EMA is greater than or above its 50EMA then the security is in a strong uptrend.


If the security is between the two moving averages and the 20EMA is above (greater than) the 50 EMA, then the security is in a consolidation/correction in its uptrend.
One of the key concepts in trading is the gap between price and value. I first became aware of this decades ago, during a brief lecture by J. Peter Steidlmayer, a noted Chicago trader. Little did I know how many years I would spend looking for a way to implement it in my trading.

It makes sense to buy below value and sell above value. Everybody knows about price - you read numbers on a price tag or look up a stock quote on the screen. At the same time, very few people know how to define value and track its changes. If you can do that, you no longer need to base your buy or sell decisions on price alone. You can buy when value is rising or sell short when price rises too far above value.

Price can be below value, above it, or equal to it. The distance between price and value may be large or small, increasing or decreasing. Few technical traders ever think about the difference between price and value. Fundamental analysts are much more attuned to the idea, but they do not own it - technicians can use it as well.

A trader needs to answer three questions - how to define value, how to track its changes, and how to measure the distance from price to value.

Fundamental analysts search for value in their spreadsheets and earnings reports. The problem with fundamental analysis is that values change slowly but prices keep fluctuating. As one of my students once said: "Prices are connected to values by a mile-long rubber band."

Technicians can use several simple tools to identify value in any market. My favorite method is to use an -exponential moving average - two moving averages, to be exact.

Moving averages identify those levels at which most market participants agree on value. A rising moving average shows that value is increasing, and a falling moving average tells us that value is decreasing.

A faster moving average represents a short-term consensus (20 EMA in this case). A slower moving average represents a long-term consensus (50 EMA is this case). I call the area between the two lines 'the value zone.'

Traders driven by their emotions tend to buy when prices are high and sell when they are low. Once you learn that the zone between the moving averages identifies value, you can aim to buy at or below value, and sell above value
When securities rise too far away from its moving averages it indicates that the particular sercurity is overvalued and is most likely to pull back to area of value which in this case is the moving average.

.................................................. .. find upside breakouts after a period of consolidation a more relaibe BUY signal as this confirms a continuation of the uptrend.

Buying upside breakouts after a pullback in a strong trend is also fairly reliable. This method of trading is called swing trading.

However in both cases you need a robust and reliable money management strategy to be successful.
One of the first steps a trader has to take is identify which stocks to keep a watch on. This is called his/hers watchlist. This watchlist will be the stocks that a trader will analyze on a daily basis.

So which stocks would you like to keep in your watchlist?

Ideally one should always trade stocks that have a sponsor. A sponsor is actually a large Mutual Fund, FII, etc or in other words Market Movers. No matter how good a stock is fundamentally, the stock will not perform until it does not have a sponsor.

So how do we know which stocks have a sponsor?

One simple way is to keep a watch on the following:

NSE - Equities - Most Active Securities

NSE - Equities - Most Active Securities

NSE - Equities - Top Gainers & Losers

NSE - Equities - Top Gainers & Losers

NSE - Equities - Top Gainers & Losers

NSE - Equities - Top Gainers & Losers
...............................Go through the links above every single day and add the stocks to your WatchList. Ideally a watchlist should have at least 50-100 stocks for your daily analysis
....................
sector concept is always a great one
........
2week back........it was oil sector........
this week pharma...........
in layman..cycle.......they r in upswing
 

sudoku1

Well-Known Member
#32
:annoyed:the never ending story.....
a la 'saas bhi kabhi bahu thi' :D
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#33
next i am seeing ...learning of a discreationary trader
......................................................................
MENTORING
...................
it is a process by which a more skilled /experienced person teaches/encourages/counsels a less skilled /experienced one for promoting latters professional and personal development in a friendly environment.
1]first understand what is going on
2]discussion is the method
3]relevency
4]learning a job/skill development
5]ready to change but how?
mission and strategic statement ....aim....strategy..to reach it.
strive for excellent concept
6] concept of VALUING.
.................
MENTEE'S AIM: SUPPORTIVE SELF DEVELOPMENT
relation depends on degree of trust and mutual regard
MENTOR HELPS TO MENTEE TO REALISE HIS POTENTIAL[ ACTUAL]
first aspire...then aspire to ACHIEVEMENT
PLAN:
GET A WHOLE PICTURE AND LEARNING ATTITUDE[ i know little , i must work hard to learn & change myself]
....................
IDENTIFY MENTOR[confidene build up measure]

1] who shall take interest in my welfare and development
2] can he be role model?
3] can he be helpful to uncover my talent or ability, resolve difficult situation
4] aim to acquire new vision.
...........
some concept r useful
........................
concept of a manager....suppose to manage the situation both man and material to the best of interest of organisation & situation
...
discussion type..open and close......
open ...ready to discuss anything
close..ready to discuss to sp. related topic ..as agreed
AFTER LEARNING MENTEE gets a new vision what is possible
then practice to apply
benefit to a mentor
.......................
something monitorily....but actually of trust/more fulfilled ..concept of purposeful
.....................
COACHING...SP. TIGHT FOCUSSED GOAL
TRAINING.......A REPEATATIVE CONCERN TO FOLLOW AFTER UNDERSTANDING....TO DEVELOP SKILL
.....................
APPRAISAL......ITS A PAST OF FORMAL SYSTEM/INDIVIDUAL..TO EXPRESS ONE'S STRENGTH AND WEAKNESS, MAY BE PERFORMANCE RELATED ,TO PROMOTE OPPURTUNITY[ if wrong penalty]
it is also knowing 'matter of fact' ....regarding ones +/- pt
to improve performance
....................
notes taking is a good way to learn
progress and development
.....................................
step 1: getting started ................talk to other mentor/ talk to who has gone through it
reflect upon 'own experiment'
step2:relevent job relaterd experience and skill[u have]
. interpersonel skill to learn and to deliver
a DESIRE ...
AN OPEN MIND FLEXIBLE ATTITUDE
..RECOGNISATION OF WHAT U WANT TO IMPROVE
..TIME AND WILLINGNESS TO CONTINUE
...DEVELOPMENT OF U VS. DEVELOPMENT OF OTHERS
..VALUE OF EXPERIENCE AND COOPERATION
.......................
STEP 3] AREAS OF DEVELOPMENT.
........A] UNDERRSTAND SYSTEM [MARKET]..HOW IT WORK
B] HOW CAN I BE FIT THERE
C]ACQUIRE OPEN FLEXIBLE ATTITUDE TO LEARNING/GOING THROUGH DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE
D] UNDERSTAND DIFFERENT AND CONFLICTING IDEAS/ SITUATIONS
E] BE AWARE OF VESTED INTEREST
F] OVERCOME PERSONAL SETBACK HOW TO WIN OVER OBSTACLE
G]ACQUIRING SP SKILL
H]GAINING OF KNOWLEDGE AND CHECKING ITS RELEVENCY
I] PREPARE YOURSELF AS EXPERT[EXPERTISE IN ANYTHING]
J]ADJUST TO CHANGE
K] UNDERSTANDING VALUE IN THE CONTEXT OF SITUATION ...[VARIABLE TIMEFRAME BY VARIOUS ONLOOKER...IN SHARE MARKET]
SOME GROUND RULE AND A MODEL
.................................................
1]ALWAYS ASSESS FIRST
2]A SCHEDULE TO WORK
3] A 'GROUND' TO WORK[ON WHICH] ...AND WHICH NEEDS FURTHER ATTENTION
4] RELATIONSHIP STUDY FOR EFFECTIVENESS.....ENHANCE ONES KNOWLEDGE ....UNDERSTAND FILTRATION IN LEARNING/MATURING
.........FEEDBACK LOOP CHECK
..................I PROPOSE A 3 STEP MODEL
.................................................. ...........
1]EXPLORATION OF NEW IDEA
2]NEW UNDERSTANDING
3] PLANING UR ACTION
...........
this model pt i expand later
st step ...exploration of new idea
................................................
clarify what to learn
.............................
create a discussion mode friendly enough to encourage further exploration
.................................
be patient
...............
realise with time ...own answer..[resist temptation to tell others]....[ u see the fool in me...i dont follow what i am preaching]
second step...new understanding
................................................
1.LISTEN....yet check and check any new idea if right
2. ask open question and discussion pl.
3.recognise individual strength/weakness
4.ESTABLISH PRIORITY
5. SHARE EXPERIENCE..[CASE STUDY METHOD]
6 BE FLEXIBLE..LEARN TO SEE FROM BACK..AS WELL AS FROM FUTURE
.......ENCOURAGE TO 'SEE' DIFFERENTLY...BUT QUICKLY LEARN WHAT IS RELEVENT[WHAT ONLY CAN HAPPEN..SO THAT IRRELEVENT LOOSE PRIORITY]
7.REMEMBER AN WORD 'COMFORT'...LEARN AT OWN PACE
8. KEY WORD IS CONSOLIDATION...REFLECT BACK AND CLARIFY
9.NEED...GOAL AND ASPIRATION........WHAT IS TO LEARN FURTHER?
...........
NOTE..NEVER ALLOW POOR UNDERSTANDING...TAKE UR TIME...BUT UNDERSTAND THOROUGHLY....AS ACTION OUT OF WRONG/POOR UNDERSTANDING...SHALL BE VERY COSTLY LATER
Third Step...action Plan
.........................................
1.examine Alternate Action And Its Consequence [risk/reward Analysis]
2.choose One Or Two Proper Action Plan...monitor Progress Of Event[price].....evaluate Outcome[later..in Cool Brain]
3. Commitment Factor....[expect Many A Time U R Wrong]
4.evaluation Of Oppurtunity....believe/faith Factor How Far Helpful In This Particular Occation
5.learning Cycle...think Of Experience.....what U Can Generalise From Experience? Apply It........experience Loop
hope all those reading it , find enjoyable and thought provoking.....
but first question is why u need a mentor?.
..........................................
the answer is as mentee needs a support /trust...stress relieve mechanism
as trading is always an uncertain event....
who can be mentor?
....................
who has knowledge , experience and skill in related field............who has vast experience of facing difficulty and yet to run smoothly[what to do now].ie. calibre to face stress
HE MUST HAVE SKILL ...TO BE OPENMIND.+IVE OUTLOOK..GOOD LISTENER...to think and feel how others plan to behave..
.................
hence check the fitting mentor and mentee...a concept i find useful ...
'pentagonal peg and 5sided hole'....a basic job fitting criteria used by professional interview board
Being A Mentee
........................
Accept Challenge ...ready To Learn Willingly And Highly Committed
...believe In Balanced Risk Approach...must Believe Learning Is A Continous Process....achieving Progress Is Always Possible With Time
.............................
Expectation Of Mentee
...............
1.proper Guidance Yet Challenge To Perform
2. Enjoy Friendship And Support
3. Learn From Example
4. Learn From Mistake
5.take Wise Counsel/know To Listen
6. Self Aware
7.share Critical Knowledge
Wrong Mentee
..................
.believe In Gossip[enjoy Loose Talk]
..expect Immidiate Soln[answer To Problem..not Capable To Handle]
................................................
Conclusion
....................
A Mentee Require[need]........
1.a Critical Friend
2. A Confidant[some Sort Of Emotional Support]
3. A Source Of Knowledge
..................................
Matching Of Mentor And Mentee...
Learning And Development....do I Need Training?
............................
Time Management Issue [which I Dont Write Considering Boring To Readers]
.............recording Of What I Learn
..............priority Issue...seriousness
.................................................. ..
Tips For Learning To Trade
.........................................
1.avoid Being Judgemental.
2. Dont Expect To Get All Answer...be Clear About Expectation Vs. Bourdary[concept Of Out Of Bounds For U]
3.stand Back From Issue[over Anxiety]..and See From Back [long Term View]
4.accept Challenge To Learn
5. Always Take A +ive View ...have Faith
6. Discuss Issue Openly And Monitor Own Progress.
.................................................. ..................................
Hope Now U Understand ..the Heading Of Thread.......
....this View R Personal..which I Find Useful In Prctical Project Management And As Amateur Trader
..........................
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#34
here i give a small hints ...how discreationary trading works......
scrip ongc
...............
background : new cmd...old finance hand...know aptly how to handle govt...
luck with him...global oil price high...
....he does a negotiation...price realisation shall be higher...however he shall bear burden of subsidy....ofcourse little less compare to past.
...its standard practice ..good result r publish early...just remember ..annual result published last month bad...
...now comes info...2new tanker of global oil come 2 india...hence profitability higher
as all of us know last 2day ...ongc is moving up.......reason...good estimate of result ...given to fund manager...to has taken small position ...but big holding now...as well price shall not go below...66$/barrel
other scenario...all of us know ongc has low float...so nearly 4-5 big fii can buy to control it...why fii? because they play on oil[crude]..so better ..confident view[it may be wrong]..
now who is major seller...a reputed fund manager...with big money...alas he is losing...[see todays future fig..u can understand]
.....so short covering started.........a big rise expected...in sept result out...
see the call of august.........how bullish....an eps jump of 50% quarter to quarter basis...net profit 2600cr...to 4600 cr,..from march to june 07.
....already ...4 analyst...has given good call to long term safe buy...they themselves start buy...just see..todays volume...cash ...future..delivery %
...situation is promising...as no body dare no short now ..seeing that fund manager's big loss[rumor around 70 cr]
......now u see chart tonight...use yahoo-finance u have nothing...see 5day to see swing...aroon/adx...given buy signal...and mfi is ++
....now the key as a trader shall u buy in cash....
...no better buy...future...which has 8/-disount...or buy all call which has definite cash target of 980 within august....
its definite last high shall be broken...the way nifty recovers today
..........
but cash below 923...stop is must
market again humble me..fii and mf if both starts selling.....only to jump and swim...art of survival.hence never fight market..create a info base..by which danger news come to u...but act or execution...is not so easy...its same like taking bullet out of u in operational table..when u yourself is doctor........
ask any short player ...its d-day.
hence imp. of moneyflow --threat percept..creating panick syndrome...main tool of bear...what goes up must come down
.......dont play break out now...buy at deep down ..after one month..for bear..short and short
...
market behaves as its suppose to behave. in india i find very poor knowledge on trading...particularly to teach trading in real sense...hence i try to do a school concept and later college one...as i am amateur...college course i can not guide nor write...hope some good professional soul help shall come
waiting for a reply
collectively some great heart may also contribute...hey u have to give time -effort-for a cause.
ok i am starting now.
school is of upto class 12...10 +2
...classes can be not a year in a sense,...may be 3month to someone...may be 3 yr to other
class 1,2......10,...may be some of which u already know
...only structure wise differently represented
individual ...student who is ready to learn
teacher...trade mentor.
they r many...successful trader...learned from hard knock from market...like me and still learning...bookidea of some great trader
library...ur soft copy and hard copy
study and learning at own pace.
exam centre...market
pass and grade...money earning
performance evolution..trade journal
requirement : some other book ,reference, software, printing m/c.other dealer
most imp drawback ...time availability and hard work
plus pt/:crystal clear view
...............................
year...does not mean a course can not be learned within a month
class 1
.............
what is stock market....financial system of a country....economy,business environment of a country,moneyflow in a country
stability ..in political sense,..war ...flood/earthquake...acts of god...how behavior shown in past
class 2
............
why one is trading in market?
stock trading system
f&o
...
loss aversion.
willingness to learn and test idea.....where i stand
class3
...........
my plus pt.....my minus pt

how i become a trader?
what r the quality of a successful trader?
...........which i want to......how i shall myself to achieve it.....discipline and behavior modification
class 4
...........

order entry system,market order..stop order..limit order
margin
money management
probability of a direction
low risk trade.
concept of leverage
stop concept
derisk model
scan concept
class 5
..........
market condition,trade entry condition
style of trade,matching of trade style and money earning oppurtunity
importance of progressive stop ie. winning trade must not go to trade loss...worst case it is no profit no loss
class 6
.........
loss due to miss , so miss factor must be considered in the part of trade...ie. efficiency of execution
all bad situation and phenomena ...how to react in each of them
so confusion of deer..paralysis by shock ...is solved....so u can act now
NO MORE WHAT SHALL I DO NOW...AS U KNOW WHAT HAS TO BE DONE
class 7
...........
oppurtunity search..utilise oppurtunity[after grading it]...and encash as per situation availability.
1st case...low risk trade
2nd case...short term trend trade
3rd case... small amount leverage high risk break out trade
last case... random trade
....
exit system
3different case...
1.for swing trade
2. for position trade
3.random trade
...remember all 3 r different class8
.........
fundamental of a stock
why a stock shall move up
why a sector will move up
relation of a business and profit
earning potential..and growth
what starts a business fullmoon ...glowing...now slow decay
...prepare this for every stock in ur list
class9
...........
technical analysis....
gap strategy
reversal strategy...oscillator play plan,divergence strategy
channel trade concept
trend trade concept..ma,aroon...strength of a trend, directional biasness or continuation
class 10
...........
learning of software for trading
scanning system
risk reward analysis
advanced money management
which stock not to trade even after signal...and when not to trade
volatility tool analysis
volume price analysis
since u read so much now time to give exam....mind it its board exam ...check how much u can apply in real market....time 6month...money 10% increase on a fixed amount,say 2lakh..
so u pass..
all trade result to be analysed why taken and in writing...both entry and exit reason and of position size..why not more or less?
how far luck helped u in that trade
how far trend strength is utilised?
do u believe in reversal...while holding trade
after hr analysis of ur mind on actual trade
.............................
so all trade r analized...balance after 6month suggest 10% increament in a/c..u pass
.................................................. ............................................

if failed, reason of failure....and in which zone
reread entire course and amalgamation
so u r in class xi....now
decide to study further in school[u may prefer to..go to earn from market....still i suggest to study further ...knowledge helps
11thyear
...........
system design....where i have done better than other sucessful traders?
...prediction on market
...execution skill
...implementation of system[whatever u think]
...stoploss following...both protective and sar style
...mind control
note..here system design means tuning of system for actual profitability again to score high[earn more]
class12
..........
which type of trade u r master??
alternatives r......
a. investment...contrarian call
b. investment by value approach
c.day trade
d. short term trade.....swing style momentum
e. swing style...reversal
f. position trade...support buy ...consolidation
g.position trade ..break out
...............
now only one out of this 7....to be choosen to trade/invest in life ....others r simply to be erase out[forget]...the best one..u have now,...to conquer world
......create a boundary .........
a discipline..discipline..discipline[here i fail ]
.........only on that condition following /ocurring in market...i shall trade...otherwise no...
and a trade shall be taken...if it occurs...without fault
...this is my class 12..exam..light to see otherside of world
.............................
hi all,
i can not comment more ...as i have not passed yet...
so university course ...i expect big torchbearer ...to throw some light

.....thanks to all
where i stand ?
definitely i pass class 10....some yr back...
but....11 and 12...is tough....here i study and study...time and again i try .
successful traders...have passed it ...thats why they r what they r today .
........
tuning and more return ...compare good with better trader...logically improve further..
...i try to learn from market...
hope oneday i shall pass
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#35
. MARKET...I VIEW IT WAR ARENA..RUTHLESS FIGHTER CAN ONLY SURVIVE.
MY SKILL...WEAPON...BROAD BASE KNOWLEDGE + ANALYSIS POWER
...MY WEAK PT..POOR EXECUTION SKILL & EMOTIONAL DOLDDRUM
SOLN..USE COMPUTER BASED SIGNAL
MERCYLESS STOP
WATCH MARKET BEFORE ENTRY.
2. CONDITION OF MARKET
.....................................
UP...DOWN ...VOLATILE...3DIFFERENT STRATEGIC PLAN ..THIS CASES...
4TH CASE IS UNPREDICTABLE...HERE I MUST NOT PARTICIPATE...WAIT AND WATCH
3. MONEYFLOW CONCEPT.......
FII AND MF...WHAT THEY R DOING...AFTERALL THEY R SMART MONEY
UNDERSTAND RISK INHERENT IN TRADING
GLOBAL VILLAGE CONCEPT..AND GLOBAL FUND PERSPECTIVE ABOUT INDIA
4. INDIA CONCEPT
........................
FINANCE MINISTRY...RBI POLICY...BUDGETARY ALLOCATION...WHERE AND WHAT GOVT...OFFICIALLY VS. ACTUALLY ENCOURAGING[NOT LIP SERVICE]
INTEREST RATE...AND ITS SIMPLE IMPLICATION..REFLECTION OF IT IN STOCK MARKET
5.QUARTERLY RESULT STUDY
..............................
GROWTH UP ..PROFITABILITY AND VISION OF MANAGEMENT
6...SECTOR CONCEPT STUDY...VERY USEFUL..
THOSE WHO KNOW METASTOCK...CAN STUDY RELATIVE SECTOR STRENGTH..TOOL TO EARN WITH EDGE...PARTICULARLY SECTOR LAGGARD R NOT TO BE TRADED FOR SHORT TERM
.....WHILE LONG TIME INVESTMENT STYLE 9MONTH...HOLDING...THEY R WORTH TO BUY.
U SEE THE SAME SECTOR BAD FOR SHORT TERM IS GOOD FOR LONG..PROVIDED FUNDAMENTAL NOT BIG CHANGE...FOR MOMENTUM PLAYER ITS STRICT NONO
ON THE CONTRARY...SHORT TERM MOMENTUM PLAYER...USE THIS REL STRENGTH COMPARING HOW BETTER STOCK IS FAIRING RELATIVE TO NIFTY
another imp. list i find interlink of stock...sector
i find..vehicle..auto ancilliary..bearing
construction..cement/steel price..profitability of builder company[i do this activity,and rarely i good correct...market humbles me]
tourism;hotel..current laggard
computer growth..internet..peripherial sale...computer business model
pharma''..medicine research..hope to click
commodity based stock....with commodity price move up..profitability also..so shall stock price...here again i am a fool, metastock..and viratechindia..good chart..rarely predictable.
.................................................. .........................
7. lists of good company...what i know...what they do...on what condition company profitability move up...its a key arsenal
company based risk...business risk of a company...those who dont know...use www.equitymaster.com
check company's and industry's business model
8.CONTRARIAN THOUGHT PROCESS...MORE A GUT FEEL...A SENSE...IT REQD LOT OF EXPERIENCE TO DEVELOP IT
9PSYCHOLOGICAL FACTOR ON MARKET
.................................................. ...
MARKET HAS TRENDINESS AND ALSO UNPREDICTABILITY ELEMENT. NEWS AFFECT MARKET[UNKNOWN EVENT]........MAJORITY TRY TO GUESS WHAT MAJORITY MAY DO. I TAKE RISK OF PREDICTION BY PUTTING MONEY BUT READY TO RETREAT IF WRONG...WHICH HAPPENS MORE...AND PUT MORE MONEY WHEN RIGHT...[AND GET A GOOD KICK NOW FROM MARKET..WITH 2000SIZE OF ONGC, DIRECTIONAL BIAS..950..BREAK OUT...A GREAT BULL TRAP...A RETIRE HURT CONDITION FOR ME...MY 6TRADING PROFIT..TAKEN BY SINGLE LOSS]
............................
I HAVE TO WORK HARD AGAIN TO RECHECK MY PREDICTIVE MODEL....CHANCE OF BEING WRONG HAS TO BE EVALUATED
........COMPANY RESULT.....20
MACRO ECONOMY 20
MONEY FLOW 20
SECTOR BUSINESS/MONOPOLY ..20
OTHER FACTOR/RANDOM/OPERATORS GAME...20
..................TOTAL 100
CHANCE OF BEING WRONG....40%...WHAT TO DO IF WRONG...IMPLEMENTATION MUST
...............NOW THE TOUGHEST PART' I..' FACTOR...EMOTIONAL DECISION.BEFORE TAKING AN ENTRY I HAVE AN OPENION...BUT PRICE MUST CONFIRM MY OPENION THEN ONLY I SHALL BUY....EVEN AFTER BUY ...WHILE HOLDING..IF ITS NOT BEHAVING AS EXPECTED...I MUST USE [TIME STOP]...BOOK LOSS AND THROW AWAY OPENION...
THIS ESSENCE OF TRADING I FIND TOUGHEST TO IMPLEMENT...WHILE CONVERTING FROM INVESTOR TO A TRADER.
......SO I DO A LITTLE MODIFICATION...REENTRY AT LOWER PRICE[AN IMP SUPPORT LEVEL AND AGAIN TEST PRICE]
SOME FINER PT
.....................
bill checking is must...on sevaral occation yearly 2/3...i find discrepency....as i find trading stressful...i must try level based to minimise it.FAMILY, OFFICE AND MUST BE GIVEN DUE PRIORITY since i pick fundamental scanlist..hence ta is must for my buy and sell.
if psychological set up is bullish i do aggressive entry...and paid dearly many a times...
PATIENCE AND THOUGHTFULLNESS...EASIER TO SAY.....SO CONTINGENCY PLAN FOR WORST CASE SCENARIO....IS THE SURVIVAL PLAN
I Find Support Based Buy In Normal Market...and Momentum Based Pullback Buy In Bullish Market Useful Entry Technique....ma X..identifying Pattern...r My Edge
......stop Loss ...execution Still Lot To Learn
Next Is What Maxm Help I Can Get From Others....and Leverage Skill
....another Typical Thing...i See Tv To Get Result Flash/news...never For Openion...hence I Alone Responsible For My Failure'....
on 9th august...its a copy book case of down day...market open gap up...within 2 hr heavy sell coming...see nifty future intraday...then short is only way...[get out first...if u r firm believer of bull like me a fool]....ftse 14hr...opening and moving down...bad days ahead[atleast for tommorrow]..so those who short on good low risk trade..get an oppurtunity of gap down today
.........ideal upday is just opposite...from opening down quick recovery comes...and then come short covering...close is >50 up nifty.....it has seen....many a time in april..july this year
....idea is trade with bias...directional trade . bias from price...and money flow
recently traderji gives..excellent [email protected] ...idea on swing trade
some scan list...which has shown higher strength...rsc type scanner.
if market move up...which one to move faster up...just compare...they r successful
....this is a good trade style to earn in this indian market.
on metastock based scanner...work on rsc...1week..up with base of nifty..u get the scan list
..hints..go to www.meta-formula.com
....hitendra vasudev...of stockmechanics.com recently advocating this technique.
also our www.tradersedgeindia.com publish a list regularly to trade on it...
it basically ...showing strength ...buy high ..sell higher...trade technique...with good +expectency...a short term trade style
...but unsuitable for timid heart.,support buyer
recent comment by saint...many a system exists...but u have to find what suits u
...is most appropriate
my recent talk with cv...proves to me why he is a gifted day trader...a total dedication..master in his craft....and Zero subjectivity.......high accuracy and implementation technque...derisking in his way..a legendary day trader.
note:never try to copycat him...u have to a highly rated programmer first,an excellent system designer then for a couple of yr......later digest volatility.
he always know what he is doing..........what market may do now
instead for ordinary mortal its better to follow ss[sunil] and saint...they give some idea...idea of high risk in market...when to fold.
now it is safer to trade...intermediate term sky is clear,..keep ur umbrella[stop]..and u can start journey...soon sun shall follow
stick to ur strength zone, otherwise learn...be patient......money shall come autometically
with good oppurtunity.
yes i like this idea,...its better way to trade and live.
.........
to learn better trading joe ross idea r important......also famed writer dr. elder
and in which u sense risk..ur time to react..ie when u understand its time...i am right,now i am wrong.
tripple screen is a good idea to follow.
but stick only to a single timeframe...let me explain.
u think next week market shall move up?
why....what shall the rationality....the buy is coming.
so short term biasness is up.
now go to eod...shift to weekly data...very -/also monthly..negative.
so at every rise stiff resistance shall be faced.
now who shall win....bull or bear...i dont know....but creeping commitment i may start.
why because my defined bottom ...14300 is approaching
where i see top a linear top...16500 can possible .
so this r biasness...it means i shall take to good position on some predefined stock.
and then watch......at some particular price level 15700...how market shall behave...if i smell rat ,get out...coursey hints given by ss[sunil]....+ i have my exit criteria.
but if on rare occasion it easily....x 15800.........i invest ......as sky may look clearer to me.
.........
why not daytrade then ?
...................................
because it takes my time...my time to earn,.....to ask or analyse easy...without in front of screen its difficult to trade.....more over shortterm volatility ...giving conflicting signal.
................
why not swing trade then?
my accuracy is poor...no amount of knowlege...equity curve suggests poor return.
......
THATS WHY I AM RETURNING TO MY STRONG ZONE....POSITION TRADE.
I KNOW I HAVE OCCATIONAL DRAWDOWN...BUT MONEY MANAGEMENT GIVES BETTER RETURN.
SUPPORT BUY...BREAK OUT WITH MOMENTUM ...BOTH IS EASIER TO SEE.
MOST IMPORTANTLY I KNOW WHAT I AM DOING.
........
WILLIAM'S ACCUMULATION/DISTRIBUTION...AND MONEY FLOW...CLEARLY SHOW ON WEEKLY CHART WHAT MAY HAPPEN...
SO MY WEEKLY HOLIDAY CUT OF.....FOR A STUDENT OF MARKET.
......EXPERIMENT ON STRENGTH BY RSC TO BE SEEN....ALSO SWING PT @DYNAMIC TRADING SOFTWARE
hope this will help in journey path of a discreationary trader
...........................
this every book has some uniqueness in it.for simplicity i write 2lines.
Beyond Technical Analysis (Tushar S. Chande, PHD}...a bible to understand system
Bill Williams - Lit (New Trading Dimensions}... it gives new light on market and randomness
Book - Tom Williams Volume Spread Analysis..read it..u see..use of volume ..why?
DYNAMIC TRADER GUIDE ..understand judgement ..price time analysis
Encyclopedia of Trading Strategies ..idea what may suit u
Kuhn - Marder Intermediate-Term Momentum Trading Course ..a technique to trade
Momentum Investing By Ken Wolff ...same in depth..key theme of modern trade
OmniTrader (Systems Manual) ...background of comp.based trade with low risk
Steve Nison Japanesse Candlestick Charting Techniques ..a must
The Daytraders Bible by Richard D. Wyckofff ..how a real trader succeed in market
The Four Biggest Mistakes in Futures Trading by Jay Kaeppel Book ..teaches to keep a foot on brake always
Trading as a business ..a basic but imp concept..for all dreamer
Willam J O'Neils How to Make Money in Stocks ..why buy high,sell higher works..the useful concept of fundamental,stop,cup and handle
...........................
hope all amateur enjoy his view.
.........................................
1. be an observer first
2. learn from own mistake and other mistake......imprint this in mind
3.correct knowledge and behavior modification.
4. preparation yourself thoroughly for entry and exit.....with some superlative idea....what goes up must come down[mean reversion]...it takes time to rise but fall rate is quicker....
clock ..stands for timing....diary ..to write opinion and mistake study
5. behavior modification.....this unlearning process is key.......what works for u.
correct behave is....what to do under unexpected event......not emotional reaction.
6.share market is a loser's game....u must know to survive first.then learn probabilistic approach on right trade vs. learning trade[assuming loss]............add position to winner immidiately...and cut loser earliest whole @ a chop ..
7.design everything to all unforseen scenario....so that u can act while they occur..as its a journey on unknown.....be ready where to exit and when....on what condition........understand...rush problem of public.....in fear and in greed...always act before them.........must get out @ redoubtable top..........same way.....wait for a minor confirmation @ intermediate bottom...then enter.but act swiftly
8. always say.....i am only responsible for my behavior modification,proper observation to trade and correct reaction[execute] to market.i must adapt with market...not vice versa..otherwise sit idle...... i must understand bull trap...and check for it
i must think before i act/i execute a trade......[punch list]
9.sometimes i must look for reverse image[in chess terms look from otherside of board].....and plan for reversing the trade.[this is the toughest psychological hurdle i find to overcome]
10.Initially i should take a small position.........must be swift to liquidate that one if sense....
market proves u wrong.
11. always use own signal only for entry..........but use market guidance to continue/exit/addition ......or even reverse position.
this slow behavior modification is to be practiced unless it became ur 2nd nature......this is right way to trade for intermediate term.
12.when u hold a position ,within a reasonable time [as per ur chosen validity period]....it is not confirming to prove correct........better get out.
.........................
this is for intermediate term future trade
let me demystify a software .....adget for beginner
.................................................. ...................
software helps to enter/exit a trade based on some propriety tools.
1.elliot wave.......4level entry......defining presently..wave3.......so another uplevel exist
2.oscillator...ma x trend continuation....its divergence study
3. pti.....validity of a trade.........its a probabilistic tool.
4.displaced ma.....confirmation of a direction.......actual entry
regression channel .....another confirmation
5.fib.....a gen concept......retracement/profit target pt
6.xtl....basic price pattern biasedness
mob......support/resistance tool
ellipse ..when and where.....high probability of correction completing
...................
validity condition very simple ......implementable
those who have read......livermore and gann......can read joe ross....and way to trade'...by piper.
after proper swot[strength,weakness,oppurtunity,threat]
now time TO read.....SAINT,CV.TRADERJI
....................
hey if u r old guy like me........keep a fundamental hand.........
but true reflection of asishda.......'after i watch a chart.....and can not understand....what state it is.............i should not trade......what is the value of studying ta then?price reflects everything.......
YES SEE THE CHART....SLEEP WITH IT
.......next learn software........here most of us lagging
ur idea can be implementable by trade signal.......not vice versa
......only cv.uasish.sachin chavan.hitendra vasudev.sudhir.sandip patil and traderji can do it
concept of signal/entry /exit automised.
....personally here i defer......as i believe in subjectivity........
amit,saint.....can do this smoothly.....as if its their in blood
.....loss and accuracy ......is random event......but really they have EDGE
...............
the software......one should take sufficient time to learn
.......learn scanner........% of accuracy......here computer help.
...........
now experiment.....which style and time frame u trade better........ur actual result.
stick to it.......with a defined stock list.......
......thats all my friend
......btw.....avoid trap of call giver
how to understand fundamental
.............................................
it depends on who u r......how u want to make money?
if u r normal mortal like me.......read the pro report prepared by good house....ofcourse with pinch of salt
....if u could get info tank..........like arun kejriwal.........u must learn .....news based play on high volume.
.....but if u a report preparation guy.....with cfa/mba......never trade.
u cant handle it.....instead buy on deep correction.....with conviction
...if ur study right......money will double.....autometically
........
but do we know real calculation.......and how to interpret........here my answer is rare event
......most data r prefabricated with biased interest.......
yes i am doing it with first hand experience with audit/project interpolation/viability manipulation ......so projection of future /profitability.......r actully a figure as desired by ceo/cmd......for most of company.......only investors meet.....report.....r viable provided u smell like detective.
.....last 2 quarter must be studied ....with business model and order in hand......ofcourse how already it reflected in price......
yes it has subjectivity......thats why EXPERIENCE calls for.
in india...a report by etintelligence helpful
trade preparation.......psychology
............................................
its the toughest aspect of trading......not because of trade..but due to wrong understanding
....trading is not that tough ......if u have learned right step......but next to impossible....if u r av joe.....in life ..and follow crowd mentality....whether live in urban/protected trade atmosphere.
.....let me clarify.
remember.....dancer's story ...of telegraph trade......he is cut off......so he gets what he wants to know.........and when he comes near by......lost all his touches.....a rooky trader
.....again get out......atleast his break out style and quick loss booking and reentry has good follower.......in golden age.....in upcoming bullmarket
.................
so fact remains.......u have to independent........trial and tested method to fit u.....which must have +ive expectency
.....for day trading....i personally feel its easy......as u should trade based on software[most suicidal nature......you....is nomore available to damage u......
still u think u r the genius , know better than .....then go give patent of programming.....earn by selling it.
best of best......use some signal.....a biased directional play.....a validity of continuation...in big volume.....and earn by accuracy.
to reach that level trader practices day in day out .....system implementation/back testing
and..simple mm........definitely execution is highest
only part of psychology is ......stress within limit ......no more
..............
but when we move from day to shortterm.....we have a dilemma.....rationality of who can think/decide better.......computer or i.......with eod /weekly signal....news flow money flow.....derisking.....and pet indicator......we create a hotchpotch.....dream with greed....
take a trade....if right....happy , superior ego.......if wrong .....frustration[blame game]....
forgetting....result is a probabilistic event..........a good trader knows this....so after trade handle trade better by watching it.......getting out with small loss/run the profit one....
and a time[patience]..to resolve conflict on market...to be watched for,
.....to understand this......greed /fear/hope....must be replaced with....risk analysis and mm
if possible......chance of being right /wrong......here those who like us study probability/statistics......has some edge......but expectation trap......is quicksand trouble in real scenario.
......so u vs. ur knowledge vs software vs indicator trap vs news trap vs ur decisionmaking skill............a psychological whirlpool is created.
here ta comes..helpful.....diary is a good tool.....case basis.....from past analysis study..how many times why u r right......how better u can fight on uncertain terms
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so u understand when u change from day to short term ......impact on psychological front
......now suppose u believe in core trading......
1] break out style
2] trend style ..continuation concept
........psychologically from study of past.......on what condition they have higher probability
......this likely event scenario......is mostly misunderstood by normal trader ,forget common mass....
luckily.....saint/traderji....try level best to teach core trading
.....the ground rule ta based/pattern .....must be followed with discipline
...................
3rd concept......reversal pt intermediate pivot .....i personally think ad get may help...also other software like dt/mtpredictor has same principle.......
basic is at 4....u buy......at 5 u sale.....but......subjectivity....part one must have that much experience to handle reversal/contrarian thought process
candle revesal @bottom and top ....definitely helpful.
......
but core of trading.......how much more u play......when u r right......a skill .....not yet to be taught.......as its self realisation[may be a mentor may help]
he child of market......call giver......call taker............has no chance in reality to understand market......as they r not healthy child......in terms of neo-nazi
......i should say depth of them r so poor.......its a matter.....money when leave them.
...sunil [ss]tries to define them......unfortunately they r majority ...[insects]
....grand work of ss explaining fund flow and threat idea.........a genuine.....idea.....to solve riddle of market
........
sucessful traders has 2 distinctive superiority
1]a particular time frame in which he shall play......and a definite style
2]predictive mode or reactive mode
.......
first thing......intraday......day.......short term.......intermediate......r known to everyone
also the style......break out.....pull back ...short at top.....bottom fishing....continuation with momentum.......r spl mention not reqd.......as already systemised.....many a trader play
.....with definite.....derisk model which suits him
so timeframe.....style....derisk......this 3......creates a set....now compatibility
.....the word successful.......clearly tells........its already done....nofurther experiment pl
.......................................
2] predictive mode vs. reactive.......
elliot or wave.....count....it suggests........but price confirmation must.....otherwise...its russian roulette
in reactive case.....trader develops.......a mental state.....in which he follows....the event of market ....direction and strength[trade what u see]
....all whipsaws r not to be attended........problem is nobody knows change is normally abrupt
....so some theory develops to watch one higher/one lower time frame.
..still randomness is a governing factor
......only with exceptional mental stability[example cv].....a person can be flexible like clay
....can react most of the time RIGHT
......for others.....a jone has to be created......on certain conditional fulfilment accept a trade......otherwise....REJECT THE OPPURTUNITY[considering uncertainity]
.....THIS ATTUNEMENT I CALL PSYCHOLOGY OF SUCCESSFUL TRADER
.........still i suggest diary writing.....take a print on entry and exit of chart....for future analysis of learning curve
.............
however stock scanning is a method to learn .....as software can help u[time management]
here again programmer r hundred step ahead
use any software.........to the best of its ability
...so now i start study on it......and volatility predictive model
.....wish u all the best
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#36
next i shall now see .........tool of a trading pro
.........................................................................................
dont know,whether i am right to write here....forbidden art of trading will be exposed here.many a pro r available here in this great forum...i request them to make comments.
1. why they r superior ?
2. what time frame they trade?
3. how far they r subjective in trading ?
4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?
5. on what condition they dont trade ?
6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]
7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?
8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW
Ninety-nine percent of the people in the business are followers. They’re not creative and they’re not willing to rely upon themselves to make decisions, so they rely upon other people. When the decision is right they take credit for it, and when it’s wrong they point fingers at other people. And out of that one percent who do make their own decisions and create their own tools, 99 percent of them are going to be wrong, so you’ve got about one-tenth of one percent that are going to be right.The market is [full of lemmings] :everyone feeding off one another, following the media, and following a trend.
..............................................
1. why they r superior ?

Frankly ,I dont know whether my method is superior or inferior.For the last two years I am consistently profitable.Making around 60 % per Annum on a fixed trading capital of 2 lacs.

2. what time frame they trade?

Generally my trades last for 5 to 10 days.I have neither the time nor the interest to day trade.

3. how far they r subjective in trading ?

My entry Criteria is very simple .I just note down the names of scrips which made a significant up move on the day say 5% + .Next step is to find the catalyst behind the move.I visit many web sites like NSE,BSE,MoneyControl etc etc etc in search of the catalyst.If I find some news or other development which can be beneficial to the company ,I enter next day .Will never lose more than 1% of capital.Trail with a stop and simply get out if there is no up move within a week.

4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?

I think it is because my system is not against the basic nature of the market.
some truths i learned so far
a) central tendency of the market is to go up,So I am always long
b)Always earnings will drive the stock up (in the long run)
c)Fundamentals matters.Hard core TA traders can make marked improvement in their trading results by paying little attention to fundamentals.
d)Price appreciation is a function of demand caused by the positive investor sentiment towards the company.Find the catalyst behind the new investor sentiment.
e) Catalyst can be company specific,sector specific,or industry specific.Try to assess the impact on the earnings.

5. on what condition they dont trade ?

Dont trade for the sake of trading.I Trade only if I am convinsed about the catalyst.When the market is overheated one will see hundreds of stocks making 5% + moves day by day.Then it is time to reduce commitments

6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]

I am looking for 10 to 20% move .If there is no move within a week , I will get out and buy something else.I am using a trailing stop.initial stop will be the low of the breakout day.

7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?

Wasting time on the non existent holy grail instead of improving my own system by creating a good database.Foolishly chasing every new indicator.

8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

I have the right to advise only those 4 year amateurs who are less profitable than me. I will advise them not to ignore the fundamentals.FA alone will not work.some times market may take years to discount it.So go for the momentum.
excellent answer.ur main stength is clarity of thought process.
use of momentum.faith in fundamental and dig more to get truth.

only problem is criteria of catalist...as PRICE moves before news comes out in media[tv,paper or internet].......market is highly efficient now..reach speedily where to reach....suggesting execution is difficult.ur rate of return is envious...fact is fund manager getting 10-16%...
u shall be star oneday
...................................................
TRUE STENGTH...SEE THE BIGGER WAVE ..BEFORE ITS FORMING...
THE PROBABLE PT WHERE IT CAN FORM...
READY WITH MONEY TO TAKE POSITION..
ALTERNATE SCENARIO...[AS SUGGESTED BY GREAT CV]...KEEP EYE..JOIN WHERE AND WHEN BIG WAVE IS FORMING...OTHERWISE SIT IDLE.
1. why they r superior ?
cos they dont follow others, dont believe what others say, but listen to everything and takes what matters (test, test, test. researching and testing is not the holy grail, but if there is any path, this is it). do you know what will be the performance of a random entry system with different money management on any instrument?

2. what time frame they trade?
anything that you can think of...

3. how far they r subjective in trading ?
cannot answer

4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?

the same that goes for McGrath, tiger woods and federer.

5. on what condition they don't trade ?
many reasons...but how can i know all? got some from market wizard series.

6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]
depends on each trader, but they HAVE ONE and FOLLOW IT DILIGENTLY.

7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?
predicting the market....mechanical system.

8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

why do you want to be like me? then you will have to follow my style, which may not suit you. get what works for you. keep an open mind, but don't take anything on face value. Read - Practice - Practice - Read. btw, no of years has nothing to do with success...or else all 15 yr traders will be millionaires today...this is not time based promotion. u can be a very successful pro in 4 yrs too.
Originally Posted by oilman5

i dont know,whether i am right to write here....forbidden art of trading will be exposed here.many a pro r available here in this great forum...i request them to make comments.
1. why they r superior ?
To be simple bcoz i am successful and accepts mkt is random in nature
2. what time frame they trade?
Depends what i need to acheive if day trading prefer 15 min charts were trades not last not more than few hrs and if swing few weeks possibly
3. how far they r subjective in trading ?
I prefer quasi discertionary style 99% mech in rules and 1% apply discertion as my system cant read NEWS
4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?
Using system with positive expetancy and sticking to it and understanding what i am doing well
5. on what condition they dont trade ?
When system says no trade zone or no signal
6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]
Yes its hyper important if u r day trading commodities or forex
7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?
None i feel diffcult to trade as trading is not rocket science
8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

Yes definetly
1. Understand maths behind indicators before u apply it to charts
2. Design a system and optimized it over instruments u prefer to trade and back test with tick data if possible
3. Foward test it for atleast 6 mo with vast range of instrument and compare with backtested performance
4. Dont belive any idiots who says market is predictable
5. Stick to system even if you see consecutive loosing trades but check you in range of expected drag down limits
6. Apply money managment principles
..............................................
PROs would consider this as exposing their war chest... may reveal their stengths.... as well as the weakness.

In their view all others are enemies ( as CV had put it) because the money one makes from trading is the money somebody else will be losing.
This is a game where the losers play an important role.

Afterall this is their bread and butter .... so the human survival instinct comes into picture.... Though the fact may be a few hundreds in the forum knowing your system would not make anybody a loser...there are millions playing te market.... Also knowing a system does not make a winner... the person executing the system has a large role to play..

Also will a PRO really talk about the losses?? I doubt...I remember somebody telling us in the chat room that he has 90% winners !! 90% winners and he was still working as a sub broker.... mmm... sub broker business was more profitable than trading with 90% success...

I myself am not a PRO. I have a good, satisfying and well paying job. But of course TA is a passion... almost bordering on obsession...

I do lot of study and experiment with lot of indicators ...but my positional trades are mainly based a few simple momentum based cranked up stuff
Ofcourse I do have my losers but overall it has been good. Also the absence of complusion to make money from trading has helped me to become better in my trading .. I suppose..
hi all, its better to give pro some more time to show their arsenal.some of them pm to me. so for compilation we can wait. meanwhile let me put view from jesse[ i consider him one of the sharpest trader in india]
Trading successfully is difficult, very difficultThe elements of good trading are: (1) cutting losses.
You have to put indicators in context. They’re background information — never the primary reason for a trade
. the experience of the past few years has emphasized the value of disregarding all considerations except those which relate to price movement, volume and time. If one is endeavoring to realize profits from the principal swings in prices of stocks, it is my opinion that he should disregard fundamental as well as corporate statistics relating to the stocks in which he is trading, stick closely to a study of the action of the market and become deaf and blind to everything else.

There is only one way to achieve success in speculation—through hard work, persistently hard work. If there is any easy money lying around, no one is going to try and give it to me—this I know. My satisfaction always came from beating the market, solving the puzzle. The money was the reward, but it was not the main reason I loved the market. The stock market is the greatest, most complex puzzle ever invented, and it pays the biggest jackpot - Jesse Livermore
A passion for the truth is the essential element of a sound approach to trading. - Chick Goslin
Look at reality. Futures trading is a competition. It is financial warfare. You are trading against thousands of smart, aggressive, extremely well-informed, very well financed, extensively experienced professionals. Look at the facts!
Every trader will be tested emotionally, mentally and monetarily to varying degrees in his career. Most times, it’ll be extremely unpleasant and you’d most likely want to quit right there and then. Only those who can endure this kind of hardship, learn from their mistakes and persevere on will make it.
One of my strengths is the ability to become more aggressive during winning streaks and to do the opposite during a losing streak. This goes against what most people do. You should have a person who has nothing to do with trading who will turn off the trading terminal after a certain amount of losses and send you home; that would save traders thousands.

I am constantly adjusting my trading style to match specific market conditions. For example, on volatile days I generally put fewer orders into the market and execute more directional trades, although I mostly hold them for only a few seconds.

I always set strict daily targets and limits for my profit and loss. The most important element is the stop limit, or simply the size of the loss, which will cause me to turn off my trading screen. I try to liquidate my positions as soon as they start going against me.
You are trading against the wealthiest and most knowledgeable people and organizations in the world.Do not delude yourself, you cannot compete on their terms: information, knowledge, experience, staying power, and so on.Do not spend time and energy trying to figure out why a price moves.Focus all your attention and energy solely on what the price is doing.You are a trader. A trader does not get paid to understand or explain why something has happened. The question "why?" deals with the past. The question "what?" deals with the present and provides the best clues to the future. And never forget that you are trading "futures," not "pasts." Discovering the supposed "why" of a price move will provide you with little more than temporary intellectual comfort. Whereas observing and focusing on what the price has done and is doing will help you anticipate what the price will do in the futureA trader must always feel free to change trading positions on very short notice. And most importantly, you do not need to be good at predicting
That's the problem with amateurs, they only have half a plan, the easy half. They know how much of a profit they're willing to take, but they don't have the foggiest idea how much they're willing to lose. They're like deer in the headlights, they just freeze and wait to get run over. Their plan for a position that goes south is, "Please God, let me out of this and I'll never do it again" but that's bullshit, because if by chance the position turns around, they'll soon forget about God. They'll go back to thinking that they're geniuses, and they'll always do it again, which means that they're sure to get caught, and get caught bad. What most people fail to understand is that while you're losing your money, you're also losing your objectivityThat's why you have to put aside your ego and get out. If you have trouble doing that, as most people do, be like Odysseus: tie yourself to the mast with an automatic stop and take your emotions out of play --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speculators and investors who simply guess, follow tips,rumors, newspaper talk and so-called “inside information"have no chance of ever making a success You will make money when you do just the opposite of what the average man or woman tries to do and makes a failure and loses as a result of what they are trying to do
The people who win consistently spend their time refining the basics and making sure they are prepared.
Focus on being profitable for the week - Individual trades may go against you and individual trading days can offer little opportunity. As a senior trader once explained to me, for the active trader, however, there are enough fresh opportunities in a week to make it reasonable to set a goal of being profitable for the week. You won't reach your goal every single week, but the mere act of setting the goal keeps you focused. For example, you don't want to lose so much money in a single day that you can't make it back during the other days of the week. You also don't want to lose so much money on a single trade that you can't come back during the remainder of the day. When you really push yourself to be profitable every week, you don't let individual days get away from you. And when you don't let individual days get away from you, you start managing each trade carefully to ensure that your largest loss won't exceed your largest gain. Time and again I've seen a consistent sign of progress among developing traders: they stop digging themselves into holes.
Always have something to "lean on" - Scalpers will notice heavy and persistent selling at a certain tick, accompanied by large offers in the order book. They'll lean on that information to find a good entry to sell the market. If the offers disappear from the book or if new buyers start lifting those offers in size, they can get out quickly. Knowing you have something to lean on, however, allows you to ride out the noise between entry and exit. As long as what you're leaning on doesn't vanish, you stay with your idea
1) Before you put your capital at risk, have a well-formed trade idea;
2) When your idea pays you out quickly, take some profits;
3) Don't get caught up in individual trades; focus on profitability over a series of trades and days.

It means that success will not be found in better indicators, improved self-help techniques, or any of the endless parade of chart patterns, wave formations, numerology schemes, or moving average arrays.

Rather, success is achieved when we find markets and styles of trading that take maximum advantage of our skills and talents. That keeps us focused on markets and absorbed in them, enabling us--over time--to internalize their patterns.They know that risk control is as important as the other two legs of speculation, selection and timing. That is all this business of commodity trading gets down to, selection, timing, and risk control
May my assessment of today's price action be based upon the facts, all of the facts and nothing but the facts. May I not be influenced by fear, greed or the ill-advised comments of others, which may be made in their interests and not my own. May I take into account the past history laid before me on this chart and make my assessment based on my knowledge, and logic, and not my emotions.
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"Tape reading was an important part of the game; so was beginning at the right time; so was sticking to your position. But my greatest discovery was that a man must study general conditions, to size them so as to be able to anticipate probabilities." Reminiscences of a Stock Operator
There are 5 important achievements that every successful system trader must make.

1) You must know your own weaknesses. Each of us brings strengths and weaknesses to our own trading. Some find it exceedingly difficult not to tinker or play around with the markets when trading and in the process we don't follow our systems; some find it difficult to pull the trigger; some find it difficult to endure drawdowns of any size. Unless you know how you react to the markets and the pressures and elations of trading, you cannot compensate for your weaknesses.

2) You must understand statistics well enough to understand the limitations of trading using only history as our guide. I am constantly surprised by how many people get this wrong. Even the so-called "experts" in trading.

3) You must learn about trading systems, many of them, many different kinds of systems. In this process, you will learn that there are many answers, many paths to profits, but none of them are as neat and palatable as we might wish.

4) You must learn about brokers, markets, execution, risk, slippage, and other operational issues that affect trading profits. The best way to learn these issues is to start trading somewhere using a small account. It needs to be big enough that the losses matter but not so big that you will bankrupt yourself if you lose the entire account.

5) You must learn about yourself and how you react to all the items 1 to 4 above. This is perhaps the most important knowledge. How to fit your own personality, weaknesses and strengths, into the trading ecosystem. You might find you are bored with long-term system, or that you can't stand looking at screens, or that you need a robobroker to execute since you won't follow your systems closely enough. You will only learn this by being honest with yourself and by reflecting on what works and doesn't.

The best possible way to learn is to sit side by side with someone who knows what they are doing, but this is not possible for most, so you will likely need to find another way.

As far as a specific course of action, which is what you have asked for, I will offer one way that I think works pretty well. If you persevere and if you reflect on your own condition honestly, you have a good chance at success if you follow this course.

1) Buy some testing software and learn some of the well-known systems that work. There are many examples of systems that work out there. Play around with them, change them and see what happens. I'm obviously biased in my opinion of what software you should buy but I leave that decision to you.

2) Read and Study Trading. Initially, I suggest buying the Modus course. It is a very good foundation for people who don't know where to begin.

3) Start trading as soon as you think you are ready. Start small and don't worry about the profits, worry about what you learn about the markets and yourself. Consider your initial losses as tuition that all traders pay.

4) Honestly assess yourself on a regular basis. What did you learn? what are you having trouble with? What do you need to compensate for?

5) Repeat starting at 1).

One thing that troubles many people is the high cost of software and courses. Consider however, the high cost of trading incorretly as the alternative. If you can't afford software, save up until you can. If you can't afford money for a course, you likely can't afford to lose as much money as you will if you start trading without understanding what you are doing.

Last of all, don't be afraid to ask for the advice of others, even to pay for it where appropriate.

Keep one thing in mind, however, sometimes even successful traders are wrong about the reasons for their success. Trader A might think his success is due to his fancy computers and sophisticated algorithms when in reality his success is due to his having a solid foundation and good operational execution.

Trading well is not easy, but it is something you can learn if you have the perseverance combined with the humility to be realistic about your own strengths and weaknesses
For the most part, professional traders, syndicate traders, and the specialists, do not look at these things. They simply do not have the time. Professionals have to act swiftly, as soon as market conditions change, because they are up against other professionals who will act immediately against their interests if they are too slow in reacting to the market. The only way they can respond that fast is to understand and react, almost instinctively, to what the market is telling them. They read the market through volume and its relationship to price action[If you do find a colleague who is consistently correct, either learn his system so that you can use his tools with your own intuition and experience or delegate part of your trading strategy development to him.]To play the market properly requires silence, and seclusion to examine the situation, and to appraise, and deliberate on new information that comes to hand during the trading day. One must always have a clear strategy to play the market and clear rules to follow.
at least with regarding making decisions. If you can put aside what should be, what could be, what ought to be, what would have, could have, should have occurred, and just pay attention to what is actually happening, the act of paying attention transforms what is. The greatest action, the wisest, the best action that you can take in almost any situation is to stay with what is, instead of jumping to conclusions or trying to come up with conclusions.

I think one mistake novice traders make is that they begin trading before they have any real idea what they are doing. They are active, but they are not accomplishing anything. I hardly spend any time trading. Over 99 percent of my time is spent on the computer, doing research.
1]What markets are you going to trade? You need to select a market that fits your personality because a market is reflection of the people who trade it.
2)What is your trading capitalization? On the one hand, you should honestly be able to say, "If I lose all this money, won't change my lifestyle." On the other hand, you need a large enough account so that making at least as much as you do from your current job is a feasible goal. Otherwise, you will think that you are a failure because you will work harder as a trader than you do at the job you are in now.
3)How will orders be entered? Will you scale into positions or put them on all at once? How will you exit losing trades? How will you exit winning trades?What type of drawdown will cause you to stop trading and reevaluate your approach? What type of drawdown will cause you to shut down trading?
4)What are your profit goals, measured on as short a time frame as is feasible for your trading approach?
5)What procedure will you use for analyzing your trades?
6)What will you do if personal problems arise that could adversely impact your trading?
7)How will you set up your working environment so that it is conducive to trading and maximizes your chances for success

People underestimate the time it takes to succeed as a trader. Some people come here and think they can sit with me for a week and become great traders. How many people when they went to college would've thought to walk up to the professor and say, "I know the course is for a semester, but I think a week should be enough for me to get it." Gaining proficiency is the same in trading as in any other profession—it requires experience, and experience takes time. A man few years ago asked me, "How long will it take me to become a professional trader so 1 can quit my job and support my family?"
"Three to five years," I said.
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"It is the very foundation of strategy to be able to adapt to any situation and continue fighting without losing heart. You gain this ability by practicing day in and day out with intensity." --Miyamoto Musashi

Just so a chart of the averages, or of a single stock, reflects the ideas, hopes, ambitions and purposes of the mass mind operating in the market, or of a manipulator handling a single stock. But when a student undertakes to read from his charts the purposes and objective of those who are responsible for a stock's action in the market, he is beginning to see, in a true light, the meaning of scientific stock speculation
As traders, we cannot afford the luxury of wishing and hoping because it puts us in a passive relationship with the markets. When we wish and hope, we are shifting responsibility on to the markets for making something happen instead of confronting the conditions and doing something about it ourselves. If we find ourselves wishing and hoping, it is an excellent indication that we don't know what is going on and as a result need to get out of the markets until we do.
The movement of price in any and all free markets is a function of the laws of pure supply and demand. Buying and selling opportunity emerges when this simple and straight forward relationship is out of balance.

"It is very important to visualize the many ways in which the market may unfold, rather than trying to forcast or predict how it will unfold. With a market understanding, you can begin to visualize each possibilitySuccessful real-time traders have a far better chance of taking their successful trading techniques and applying them to automated trading systems .
.......................................
so some answer has come, i am complying them for the benefit of all traderji.com forum member.also read view from cv.
1. why they r superior ?
ans. they are superior by experience and rationality.THEY JUST HAVE BETTER CONTROL OVER THEIR EMOTIONS AND ARE DISCIPLINES.they have better execution skill .
2. what time frame they trade?
ans. as they found which suit them with comfort and making money.
3. how far they r subjective in trading ?
ans. no subjectvity.as per system ..entry -exit condition r predefined.however
some sentimental condition r checked.
4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?
ans.right plan and implementation.improving success rate.
5. on what condition they dont trade ?
ans. condition not suiting their plan. when r/r ratio not favourable.
6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]?
ans. inbuild in the system.[hence nothing to worry]

7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?
ans.not following the plan.distract by others openion...soln . follow price in a disciplined way.
8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

ans. yes . discipline and a solid implemention plan including slippage.understand market and good money management.[ignore media]

so we clearly see some difference betn pro and serious amateur.
no1. level of comfort and serenity.
no2. least subjective.
no3.worst scenario is already planned and mastery over implemention.
key word is discipline and practicing their tool.
so from beginner u r moving on top...here u atleast know how to survive..irrespective of market u can run ur family by winning against other traders.
........................
so u r developing trading philosophy...plan new arsenal...to fight better.
so in is trade universe.3terms i introduce...exhausive, exclusive and intersection ie. interrelation between 2 element.
EXHAUSIVE..U HAVE TO GO INTO DETAIL
EXCLUSIVE..NO RELATION EXISTS..INDEPENDENT ELEMENT
INRERSECTION;INTERRELATION BETWEEN 2 ELEMENT...INTERRELATIONSHIP BETN MARKET...INTERRELATIONSHIP BETN MANY COMPANY IN A PARTICULAR SECTOR.
exhausive gives micro view.

so before reaching to become a master...one goes through various way to question and answer this 3 element...[may be in different name].he knows how far he understands...his limit..so now practice on regular basis[system]

and follow it diligently[discipline]
so i use 3 statistical term....

now u see all good thread ..search mode..nothing but ..can be expansion of 3 idea.

any other idea....yes EXECUTION.I DONT UNDERSTAND AS SLIPPAGE A BAD ELEMENT..BUT CV OPENS MY EYE,...i miss 3trades for slippage in intraday.
also some profit booking idea in real sense...so the difference with beginner and pro clearer to me..its IMPLEMENTATION.


HENCE THIS KEY WORDS U THINK IN THE LIGHT OF IMPLEMENTATION BY U.

so we find out the tools.....it is the system.
no real pro shall give u. though in trading system of beginner'....many a real tool r given for which i paid a lot.[to buy them]
tool is indicator..nothing but actual condition to initiate and close the trade. system is all those condition written ,taking care of exception.
scanner is software based predefined search condition.
filter is for keeping the best probable one for trade.
system testing is to build up confidence..and to bring rationality.

tradersedgeindia.com is definitely a good place to start with for beginners.
but if u know software, its language..can implement..best is to do like karthik.

otherwise for a beginner like us stick to tradersedgeindia.com

further elaborating the tools
..............................................
for intraday..its nothing but orderflow....price higher high break out concept.

for eod....predefined scanner.[u have to decide what u want]
for shortterm...support buy..
oversold condition...now price just starts to reverse.
[ suitable indicator signal which u rely]
for position play...some news impact not yet discounted in price.
continuty of trend in price[ma based]
something to check strength.
IMP: MINIMISING SUBJECTIVITY AND MEDIA HULLABULLA..IS UR JOB.
NEVER BELIEVE IN VALUE BUY AS A TRADER.NEVER FORGET STOPLOSS
Originally Posted by oilman5

i dont know,whether i am right to write here....forbidden art of trading will be exposed here.many a pro r available here in this great forum...i request them to make comments.
1. why they r superior ?

There is nobody superior or inferior as far as markets are concerned.......and the time you do feel that you are superior,that will be when the market cuts you down to size.


Quote:
2. what time frame they trade?

Intradays and position trading.......love playing the weekly as well as the 5min charts.


Quote:
3. how far they r subjective in trading ?

Used to love words like "subjective","mystical","intuition" once upon a time.......nowadays,the attitude is more to objectification of the whole process.Do whatever it takes,an automated system,or set points of entry,exit and the discipline to always follow the rules of your trading plan.Whatever........but one cannot beat all this fear and greed and hope,by joining the crowd.One therefore stands aside,follows the rules,practically robotic,day after day.


Quote:
4. what r the reasons for their actual consistency ?

A trading plan of attack,and then the discipline to follow it to the tee.



Quote:
5. on what condition they dont trade ?

There are many,like achieving the targets and more for the month.Also not trading if taking a hit and a predefined percentage point is hit.Or if there is some sort of family emergency......etc etc.

Of course,importantly,when I have a rip roaring,rollicking bullish 60min,I do NOT trade the 5min and stupidly go short.There is enough profits to be made just following the trend of the 60min and trading the 5.


Quote:
6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss

Hmm.......stop loss for every trade.Position sizing appropriately.Set Risk percent per trade.Monitoring average wins,losses,drawdowns......blah blahblah,think that what everybody here already knows.


Quote:
7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?

Anticipating a move before it happens,trying to get in even before your trading strategy says so.........got licked many times doing that.But not too much of a problem these days .........now in only when the move happens.



Quote:
8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

Any fool can be a trader,every beginner trader can one day become an experienced one.Every trader with a plan and strategy that works can make money off the markets.Why then are 99% people failing at the markets?They go by what a newsletter,a self proclaimed guru,their broker,etc tells them to do.They go by their gut feel,or their neighbour's gut feel.They believe that making money is an evil act.They believe that trading the markets is for spare change .They have yet to educate themselves.They have no plan,no modus operandi,no strategy,no plan of attack...............

Approach trading like a business,have a business plan,a trading plan.We are in this to make money and lots of it,as in any business.But strangely,to make lots of money,you have to shift the mind's focus from making money to putting in that perfect trade.Although it's one and the same,you have to maintain focus on the trades.

Everything is cold,calculated strategy and then a disciplined implementation.We are in this to capitalise on other people's fear and other people's greed.......and for that,your own mind cannot work in the process of fear and greed.It has to be quiet.In the present moment.Practically like meditation.

Can anybody and everybody do it?Of course,provided you do all what it takes to be a trader.But sadly,that will never be the case........99% will always lose,not because it's difficult,but because these 99% will not approach it with a plan,with the required discipline.........That stat will always remain.

Can you be that 1%?Surely and definitely,provided you are willing to pay time and energy and focus to making yourself a great trader.

All the best!
Saint
I think to be successful in market you do not need any unique tool just follow any simple tool but with consistency.Pros are Pros because they believe in themselves and they do not get confused.So the best tool is your confidence and your power to observe and grasp things in as simple form as possible.Finally trading is a buisness and in every buisness there are few successful people so why so much hue and cry about trading loss.
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#37
next i shall now see .........tool of a trading pro
.........................................................................................
dont know,whether i am right to write here....forbidden art of trading will be exposed here.many a pro r available here in this great forum...i request them to make comments.
1. why they r superior ?
2. what time frame they trade?
3. how far they r subjective in trading ?
4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?
5. on what condition they dont trade ?
6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]
7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?
8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW
Ninety-nine percent of the people in the business are followers. Theyre not creative and theyre not willing to rely upon themselves to make decisions, so they rely upon other people. When the decision is right they take credit for it, and when its wrong they point fingers at other people. And out of that one percent who do make their own decisions and create their own tools, 99 percent of them are going to be wrong, so youve got about one-tenth of one percent that are going to be right.The market is [full of lemmings] :everyone feeding off one another, following the media, and following a trend.
..............................................
1. why they r superior ?

Frankly ,I dont know whether my method is superior or inferior.For the last two years I am consistently profitable.Making around 60 % per Annum on a fixed trading capital of 2 lacs.

2. what time frame they trade?

Generally my trades last for 5 to 10 days.I have neither the time nor the interest to day trade.

3. how far they r subjective in trading ?

My entry Criteria is very simple .I just note down the names of scrips which made a significant up move on the day say 5% + .Next step is to find the catalyst behind the move.I visit many web sites like NSE,BSE,MoneyControl etc etc etc in search of the catalyst.If I find some news or other development which can be beneficial to the company ,I enter next day .Will never lose more than 1% of capital.Trail with a stop and simply get out if there is no up move within a week.

4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?

I think it is because my system is not against the basic nature of the market.
some truths i learned so far
a) central tendency of the market is to go up,So I am always long
b)Always earnings will drive the stock up (in the long run)
c)Fundamentals matters.Hard core TA traders can make marked improvement in their trading results by paying little attention to fundamentals.
d)Price appreciation is a function of demand caused by the positive investor sentiment towards the company.Find the catalyst behind the new investor sentiment.
e) Catalyst can be company specific,sector specific,or industry specific.Try to assess the impact on the earnings.

5. on what condition they dont trade ?

Dont trade for the sake of trading.I Trade only if I am convinsed about the catalyst.When the market is overheated one will see hundreds of stocks making 5% + moves day by day.Then it is time to reduce commitments

6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]

I am looking for 10 to 20% move .If there is no move within a week , I will get out and buy something else.I am using a trailing stop.initial stop will be the low of the breakout day.

7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?

Wasting time on the non existent holy grail instead of improving my own system by creating a good database.Foolishly chasing every new indicator.

8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

I have the right to advise only those 4 year amateurs who are less profitable than me. I will advise them not to ignore the fundamentals.FA alone will not work.some times market may take years to discount it.So go for the momentum.
excellent answer.ur main stength is clarity of thought process.
use of momentum.faith in fundamental and dig more to get truth.

only problem is criteria of catalist...as PRICE moves before news comes out in media[tv,paper or internet].......market is highly efficient now..reach speedily where to reach....suggesting execution is difficult.ur rate of return is envious...fact is fund manager getting 10-16%...
u shall be star oneday
...................................................
TRUE STENGTH...SEE THE BIGGER WAVE ..BEFORE ITS FORMING...
THE PROBABLE PT WHERE IT CAN FORM...
READY WITH MONEY TO TAKE POSITION..
ALTERNATE SCENARIO...[AS SUGGESTED BY GREAT CV]...KEEP EYE..JOIN WHERE AND WHEN BIG WAVE IS FORMING...OTHERWISE SIT IDLE.
1. why they r superior ?
cos they dont follow others, dont believe what others say, but listen to everything and takes what matters (test, test, test. researching and testing is not the holy grail, but if there is any path, this is it). do you know what will be the performance of a random entry system with different money management on any instrument?

2. what time frame they trade?
anything that you can think of...

3. how far they r subjective in trading ?
cannot answer

4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?

the same that goes for McGrath, tiger woods and federer.

5. on what condition they don't trade ?
many reasons...but how can i know all? got some from market wizard series.

6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]
depends on each trader, but they HAVE ONE and FOLLOW IT DILIGENTLY.

7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?
predicting the market....mechanical system.

8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

why do you want to be like me? then you will have to follow my style, which may not suit you. get what works for you. keep an open mind, but don't take anything on face value. Read - Practice - Practice - Read. btw, no of years has nothing to do with success...or else all 15 yr traders will be millionaires today...this is not time based promotion. u can be a very successful pro in 4 yrs too.
Originally Posted by oilman5

i dont know,whether i am right to write here....forbidden art of trading will be exposed here.many a pro r available here in this great forum...i request them to make comments.
1. why they r superior ?
To be simple bcoz i am successful and accepts mkt is random in nature
2. what time frame they trade?
Depends what i need to acheive if day trading prefer 15 min charts were trades not last not more than few hrs and if swing few weeks possibly
3. how far they r subjective in trading ?
I prefer quasi discertionary style 99% mech in rules and 1% apply discertion as my system cant read NEWS
4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?
Using system with positive expetancy and sticking to it and understanding what i am doing well
5. on what condition they dont trade ?
When system says no trade zone or no signal
6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]
Yes its hyper important if u r day trading commodities or forex
7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?
None i feel diffcult to trade as trading is not rocket science
8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

Yes definetly
1. Understand maths behind indicators before u apply it to charts
2. Design a system and optimized it over instruments u prefer to trade and back test with tick data if possible
3. Foward test it for atleast 6 mo with vast range of instrument and compare with backtested performance
4. Dont belive any idiots who says market is predictable
5. Stick to system even if you see consecutive loosing trades but check you in range of expected drag down limits
6. Apply money managment principles
..............................................
PROs would consider this as exposing their war chest... may reveal their stengths.... as well as the weakness.

In their view all others are enemies ( as CV had put it) because the money one makes from trading is the money somebody else will be losing.
This is a game where the losers play an important role.

Afterall this is their bread and butter .... so the human survival instinct comes into picture.... Though the fact may be a few hundreds in the forum knowing your system would not make anybody a loser...there are millions playing te market.... Also knowing a system does not make a winner... the person executing the system has a large role to play..

Also will a PRO really talk about the losses?? I doubt...I remember somebody telling us in the chat room that he has 90% winners !! 90% winners and he was still working as a sub broker.... mmm... sub broker business was more profitable than trading with 90% success...

I myself am not a PRO. I have a good, satisfying and well paying job. But of course TA is a passion... almost bordering on obsession...

I do lot of study and experiment with lot of indicators ...but my positional trades are mainly based a few simple momentum based cranked up stuff
Ofcourse I do have my losers but overall it has been good. Also the absence of complusion to make money from trading has helped me to become better in my trading .. I suppose..
hi all, its better to give pro some more time to show their arsenal.some of them pm to me. so for compilation we can wait. meanwhile let me put view from jesse[ i consider him one of the sharpest trader in india]
Trading successfully is difficult, very difficultThe elements of good trading are: (1) cutting losses.
You have to put indicators in context. Theyre background information never the primary reason for a trade
. the experience of the past few years has emphasized the value of disregarding all considerations except those which relate to price movement, volume and time. If one is endeavoring to realize profits from the principal swings in prices of stocks, it is my opinion that he should disregard fundamental as well as corporate statistics relating to the stocks in which he is trading, stick closely to a study of the action of the market and become deaf and blind to everything else.

There is only one way to achieve success in speculationthrough hard work, persistently hard work. If there is any easy money lying around, no one is going to try and give it to methis I know. My satisfaction always came from beating the market, solving the puzzle. The money was the reward, but it was not the main reason I loved the market. The stock market is the greatest, most complex puzzle ever invented, and it pays the biggest jackpot - Jesse Livermore
A passion for the truth is the essential element of a sound approach to trading. - Chick Goslin
Look at reality. Futures trading is a competition. It is financial warfare. You are trading against thousands of smart, aggressive, extremely well-informed, very well financed, extensively experienced professionals. Look at the facts!
Every trader will be tested emotionally, mentally and monetarily to varying degrees in his career. Most times, itll be extremely unpleasant and youd most likely want to quit right there and then. Only those who can endure this kind of hardship, learn from their mistakes and persevere on will make it.
One of my strengths is the ability to become more aggressive during winning streaks and to do the opposite during a losing streak. This goes against what most people do. You should have a person who has nothing to do with trading who will turn off the trading terminal after a certain amount of losses and send you home; that would save traders thousands.

I am constantly adjusting my trading style to match specific market conditions. For example, on volatile days I generally put fewer orders into the market and execute more directional trades, although I mostly hold them for only a few seconds.

I always set strict daily targets and limits for my profit and loss. The most important element is the stop limit, or simply the size of the loss, which will cause me to turn off my trading screen. I try to liquidate my positions as soon as they start going against me.
You are trading against the wealthiest and most knowledgeable people and organizations in the world.Do not delude yourself, you cannot compete on their terms: information, knowledge, experience, staying power, and so on.Do not spend time and energy trying to figure out why a price moves.Focus all your attention and energy solely on what the price is doing.You are a trader. A trader does not get paid to understand or explain why something has happened. The question "why?" deals with the past. The question "what?" deals with the present and provides the best clues to the future. And never forget that you are trading "futures," not "pasts." Discovering the supposed "why" of a price move will provide you with little more than temporary intellectual comfort. Whereas observing and focusing on what the price has done and is doing will help you anticipate what the price will do in the futureA trader must always feel free to change trading positions on very short notice. And most importantly, you do not need to be good at predicting
That's the problem with amateurs, they only have half a plan, the easy half. They know how much of a profit they're willing to take, but they don't have the foggiest idea how much they're willing to lose. They're like deer in the headlights, they just freeze and wait to get run over. Their plan for a position that goes south is, "Please God, let me out of this and I'll never do it again" but that's bullshit, because if by chance the position turns around, they'll soon forget about God. They'll go back to thinking that they're geniuses, and they'll always do it again, which means that they're sure to get caught, and get caught bad. What most people fail to understand is that while you're losing your money, you're also losing your objectivityThat's why you have to put aside your ego and get out. If you have trouble doing that, as most people do, be like Odysseus: tie yourself to the mast with an automatic stop and take your emotions out of play --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speculators and investors who simply guess, follow tips,rumors, newspaper talk and so-called inside information"have no chance of ever making a success You will make money when you do just the opposite of what the average man or woman tries to do and makes a failure and loses as a result of what they are trying to do
The people who win consistently spend their time refining the basics and making sure they are prepared.
Focus on being profitable for the week - Individual trades may go against you and individual trading days can offer little opportunity. As a senior trader once explained to me, for the active trader, however, there are enough fresh opportunities in a week to make it reasonable to set a goal of being profitable for the week. You won't reach your goal every single week, but the mere act of setting the goal keeps you focused. For example, you don't want to lose so much money in a single day that you can't make it back during the other days of the week. You also don't want to lose so much money on a single trade that you can't come back during the remainder of the day. When you really push yourself to be profitable every week, you don't let individual days get away from you. And when you don't let individual days get away from you, you start managing each trade carefully to ensure that your largest loss won't exceed your largest gain. Time and again I've seen a consistent sign of progress among developing traders: they stop digging themselves into holes.
Always have something to "lean on" - Scalpers will notice heavy and persistent selling at a certain tick, accompanied by large offers in the order book. They'll lean on that information to find a good entry to sell the market. If the offers disappear from the book or if new buyers start lifting those offers in size, they can get out quickly. Knowing you have something to lean on, however, allows you to ride out the noise between entry and exit. As long as what you're leaning on doesn't vanish, you stay with your idea
1) Before you put your capital at risk, have a well-formed trade idea;
2) When your idea pays you out quickly, take some profits;
3) Don't get caught up in individual trades; focus on profitability over a series of trades and days.

It means that success will not be found in better indicators, improved self-help techniques, or any of the endless parade of chart patterns, wave formations, numerology schemes, or moving average arrays.

Rather, success is achieved when we find markets and styles of trading that take maximum advantage of our skills and talents. That keeps us focused on markets and absorbed in them, enabling us--over time--to internalize their patterns.They know that risk control is as important as the other two legs of speculation, selection and timing. That is all this business of commodity trading gets down to, selection, timing, and risk control
May my assessment of today's price action be based upon the facts, all of the facts and nothing but the facts. May I not be influenced by fear, greed or the ill-advised comments of others, which may be made in their interests and not my own. May I take into account the past history laid before me on this chart and make my assessment based on my knowledge, and logic, and not my emotions.
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"Tape reading was an important part of the game; so was beginning at the right time; so was sticking to your position. But my greatest discovery was that a man must study general conditions, to size them so as to be able to anticipate probabilities." Reminiscences of a Stock Operator
There are 5 important achievements that every successful system trader must make.

1) You must know your own weaknesses. Each of us brings strengths and weaknesses to our own trading. Some find it exceedingly difficult not to tinker or play around with the markets when trading and in the process we don't follow our systems; some find it difficult to pull the trigger; some find it difficult to endure drawdowns of any size. Unless you know how you react to the markets and the pressures and elations of trading, you cannot compensate for your weaknesses.

2) You must understand statistics well enough to understand the limitations of trading using only history as our guide. I am constantly surprised by how many people get this wrong. Even the so-called "experts" in trading.

3) You must learn about trading systems, many of them, many different kinds of systems. In this process, you will learn that there are many answers, many paths to profits, but none of them are as neat and palatable as we might wish.

4) You must learn about brokers, markets, execution, risk, slippage, and other operational issues that affect trading profits. The best way to learn these issues is to start trading somewhere using a small account. It needs to be big enough that the losses matter but not so big that you will bankrupt yourself if you lose the entire account.

5) You must learn about yourself and how you react to all the items 1 to 4 above. This is perhaps the most important knowledge. How to fit your own personality, weaknesses and strengths, into the trading ecosystem. You might find you are bored with long-term system, or that you can't stand looking at screens, or that you need a robobroker to execute since you won't follow your systems closely enough. You will only learn this by being honest with yourself and by reflecting on what works and doesn't.

The best possible way to learn is to sit side by side with someone who knows what they are doing, but this is not possible for most, so you will likely need to find another way.

As far as a specific course of action, which is what you have asked for, I will offer one way that I think works pretty well. If you persevere and if you reflect on your own condition honestly, you have a good chance at success if you follow this course.

1) Buy some testing software and learn some of the well-known systems that work. There are many examples of systems that work out there. Play around with them, change them and see what happens. I'm obviously biased in my opinion of what software you should buy but I leave that decision to you.

2) Read and Study Trading. Initially, I suggest buying the Modus course. It is a very good foundation for people who don't know where to begin.

3) Start trading as soon as you think you are ready. Start small and don't worry about the profits, worry about what you learn about the markets and yourself. Consider your initial losses as tuition that all traders pay.

4) Honestly assess yourself on a regular basis. What did you learn? what are you having trouble with? What do you need to compensate for?

5) Repeat starting at 1).

One thing that troubles many people is the high cost of software and courses. Consider however, the high cost of trading incorretly as the alternative. If you can't afford software, save up until you can. If you can't afford money for a course, you likely can't afford to lose as much money as you will if you start trading without understanding what you are doing.

Last of all, don't be afraid to ask for the advice of others, even to pay for it where appropriate.

Keep one thing in mind, however, sometimes even successful traders are wrong about the reasons for their success. Trader A might think his success is due to his fancy computers and sophisticated algorithms when in reality his success is due to his having a solid foundation and good operational execution.

Trading well is not easy, but it is something you can learn if you have the perseverance combined with the humility to be realistic about your own strengths and weaknesses
For the most part, professional traders, syndicate traders, and the specialists, do not look at these things. They simply do not have the time. Professionals have to act swiftly, as soon as market conditions change, because they are up against other professionals who will act immediately against their interests if they are too slow in reacting to the market. The only way they can respond that fast is to understand and react, almost instinctively, to what the market is telling them. They read the market through volume and its relationship to price action[If you do find a colleague who is consistently correct, either learn his system so that you can use his tools with your own intuition and experience or delegate part of your trading strategy development to him.]To play the market properly requires silence, and seclusion to examine the situation, and to appraise, and deliberate on new information that comes to hand during the trading day. One must always have a clear strategy to play the market and clear rules to follow.
at least with regarding making decisions. If you can put aside what should be, what could be, what ought to be, what would have, could have, should have occurred, and just pay attention to what is actually happening, the act of paying attention transforms what is. The greatest action, the wisest, the best action that you can take in almost any situation is to stay with what is, instead of jumping to conclusions or trying to come up with conclusions.

I think one mistake novice traders make is that they begin trading before they have any real idea what they are doing. They are active, but they are not accomplishing anything. I hardly spend any time trading. Over 99 percent of my time is spent on the computer, doing research.
1]What markets are you going to trade? You need to select a market that fits your personality because a market is reflection of the people who trade it.
2)What is your trading capitalization? On the one hand, you should honestly be able to say, "If I lose all this money, won't change my lifestyle." On the other hand, you need a large enough account so that making at least as much as you do from your current job is a feasible goal. Otherwise, you will think that you are a failure because you will work harder as a trader than you do at the job you are in now.
3)How will orders be entered? Will you scale into positions or put them on all at once? How will you exit losing trades? How will you exit winning trades?What type of drawdown will cause you to stop trading and reevaluate your approach? What type of drawdown will cause you to shut down trading?
4)What are your profit goals, measured on as short a time frame as is feasible for your trading approach?
5)What procedure will you use for analyzing your trades?
6)What will you do if personal problems arise that could adversely impact your trading?
7)How will you set up your working environment so that it is conducive to trading and maximizes your chances for success

People underestimate the time it takes to succeed as a trader. Some people come here and think they can sit with me for a week and become great traders. How many people when they went to college would've thought to walk up to the professor and say, "I know the course is for a semester, but I think a week should be enough for me to get it." Gaining proficiency is the same in trading as in any other professionit requires experience, and experience takes time. A man few years ago asked me, "How long will it take me to become a professional trader so 1 can quit my job and support my family?"
"Three to five years," I said.
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"It is the very foundation of strategy to be able to adapt to any situation and continue fighting without losing heart. You gain this ability by practicing day in and day out with intensity." --Miyamoto Musashi

Just so a chart of the averages, or of a single stock, reflects the ideas, hopes, ambitions and purposes of the mass mind operating in the market, or of a manipulator handling a single stock. But when a student undertakes to read from his charts the purposes and objective of those who are responsible for a stock's action in the market, he is beginning to see, in a true light, the meaning of scientific stock speculation
As traders, we cannot afford the luxury of wishing and hoping because it puts us in a passive relationship with the markets. When we wish and hope, we are shifting responsibility on to the markets for making something happen instead of confronting the conditions and doing something about it ourselves. If we find ourselves wishing and hoping, it is an excellent indication that we don't know what is going on and as a result need to get out of the markets until we do.
The movement of price in any and all free markets is a function of the laws of pure supply and demand. Buying and selling opportunity emerges when this simple and straight forward relationship is out of balance.

"It is very important to visualize the many ways in which the market may unfold, rather than trying to forcast or predict how it will unfold. With a market understanding, you can begin to visualize each possibilitySuccessful real-time traders have a far better chance of taking their successful trading techniques and applying them to automated trading systems .
.......................................
so some answer has come, i am complying them for the benefit of all traderji.com forum member.also read view from cv.
1. why they r superior ?
ans. they are superior by experience and rationality.THEY JUST HAVE BETTER CONTROL OVER THEIR EMOTIONS AND ARE DISCIPLINES.they have better execution skill .
2. what time frame they trade?
ans. as they found which suit them with comfort and making money.
3. how far they r subjective in trading ?
ans. no subjectvity.as per system ..entry -exit condition r predefined.however
some sentimental condition r checked.
4. what r the reason for their actual consistency ?
ans.right plan and implementation.improving success rate.
5. on what condition they dont trade ?
ans. condition not suiting their plan. when r/r ratio not favourable.
6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss]?
ans. inbuild in the system.[hence nothing to worry]

7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?
ans.not following the plan.distract by others openion...soln . follow price in a disciplined way.
8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

ans. yes . discipline and a solid implemention plan including slippage.understand market and good money management.[ignore media]

so we clearly see some difference betn pro and serious amateur.
no1. level of comfort and serenity.
no2. least subjective.
no3.worst scenario is already planned and mastery over implemention.
key word is discipline and practicing their tool.
so from beginner u r moving on top...here u atleast know how to survive..irrespective of market u can run ur family by winning against other traders.
........................
so u r developing trading philosophy...plan new arsenal...to fight better.
so in is trade universe.3terms i introduce...exhausive, exclusive and intersection ie. interrelation between 2 element.
EXHAUSIVE..U HAVE TO GO INTO DETAIL
EXCLUSIVE..NO RELATION EXISTS..INDEPENDENT ELEMENT
INRERSECTION;INTERRELATION BETWEEN 2 ELEMENT...INTERRELATIONSHIP BETN MARKET...INTERRELATIONSHIP BETN MANY COMPANY IN A PARTICULAR SECTOR.
exhausive gives micro view.

so before reaching to become a master...one goes through various way to question and answer this 3 element...[may be in different name].he knows how far he understands...his limit..so now practice on regular basis[system]

and follow it diligently[discipline]
so i use 3 statistical term....

now u see all good thread ..search mode..nothing but ..can be expansion of 3 idea.

any other idea....yes EXECUTION.I DONT UNDERSTAND AS SLIPPAGE A BAD ELEMENT..BUT CV OPENS MY EYE,...i miss 3trades for slippage in intraday.
also some profit booking idea in real sense...so the difference with beginner and pro clearer to me..its IMPLEMENTATION.


HENCE THIS KEY WORDS U THINK IN THE LIGHT OF IMPLEMENTATION BY U.

so we find out the tools.....it is the system.
no real pro shall give u. though in trading system of beginner'....many a real tool r given for which i paid a lot.[to buy them]
tool is indicator..nothing but actual condition to initiate and close the trade. system is all those condition written ,taking care of exception.
scanner is software based predefined search condition.
filter is for keeping the best probable one for trade.
system testing is to build up confidence..and to bring rationality.

tradersedgeindia.com is definitely a good place to start with for beginners.
but if u know software, its language..can implement..best is to do like karthik.

otherwise for a beginner like us stick to tradersedgeindia.com

further elaborating the tools
..............................................
for intraday..its nothing but orderflow....price higher high break out concept.

for eod....predefined scanner.[u have to decide what u want]
for shortterm...support buy..
oversold condition...now price just starts to reverse.
[ suitable indicator signal which u rely]
for position play...some news impact not yet discounted in price.
continuty of trend in price[ma based]
something to check strength.
IMP: MINIMISING SUBJECTIVITY AND MEDIA HULLABULLA..IS UR JOB.
NEVER BELIEVE IN VALUE BUY AS A TRADER.NEVER FORGET STOPLOSS
Originally Posted by oilman5

i dont know,whether i am right to write here....forbidden art of trading will be exposed here.many a pro r available here in this great forum...i request them to make comments.
1. why they r superior ?

There is nobody superior or inferior as far as markets are concerned.......and the time you do feel that you are superior,that will be when the market cuts you down to size.


Quote:
2. what time frame they trade?

Intradays and position trading.......love playing the weekly as well as the 5min charts.


Quote:
3. how far they r subjective in trading ?

Used to love words like "subjective","mystical","intuition" once upon a time.......nowadays,the attitude is more to objectification of the whole process.Do whatever it takes,an automated system,or set points of entry,exit and the discipline to always follow the rules of your trading plan.Whatever........but one cannot beat all this fear and greed and hope,by joining the crowd.One therefore stands aside,follows the rules,practically robotic,day after day.


Quote:
4. what r the reasons for their actual consistency ?

A trading plan of attack,and then the discipline to follow it to the tee.



Quote:
5. on what condition they dont trade ?

There are many,like achieving the targets and more for the month.Also not trading if taking a hit and a predefined percentage point is hit.Or if there is some sort of family emergency......etc etc.

Of course,importantly,when I have a rip roaring,rollicking bullish 60min,I do NOT trade the 5min and stupidly go short.There is enough profits to be made just following the trend of the 60min and trading the 5.


Quote:
6. what is their contingency plan[enough is enough..now i am booking loss

Hmm.......stop loss for every trade.Position sizing appropriately.Set Risk percent per trade.Monitoring average wins,losses,drawdowns......blah blahblah,think that what everybody here already knows.


Quote:
7. what self sabotage u find most difficult to overcome..yet how u have done it ?

Anticipating a move before it happens,trying to get in even before your trading strategy says so.........got licked many times doing that.But not too much of a problem these days .........now in only when the move happens.



Quote:
8. do u think beginner trader[4yr amateur] can be like u oneday ?if yes. HOW!

Any fool can be a trader,every beginner trader can one day become an experienced one.Every trader with a plan and strategy that works can make money off the markets.Why then are 99% people failing at the markets?They go by what a newsletter,a self proclaimed guru,their broker,etc tells them to do.They go by their gut feel,or their neighbour's gut feel.They believe that making money is an evil act.They believe that trading the markets is for spare change .They have yet to educate themselves.They have no plan,no modus operandi,no strategy,no plan of attack...............

Approach trading like a business,have a business plan,a trading plan.We are in this to make money and lots of it,as in any business.But strangely,to make lots of money,you have to shift the mind's focus from making money to putting in that perfect trade.Although it's one and the same,you have to maintain focus on the trades.

Everything is cold,calculated strategy and then a disciplined implementation.We are in this to capitalise on other people's fear and other people's greed.......and for that,your own mind cannot work in the process of fear and greed.It has to be quiet.In the present moment.Practically like meditation.

Can anybody and everybody do it?Of course,provided you do all what it takes to be a trader.But sadly,that will never be the case........99% will always lose,not because it's difficult,but because these 99% will not approach it with a plan,with the required discipline.........That stat will always remain.

Can you be that 1%?Surely and definitely,provided you are willing to pay time and energy and focus to making yourself a great trader.

All the best!
Saint
I think to be successful in market you do not need any unique tool just follow any simple tool but with consistency.Pros are Pros because they believe in themselves and they do not get confused.So the best tool is your confidence and your power to observe and grasp things in as simple form as possible.Finally trading is a buisness and in every buisness there are few successful people so why so much hue and cry about trading loss.
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#38
First mistake is fear because of lack of knowledge with this comes two things :

Why it is happening
when it is going to happen.

2)Exiting when you are not supposed to exit and entering when you are not required to enter in a particular stock.

3)Counting on blessings and prayers if you are in this category believe me you trying to jump from a hill without any safety rope

( Just imagine a million people entering into a trade and half of them praying for market to go down a lil bit so that the short positions they have created they can exit in profit and half of them praying to market to go up because of a long position they have created they can exit. Imagine what God gonna think of these situation. He may say you all gone crazy on the other place he might ask who the hell has told you to catch the tail of a running elephant Don't put God in a confusion beacuse it was your mistake.

4) He calls this mistake illusion judgment: Spell bound with an imagination this stock is bound to go up and it will go up and one still wait and wait suddenly the stock enters into the red territory and one just stands there spell bound not believing not ready to accept and still waiting . Thats a deadly mistake.

5)Not doing the homework and entering into the danger zone on some dump shot recommendation and tips out of 10 dump shot 2 or 3 works and when rest 7 shots go wrong on a particular day it takes out the entire effort of the previous week how sad.!!

I still remember there was ones a person called Jai Reddy this guy I saw him trading daily one or two trades everyday and profit 10 to 20 K take home I said wow!! What a man I once asked him he used to sit at brokers terminal all day.
How do you do it,
he said to me u trade I said yeah!! From where 'I said" online "he said: well dear "internet I dont know" how to place a trade "I have a habit of coming everyday to this dealer I just love the terminal you Know"..I said how he does it .well just ignored me but I was after him everyday so one Saturday I caught him near a tea stall so requested him and he gave me 5 rules to follow I just gave above
His words I still remember he used to say: Your mind is a chart and your memory is a terminal and your strategy is your dealer who will push the target through

You can take those numbers home all you have to do is be quick and leave the greed

Every knew day has its own advantage after all its the eagle who grabs the pray even in the blowing wind it keeps on flying eyes constant and focused thats what you need he said. If your eyes are focused on a scrip everyday each passing day have patience believe me It will give you the opportunity to grab itJust try it
shall i show a tool?let us come to the point.

In order to succeed at trading, you must have an edge. Your edge begins with the knowledge you gain through your research and testing that a particular price pattern or market behavior offers a level of predictability and a risk to reward ratio that provides a consistently profitable outcome over time. Without it, one is just "playing" the market in order to have something to talk about on message boards. To get it, you have to know exactly what you're looking for and what to do with it once you've found it. This process is what the journal is all about.

The journal goes through several stages depending on where you are. Once you've decided where you want to concentrate your efforts (at this level, the journal may resemble a diary), then you begin the process of developing a system (or method, strategy, procedure, whatever you want to call it). Here the journal takes on a different character. Once you've developed a tentative/preliminary system, you begin testing/trading it, and the journal adopts a still different character.

The first step is to decide what kind of trader you want to be.

* What do you want to accomplish with your trading? Is it recreational? Supplementary income? A part-time job? Do you want to make a living at it? Even the greenest of the green knows whether or not he wants to make a living at it, trade only part time, trade for recreation, trade for the action, trade to have something to talk about with other traders (for whatever reason), trade only long enough to earn money to do or buy X.

* Do you have any idea what sort of trading is most comfortable? Long or intermediate-term trading? Short-term trading? Day-trading? Trend-trading? Scalping? (Note here that a short-term trader, for example, does not become a long-term trader just because his stop was hit and he didn't sell; a long-term trader doesn't become a short-term trader because he chickened out and sold too soon. Each of these approaches are selected deliberately and for thoroughly-considered reasons.) How patient are you? How adventurous? Are you a leader or a follower (most people think they're leaders)?
The second step is to decide what you're going to trade and when you're going to trade it.

* Have you found an instrument -- futures, stocks, ETFs, bonds, options -- that provides you with the range and volatility you require but also the safety that enables you to relax and trade in an objective and rational manner?

* Have you yet found a time (5m, hourly, weekly) or tick (1t, 200t) or volume (1K, 100K) interval that gives you enough trading opportunities but also gives you enough time to think about what you're doing? If you want to limit your trading to the "morning", are you physically and psychologically prepared to trade all day? If not, can you shrug off whatever opportunities you may miss by limiting the amount of time you spend trading?

The third step is to develop your system*.

A system consists of (a) a set of rules that you use to select profitable positions and (b) a set of rules that you use to manage the trade once you're in it. (*Note: again, whether you call it a system, a method, a strategy, a plan, a scheme, an approach, a procedure, or a modus operandi is not as important as sitting down and doing it.)

* Developing a system begins with deciding just what it is you're looking for. Therefore, begin by studying price movement in real time (or at the end of the day through "replay", if your charting program offers it). By "study", I mean to observe it with intent, not just read about it or listen to somebody talk about it. Note the conditions under which price rises, falls, drifts. Make every effort to avoid imposing your biases onto what you observe. You may see trading as a war, a competition, a game, or a puzzle. You may think you're out to kill somebody, outwit somebody, or are out only to detect the flow and slip into it, riding the waves as if you were sailing. None of this should be allowed to affect what you observe.

* Develop a set of preliminary hypotheses which exploit the profit opportunities presented by these movements, e.g. price began trending "here". Price broke out "there". Price reversed "there". What can I do to take advantage of that? What do I have to look for?

* Decide what strategy will best take advantage of what you think you've found. Are you looking to catch a reversal in the hopes that it will become a trend? Or are you looking to trade series of reversals within the day's or week's range? Or do you prefer to wait for a breakout and trade what may become a trend? Or would you rather wait for a retracement in what may be shaping up to be a trend? Limit yourself to only one strategy at the beginning.

Carefully define the setup which implements this strategy, preferably using old charts (attempting to define the setup by studying realtime charts is inefficient since you don't yet know what it is that you're looking for). This is called "backtesting". All else flows from this. Unless you know what you're looking for, you cannot test it, much less screen for it. If you have not tested it, you have no idea of the probability of its success. With no idea of the probability of success, any trades made are essentially guesses.

Therefore, focus on the setup. One setup. Determine its characteristics. Define it so specifically and so thoroughly that you can recognize it without any doubt whatsoever in real time. Decide provisionally where best to enter, what the target ought to be, where the stop should be placed, and so on. Only after the setup is defined and tested (and it can't, ipso facto, be tested until it's been defined) can one even begin to think about trading it with real money, much less trading multiple setups. Attempting to shortcut this process merely expands the amount of time it will take to develop the necessary skills. Nothing is gained by painting the house before scraping it, cleaning it, and priming it since you'll have to do it all over again sooner rather than later.

* Forward-test what you have so far, again using old charts, preferably replaying them (if replay is not available to you, then scroll through them, bar by bar). In other words, "pre-test" the setup. Make whatever modifications are necessary to the setup, i.e., re-examine and re-define your strategy. Address risk management, trade management, money management in further detail. Determine the ratio of winning trades to losing trades (you will, of course, have to define "winner" and "loser", which is where risk management and trade management come in). Determine the ratio of profit to loss. Determine the maximum loss. Determine the maximum number of consecutive losers.


Note that beginners often use "win/loss" to combine two separate considerations into one, and failing to keep them separate can create problems. One is win:lose. The other is profit:loss. Between the two, the "lose" and the "loss" have two distinct meanings. Win:lose refers to the ratio of winning trades to losing trades. Profit:loss means, expectedly, the ratio of profit to loss.
You'll read that the % of winners can be less than the % of losers as long as the winners are sufficiently profitable, one's management is superior, etc. And, yes, theoretically, one can "win" less than 50% of the time if his profits sufficiently outweigh his losses. But if your real-time real-money test begins with a string of the losses anticipated by your backtest, you'll be out of the game almost before it begins. In fact, one can be left high and dry even if his % of wins outnumber his % of losses, as mentioned above, if there is insufficient control of the amount of loss OR if the losses occur in sufficiently high numbers at the beginning of the trial.Then there are commissions and assorted trading costs to take into account, which is why traders who actually trade find that, without size, all the postulations about percentage don't mean much in practice.
* Paper-trade this plan, in a simulated environment, as a semi-final test, until you are satisfied that it performs at least as well as it did during the previous testing phase. This may take several months or more depending on how many trials you perform. If your plan is not consistently profitable, go back however many steps are necessary to arrive at a potential solution. (See also Making High Probability Trades.)

* Trade the plan using real money in real time, spending only what is absolutely necessary on "tools" and trading the minimum number of shares, contracts, etc., allowable. If your plan is not consistently profitable, go back .however many steps are necessary to arrive at a potential solution. Recalculate your win rate and profit:loss ratio on a continuing basis.

* If your plan is consistently profitable in practice, increase your size to what is a comfortable level, maintaining a continuous loop of re-appraisal and re-evaluation. When things come unglued, back up as far as necessary to regain your footing.


Novices rarely do any of this. They borrow something from somebody or somewhere and perhaps modify it somewhat, but they rarely go through the defining and testing process themselves. Some just try whatever seems like a good idea and hope for the best.

If one has absolutely no idea where to begin, there is nothing wrong with using a canned strategy IF it is used only as a point of departure. In other words, the canned strategy, regardless of what it is or what claims are made for it, still has to be tested, which often entails taking what is unexpectedly vague to begin with and defining it to a level of specificity that enables the testing to take place (it should come as no surprise that those who do go through the process succeed and those who don't, struggle, often to the point of being driven out of the market). Examples of canned strategies that are reasonably well-defined include the Darvas Box, the Ross Hook, the Opening Range Breakout, O'Neil's Cup With Handle, Dunnigan's One-Way Formula. Some of these are more vague than others and will require considerable work on definition before they can be tested. But they serve as points of departure
A journal should be more than just a trading log bought here, sold there, made this, lost that. It should be a record of your journey (that's why it's called a "journal"). If done correctly, a journal will reveal patterns. Patterns of what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong and when and how often and under what circumstances. Patterns of the behaviors of those who are trading your stock (bond, fund, option, whatever). Patterns of the market you're trading, of its cycles, of its stages, of what works at some stages and in some cycles and not in others. It will reveal much regarding your trading. It will also reveal much regarding your self.

Addressing the questions asked in Part One and defining and testing the setup are only the preliminaries. Eventually, one starts trading, if only on paper, and that is where the journal can make the difference between success and failure.

A journal is not just a record. It is also a plan. Before the first trade is ever made, even if only on paper, prepare for the day. Note any events that you should be aware of (reports, press releases, meetings, speeches, testimony, nuclear explosions, approaching meteors, etc). Write down reminders of any elements of the trading plan that you're having trouble with and what you intend to do about them, e.g., dont take any trades anywhere but at support or resistance or be wary of wide-range bars (this may be necessary as early as the afternoon of the first day).

Above all, record your justification for each and every trade. Record your thoughts before, during, and after the trade, written in real time* (your perception of what looks to you like a potential setup will change substantially after the setup resolves itself, and when you ask, later, what the hell was I thinking?, your record of your thoughts -- your "self-talk" -- will tell you, so that the next time, in real time, youll have a deeper and more rational perspective). This is more than just the reason for the trade (It looked like it was going to go up). It is more than the rationalization (It was time for it to go up). It is more than the mystic prompt ("I felt it was going to go up"). Its the justification for it, the explanation that one would provide to ones boss or client if he were trading for someone else. If everyone wrote down the reasons behind and justifications for every trade, their learning curves would be accelerated dramatically.

*

At the end of the day, review your decisions. Did you make good trading decisions, i.e., did you follow your rules or not? If you followed your rules but made one or more losing trades anyway, do any of your rules need to be re-examined? If you didnt follow one or more rules, which do you most often fail to follow? Whats the problem? What did you say to yourself at the time? What do you need to work on the following day? Always, what could you have done differently to improve the outcome? Can it be tested to find out if it's only an occasional anomaly or worth incorporating into the system?

And then you write down your detailed plan for the next day . . .

Everywhere there are people telling us that this path or that path is the one we should take. How are we to decide? Most of us end up stumbling along through a trial and error exploration of various systems, methods, techniques, and whatnot. Some of us find something that works. A great many do not, and quit in frustration, or broke. (John Forman)

Make journals a part of the daily routine Even if you dont trade on a particular day, it is valuable to review the days setups and behavior at key price levels. Reviewing patterns on different time frames can also help traders internalize the context of the markets they are trading, as well as the interrelationships among those markets. The French scientist Louis Pasteur observed that, in matters of observation, chance only favors prepared minds. Replaying market days, reviewing your own performance, and identifying missed opportunities prepares you for future performance, as your increasing familiarity with trading patterns sensitizes you to them in real time.

Incorporate specifics in your journals If I had to identify the single most common shortcoming among trading journals, it would be their absence of detail. Entries such as, I lost my discipline; I have to be more patient, might be nice as post-it reminders, but are inadequate as journal entries. Journals need to clearly state what happened, your assessment of why it happened, and the specific steps you intend to take to deal with the situation in the future. A good rule is that anyone reading your journal should be able to identify and follow the exact same steps that you intend to take in the future. Your journal should be a planning document, not a statement of intentions.

Wherever possible, review your journal entries with a valued colleague or mentor When I established a training program for new traders, one of my first steps was to insist upon daily review of trading journals. This required me to create a trusting and constructive environment, so that traders would be honest in their entries. Once that openness developed, the daily reviews became proactive planning sessions (usually shortly before the start of the trading day) that addressed issues before they could damage the profit/loss statement. Even more important, the daily review created expectations of accountability, as traders knew that my inevitable question would be, How did you do with your goals for the day
Use journals to review positive trading performance, as well as problems The number two shortcoming among journals is their focus on problems to the exclusion of solutions. If journals become a mere recounting of ones flaws and inadequacies, traders will inevitably lose interest in them. Traders can learn as much from what they do right as from their errors. My favorite instruction to new traders is to highlight in their journals one thing that they did right the previous day that they want to replicate today and one thing that they could improve upon in todays trading. This forces traders to stay in touch with their strengths, as well as their failings.

Each journal entry should include material about the markets and material about the trader It is not unusual for traders to emphasize one at the expense of the other. The core concept I stress with traders is that of pattern recognition. Traders display patterns in their behaviors: some of these are positive; others interfere with profitability. Markets enact their patterns as well; it is the trader who can see these as they emerge and act quickly that has the best chance of long-term success. Including material about trading patterns and traders patterns makes the journal a learning tool about oneself and the markets
OILMAN5
TRADING PERFORMANCE
.................................
VISUALISE..A chess player analyzing the board for the next move...
Trading as a Performance Activity.Humans choose when to take action and when to refrain; they can select various courses of action on different occasions and can invent new strategies when needed. performance is a function of the chosen actions of performers, the correctness of those choices, and the skill with which the actions are carried out. Activities that are performed well on a consistent basis require a high degree of skill. A lucky outcome is exception.There are individuals who can be identified as expert performers. With very rare exception, expert performers are ones who have developed their talents over time. Most expert performers undergo specialized training to cultivate their talents.

They require a specialized knowledge base. To perform well in a field, a person must master the information and skills specific to that field.
Trading, as a performance activity, has much in common with chess. It is competitive, requiring a high degree of concentration and strategy. It also features a limited number of actions that, in combination, create a large array of possible strategies and actions. This makes both activities easy to learn, but difficult to master. Chess can be played in lightning fashion, with very little time between moves, or it can allow players many minutes to plan movesor even days (postal chess). Trading can also be conducted on a very short-term basis or can be planned and executed over hours or days. These similarities make chess an excellent starting point for examining the performance dynamics of trading, especially since chess is one of the performance fields most studied by researchers.A well-replicated finding in chess research is that the memory processes of experts are different from those of non-experts. One intriguing set of studies took chessboard arrangements from a past tournament games and briefly showed them to expert players and novices. Afterward, the expert chess players were able to recall the positions of many more pieces than the novices. When the two groups were shown chessboards with randomly arranged pieces, however, their recall of the positions of the pieces was quite limited. The researchers conclusion was that experts do not have better memories than non-experts; rather, they have better memories for meaningful relationships among chess pieces. Instead of remembering where each individual piece was on the board, the experts viewed the board as clusters of pieces and remembered these. When the board was randomly arranged, there were no meaningful clusters of pieces and the experts had no effective means for encoding their information.

How do expert chess players gain this ability to perceive meaningful patterns among pieces? Because chess players are given ratings based upon their tournament play, it is relatively easy to compare experts (masters and grandmasters) with less accomplished players. When a variety of factors are incorporated into multiple regression equations to predict chess ratings, two stand out as highly significant:The number of books owned and The cumulative number of hours spent in practice correlation between the amount of time spent in practice and current performance ratings was .60
it is necessary to understand what chess books are and how they are used. These texts typically break the game down into components (opening, endgame, defenses, etc.) and present historical games from tournaments, along with annotation from an expert author. Readers do not merely skim over these games; they learn specific opening or defensive sequences and then see how these were utilized in actual games. They recreate those games on their own boards and carefully play through the positions, so that they can see what the expert players saw. They also play through alternate sequences to observe where these might lead.

Interestingly, chess experts do not have significantly more chess-playing experience than non-experts. Rather, a higher percentage of the experience of experts is spent in the systematic practice of various facets of the game. Non-experts tend to spend a higher proportion of their time in games against similarly-skilled opponents. This experience neither exposes the learner to the moves of experts, nor does it provide time for a careful review of moves, exploration of alternate lines, etc. In the Charness work, the correlation between solitary practice and chess ratings is almost twice as high as the correlation between practice with others and ratings. This is because solitary practice with chess books allows learners to obtain chess knowledge in context. Instead of focusing on the moves of an opponent, learners encounteragain and againthose meaningful configurations of pieces that appear in the games of experts
Because of this, chess students can create and play through almost any challenging situation imaginable, drawing upon the accumulated wisdom of experts. Trading possesses no such database. Trading books, unlike chess texts, are not annotated compilations of the trading decisions of objectively rated experts. One cannot use trading books to recreate trading sessions or to systematically explore trading decisions and their alternatives.As a result, traders tend to spend little time in the systematic practice that is the single greatest predictor of chess expertise.REMEMBER...In every performance field, the development and maintenance of expertise requires a high ratio of time spent in practice relative to time spent in actual performance.Athletes spend far more time working out, practicing, and scrimmaging than actually playing in competitive events.Only significant time spent in absorbing winning and losing chess enables players to internalize the patterns of play that distinguish experts from non-experts. The trader who spends more time to learn,observe and practice..definitely is superior.The expert trader needs to be able to review and re-experience markets and systematically rehearse facets of trading performance: entering, managing, and exiting positions.Think of each trading session as a chess game, and each game as a contest between two expert players named Bull and Bear. Every short-term swing in the market is a move by Bull or Bear that ultimately leads either to a victory for one of them or a draw. In tracking the moves of Bull and Bear, we can pause the match at any point and observe how each player exploits the weak moves of the other. With the aid of an electronic database that collates similar trading sessions, we can even explore how alternate moves by each side produce different outcomes. Moreover, we can play and replay the games (and their similar variants), seeing if our simulated trading decisions accurately reflect our reading of the strengths and weaknesses of the players positions.

How could we practice this?Programs that allow users to save and replay tick data are especially valuable, as this creates a library of trading sessions akin to the collections of chess games found in books... general rules and advice do not turn chess novices into experts, and there is no reason to believe they will advance the performance curve for traders. Knowledge and practiceand especially the direct experience of knowledge-in-practiceare the keys to the acquisition of expertise.so now we know why most socalled traders fail.. they have failed to structure their learning to facilitate expertise.
they fail to put systematic work into performance....HENCE LEARN DYNAMIC TRADING CONCEPT..AND IMPLEMENT IT.
with regards to all
trade sheet
...................
column
no heading
1 dt
2 name of stock
3 type of trade..buy/sell
4. trade set up condition..gap/ volume spike/support pt
result out/ commodity price up
5. entry condition ..pull back/ break out/ continuation
6. money alloted ..no of stock x price
7. style of trade ..day/ short term / inter mediate
8. present value of nifty
9. any hype at present...
10. stop loss
11. profit booking strategy ....1.................2
12. profit target.. p1............p2

13. additional buy strategy/ with reason
14. sell dt and NIFTY VALUE

15. sell quantity x sell price..
16. whether trade is profit...howmuch
17. whether trade is loss.. howmuch
18. have u followed stop and SAR. IF NOT WHY
19. reason of sell
20. cost of trade[ comission+ tax]
21. your net profit
22. your monthly rate of return..

2nd sheet ..monthly performance sheet
.................................................. ...

column description

1 month
2 total no of trade in month
3. no of winning trade
4. total amount of winning
5. no of lossing trade
6. total amount of losing
7. net profit/ loss in a month
8. is losing trade shown some pattern failure/
wrong assumption
9. av. win amount per trade per lakh
10. increase of your equity value..
11. percentage of wrong trade
12. risk amount in each trade. value ..in %
13. drawdown condition to quit
14. monthly yield compare to nifty yield in month

note.. its best if u plot this equity curve

...so u win by winning in thinking...planning..better than in higher time frame.
only idea to play to make money...wherever u buy u have to sell higher.
so when we buy ...hoping now it shall move up.suppose i play 10min. chess against u [ur time limit 1hr]...still i shall win..as i have practiced it more than 6yr....so amateur shall lose unless unless ..within 1st ten of a state..with rating higher than 2200.same case in trade...i novice must lose against good pro SS ...as i fumble before entry...where as u know actual move ....

bookish idea has given clearly by dr elder.BUT I BELIEVE ALL BIG MOVE MUST START WITH SMALL ONE.....AFTER X...3-5% VALUE IT HAS SOME TENDENCY TO CONTINUE...MANY A FAIL...THATS RANDOM MOVE...

so predictive resistance is a profit booking idea for support buyer...and x pt is nothing but oppurtunity for break out player..
as a pro since u play both ...u know ...i am right...

however monumental works done by j m hurst........

also at www.ino.com....regarding which time frame to choose....for formless trading

Q.'when somebody goes against the trend on Daily charts, ie let us say the trend is up, and you sell, will it not be a blunder? Remember, you are initiating a trade in the wrong direction in the first place and then you hope to cover!?

ANSWER 'on purity basis against primary wave..intermediate term ..short move occurs which utilise wisely by pro like u.so the person knows bothside of story...when to feed ...when to ride.SIGNAL MUST LITTLE DIFFICULT TO EMPLOY...HOWEVER..those who have seen enough[by staying in mumbai..nearby sea and financial capital can react quickly enough to earn..
for fool like us ..its a losing game...winning little,lose more...out of frustation missing the big oppurtunity.

basis of profit is how many fools r after u...the story of catching bear before it catches u..suddenly gun found locked...its ur turn to run...hoping u run faster...and bear catch ur friend who is not so expert in flying away...i see this analogy on regular basis on tv...telling to HOLD..BY SUITED BOOTED PRO...SO THAT THEY CAN GET OUT...OR SHORT WELL...

TRUE STENGTH...SEE THE BIGGER WAVE ..BEFORE ITS FORMING...
THE PROBABLE PT WHERE IT CAN FORM...
READY WITH MONEY TO TAKE POSITION..
ALTERNATE SCENARIO...[AS SUGGESTED BY GREAT CV]...KEEP EYE..JOIN WHERE AND WHEN BIG WAVE IS FORMING...OTHERWISE SIT IDLE.

note: on a trade basically u r trading an openion [bullish or bearish] with money......always ready to be wrong[being humbled by market]and occasionally u shall be correct...but when right bet big,..BIG ENOUGH to run your family expediture on a single trade. price confirmation is the only condition for holding a trade.
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#39
its a two way percept..unfortunately various timeframe viewing by others with biased openion made it complex. next the fear if i wrong..dilemma
create situation an abrakidabra........ur vision /sense/price direction guidance
............with the help of experience can keep u in right track....analyst does the thing after..only a trader can move through by balance,indicator is nothing but an approach to rationalise it.
first step necessity to avoid self sabotage clarified
Poor money management
Trading against the trend
Over reliance on discretion for entries and exits
Failure to confirm trends and setups on longer timeframes
Poor use of stop loss orders (too close, or too far away) - placing them for the wrong reasons
Overtrading
NEXT WE GO TO LEARN
Identify the trend, and trade with the trend
Confirm setups with multiple timeframes (5min, 30min, and daily for intra-day trading)
Keep a full record trades taken, MONEY won/lost, reasons for entering and exiting, and thoughts
Keep small stakes for the time being, until consistent profits can be achieved
Avoidance of "gamble entries" and high risk trades

THEN ONLY LOOK FOR HIGHER LEVEL
1. DEVELOPMENT OF A TRADING PHILOSOPHY
2.DEFENSIVE TRADING STYLE
3.DEFINE RISK AND YOUR RISK TOLERANCE LEVEL AND TIME FRAME U NORMALLY TRADE RIGHT
4.PRINCIPLE VS ACTUAL TRADING RESULT
5.LOOK FOR THE SIGNIFICANT FACTOR ..HOW TO DO NEWS TRADING
6. CAN U LEVERAGE IN REAL SENSE? CONCEPT OF USE MORE MONEY TO WINNER.......CONCEPT TO USE TIME BY TAKING PAID CALL...CONCEPT OF BACKTEST TO USE TO WHAT WORKS IN PAST FOR CONFIDENCE BUILD UP
7. BELIEVE IN PROBALISTIC THEORY , YET A FEEL FOR PRICE...BUT CONTINUE TO TRADE AND HOLD ONLY IN THE DIRECTION OF TRADE...KEEP FAITH AS PRICE IS SUPREME.

.................
SO THE TOOL IS NOTHING BUT HIMSELF BY WHICH PLAYING IN HIS STRONG ZONE HE CONSISTENTLY MAKES MONEY OUT OF MARKET [ANY INDICATOR OR INDICATORS WHICH SIGNAL CONFIDENT RATIONALISED BUY AND SELL]HE KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE SUBJECTIVITY..RUMOR...LOSS AND PROFIT...

PS. i have professional operational research background...presently given a complex risk analysis for a project...so i have to move out before inauguration of my present project.[ i believe in hard work philosophy....so the load comes to me ...its 14 month project...real swot and actual implementation.i traded @2002-03 with earning 50000pm-salary cut 30000=20000pm...hence only swing trading possible.Offerred job 1yrback @60000, but i decline.my long association with chess reflected .in last 4 yr of testing and trading with real money...many a system checked based on metastock /omnitrader....only some useful one in beginners term ...i write it in trading system of beginner'
without mathematical jargon[ GOD knows how difficult to control my mathematical inclination....regularly abused by GM[ a qualified engineer with versatile project depth,of course an MBA...'who can follow this 3vector nonsense risk analysis and profitability.......make it simple so CA can sanction
...give him only bep....+3month pert [OR term]...............i can take credit..
my boss never believes...i can write in plain and simple english.
traderji.com...an excellent forum for budding trader ....these are my 3 gold coins..
HOWEVER 1 HAS TO READ TO FIT JIGSAW PUZZLE...another hints read /use dynamic trading ...use price , volume and time element
must have some method to understand price increament shall continue
and then another when price dilution coming.
high probable trade
............................
its the directional bias...where most waiting watchers r ready to join..
market buying r coming...big volume r increasing

concept is use momentum ...act now.

another concept a trend started yesterday 3pm..hence further steam left.
scan at night for candidate.

without any news. on real time..sudden volume surge..price is also moving up.
ACT NOW ..NO TIME TO THINK make money
shortterm trade/ swing trade
............................................
here u must reqd eod . a software ..preferably some risk reward analysis
some low risk entry tactics and stop-umbrella to save from rain.

u have to define entry characteristic .
1. entry after break out over longterm resistance zone
2. after twice bounce in support ..price just starts moving up.
3. sector starts moving up..stock has good rel strength comparison within sector.

stop
......below 5% of last week low
if not 4% up move occurs within 5 trade days..use time stop

profit target 8-10% from entry..however after 5-6% price is NOT HOLDING
....get out with small profit...than turn profit into loss

for momentum base swing trade..refer david landry and crabel works
for system study see beyond ta..by tusher chande
for me some% up with volume increase...in metastock RSC EXPLORER candidate must be in upperside.
yes i use eye ball technique and pattern failure[ in h&s when instead of fall price starts move up and w.pattern price slowly starts moving..acceptance of price]

however .if u see eod chart + 7 month weekly chart u can see
reason behind . call and exit..by the way my system has subjective criteria. and i actually trade in position size higher on winner

position trade contd
...............................
most imp part of position trade is stock list...here u know from back ground move shall continue..further..as u try for bigger profit ,failure rate is high.
hence u must have inbuild mmsystem to get out with small loss and addon winner....mark boucher course is very helpful.

say being in known field i must track some news on company..
also result out of infy ..how + affect midcap computer company..

as position trade is a judgement game..hit of the moment decision should NEVER be taken..infact temporary fall is a great buy oppurtunity

strength indicator on 2week chart basis [ ie converting data on 10day high-low-close basis available in metastock] is good way to see.
in rangebound market...willium%r at oversold zone good indicator
in trend market , i use aroon .
after long fall, weekly chart engulfing bull i use for entry+ bill williums chaos entry signal
.......for stop simple sar as available in metastock...apart form subjective pattern stop and time stop.
profit booking ...50% quick booking
if however quickly price moving up .instead of sell i buy double as its low risk trade[ in the language of traderji confirmation by price]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-momentum short plan
.............................
this condition to be created by media..rumor of market shall goup ..vs pro have already sold..now some -divergence can be seen ...price slowly starts falling..now tv must speak again and again ..threat percept...more sell order coming in nifty future...NOW ONLY THE TIME for short...hence its a short term quick execution ..a bull market top trade ..with propaganda from media
otherwise harsh bad news....when most participant prefer to sit on cash[bulls r running away]

with hold ing stock its a conflicting trade..better sell holding first.
system implementation
..............................
1. assumption .....condition of trade....if it does not exist no trade
2. entry..particular signal
3. holding profit one...give time.
4. exit..with profit target
with loss.
5. contingency plan..to save skin.
6. write after complete..of trade what i learn ..implementation vs. reaction of me based on fact.

this all elements r clearly written ..what actually works.
OTHER ELEMENT
........................
u factor..how to be neutralised so that i can think right.before taking position i must have an openion but PRICE must confirm my openion otherwise i must use stop and book loss to throw away openion.
.MARKET HAS TRENDINESS AND ALSO UNPREDICTABILITY ELEMENT. NEWS AFFECT MARKET [UNKNOWN EVENT]....MAJORITY TRIES TO GUESS WHAT MAJORITY MAY DO , TAKING RISK OF PREDICTION BY PUTTING MONEY BUT READY TO RETREAT IF WRONG........PUT MORE MONEY WHEN RIGHT.

since u have asked i place my personal openioned model
.................................................. ...........................
u have to work on prediction model in which chance of RIGHT/BEING WRONG has to evaluated.

a. company result..good business../..20% weightage
b. macro economy + moneyflow....40% weightage
c.sector business ..priority 20% weightage
d. other factor..operators game/random factor ..20% weightage

total 100%
ALWAYS TAKE CHANCE OF BEING WRONG 40%...SO THAT IF WRONG ...MUST BE PREPARED

by the chart , i SEE how others r viewing..ready with my move ..tv news guide me how fools shall behave,..many a time i am wrong ..but i stick to it.
as trading is not a game of perfection , 50%accuracy sufficient.

IT IS THE DAYTRADING..UR ULTIMATE SKILL WILL BE TESTED
UNLESS EXECUTION MASTER..AND GREAT SURVIVAL SKILL'DONT COME'...however its a reality checking m/c to know where u stand in trading arena.
so from beginner u r moving on top...here u atleast know how to survive..irrespective of market u can run ur family by winning against other traders.
........................
so u r developing trading philosophy...plan new arsenal...to fight better.
so it is trade universe.3terms i introduce...exhausive, exclusive and intersection ie. interrelation between 2 element.
EXHAUSIVE..U HAVE TO GO INTO DETAIL
EXCLUSIVE..NO RELATION EXISTS..INDEPENDENT ELEMENT
INRERSECTION;INTERRELATION BETWEEN 2 ELEMENT...INTERRELATIONSHIP BETN MARKET...INTERRELATIONSHIP BETN MANY COMPANY IN A PARTICULAR SECTOR.
exhausive gives micro view.

so before reaching to become a master...one goes through various way to question and answer this 3 element...[may be in different name].he knows how far he understands...his limit..so now practice on regular basis[system]

and follow it diligently[discipline]
so i use 3 statistical term....

now u see all good thread ..search mode..nothing but ..can be expansion of 3 idea.

any other idea....yes EXECUTION.I DONT UNDERSTAND AS SLIPPAGE A BAD ELEMENT..BUT CV OPENS MY EYE,...i miss 3trades for slippage in intraday.
also some profit booking idea in real sense...so the difference with beginner and pro clearer to me..its IMPLEMENTATION.

...................................
trading must be treated as business ..not hobby
its the dream .. supplier of new fool..
all mf r waiting../.
you must know how to handle business venture...dream vs. REALITY
MUST KNOW A/C...
PROFIT/LOSS..
WHAT MAKES A BUSINESS CLICK?
BREAK EVEN ANALYSIS
A-B-C ANALYSIS..
SWOT...[FOR YOU]
DETERMINATION & PERSEVERENCE..come back next day attitude
no of stock to watch
.............................
4-5 min each chart...if u have 2 hr..20-25 stock

alternatively scanner helps to find particular conditional filter.
then watch them thoroughly for next day..hence more candidate for prelim.scan list..however nifty must be studied..
compare nifty with that stock..better strength in last 2day must

pl prepare the condition of filter carefully..u shall hit or miss because of this
tradersedgeindia....is good.
rbi policy is imp now..economy/rain prediction shall show its headline..
personally price i like ..its naked truth..but in india so many funda-hype. trader...i must see their view and conviction..its the subjective judgement when to follow trend and when to be contrarian

however live with uncertainity. position management and risk control..can make u a trader.
subjective view
......................
preview...before an insident u r taking a view..what may happen.
review....after an insident u analise.
proview..while insident is happening ..u r taking decision[pick among best alternative]..acting in your best interest.
this PROVIEW is the aim of a successful trader.use preview.do review later...
follow proview to get money...avoid danger
do u find difficulty ? think of childhood..writing essay...introduction...
body[proview]...
conclusion[review]..

leading indicator must be used for preview..idea..fundamental estimate..
a trade plan...but on actual market ..only proview..lagging indicator on intraday chart basis...observe and act....at 17-30hr.review of trade..
if u r like me..review in end of week.
never ever introduction to get highest priority..hence openion always comes last....this order should never be broken[if u want to money out of market]

bullish view.....how far market can go up ..at what time limit..
an analyst writes tcs price target 1650..it means 1sigma.66% chance of reaching tcs 1650 within a yr of time..if present condition [linear interpolation] prevails
if he writes conservative target 1600...itmeans 95%[2sigma]
chance of achieving that target within a yr

now again on new quarterly result out/review of company this may be edited depending on prevailing market condition

however conviction is rare in analyst ..to put big money...WHY?

HE KNOWS THE RISK/ASSUMPTION..which rarely get published..
the trick of management ...promotion sell

sentiment change..alternate scenario..how far market can fall?
at what duration it shall continue...nobody knows..but fibonacci definitely helps the trader..where is support...commit little money..commit and see
price reversing ..hey u get it right..buy more now!

hence market movement offers enough oppurtunity to active observer
methodical man can make money out of it.
TIME FRAME....
it takes time to understand..realisation of capability ..dream vs. reality

patience to bloom oppurtunity[let profit run]

time to observe[search mode] and right time to implement[execution]

but we forget TIME TO LEARN..

DIFFICULT ONE.. time to check own performance[what i am]
tree must be seen before branch...bigger picture must be taken first.
economy/world view/political position ..ofcourse..fii cash flow at present
...understand my view..its not bullish/bearish ..nor goal..
upbeat on economy..
funding
stability or continuity...this 3 element only....

for fii cash flow...a comparative base 10 days ago[2week]

this is only tool i use for fundamental element
only timeframe that suits u. where u can think/visualise .
visualise what may happen .....that is happening later..

can u execute ?another critical question!
if not, place order on phone..allow others to place order..
let other may see the screne...
but decision making process should not be faught with internal dilemma

its a known fact in chess..half hr chess is better than 5min..1 hr rapid is better .2hr is further better..classic chess brings out of a champ...

definitely time to think improve quality...quality of selection and timing...

and see the ploy/decoy..so called news trap and marketing/gimic...
foolish greedy bull trap...
fortunately u , trader has another weapon..time out....stop loss
 

oilman5

Well-Known Member
#40
now i follow trade learner thread
..............................................
say mr dhakkan.........an exceptional knowledgable fellow loses in market.........where as sgm earns from market regular basis.
...........answer is right initiation.
u must have zeal to learn..........not zeal for trading.
.................................................. .....................
.................................................. .....................
personal adaptibility..............another key theme.
.................................................. ........
in ur personal life .........u play different role, though u feel trader in u, can surpass other
................fact may be its incoherent with ur service life,family life.so u have to put trader in u..........in spl nursery.............to grow it up........under best care by u
IT TAKES TIME.
.........................................
aim to be a professional trader...........who gets 100% annual return from market........that is only job.normally it takes 4yr after initiation to become a pro.
since middleclass and concept of earn and learn imp...........it reqd some time before initiation..........from amateur to pro.
so this amateur state to be defined...............approx. 3yr........gather knowledge......
take trade here and there..........some profit some loss..........many profits......then some big loss .......back to square one[ludo]............journey to take tips.......with mixed experience.....reading ta books /internet /message board/tv watch/fundamental of business..and economy.............lucky to be get mentor........or learn by hard knock from market.
one thing is sure..................he knows whether trading is for him...........so his next attempt is serious[if not perished already]
.................................................. ............
so amateur now knows value of knowledge, danger of half knowledge ......imp of risk analysis.........value of probability
can he be governed by price or by opinion....................will decide his fate.
.................................................. ......................
if opinion comeback to fa..........learn to be an analyst[an mba in finance or cfa in india]
study and investigate............talk and talk.......sell product[to client name of share.....a dream].............ofcourse buy it in name of relatives[to avoid insider trap]........yes its a way........workable...........big names do in india
so called fund managers..........+aggressive propaganda/marketting in tv channels
.................................................. ...............................................
problem of opinion is...........u can not use stop.basically amateur trades based on emotion...........forgetting its a game of maturity.worst is..........a trade loss not booked
...........converted to an investment.............a bigger loss[i have enough in this trap]
how a fa works?...........he gets info beforehand........he can interpret quickly[mind it i dont use word accurately]................report will publish soon .........media shall hype it later...........they earn by proximity..........an example [i am loser here...........ongc for oil price up.........will get huge profit from ongc videsh.......so i take position......as result is not yet published..........excess profit around 20000cr...........what u think ...i hit a jackpot?........fact is some 2weeks back it is decided it had to pay subcidy burden of 30000cr............since others downstream company not earning........

JUST SEE ONGC CHART.......DAILY FROM 15TH APRIL '08......TILL DATE

so fund manager starts dumping on every oppurtunity.........go short at 1020-1002 zone
with a target of 950 short term........on confirmation by news 850..........so most investrader like me massmurdered.........
..............
on the contrary a great ta trader cv[hypothetical , if u like its saint]........can see sudden strong bearish attack............in ONGC........HE HAS NO OPINION ,HE JUST BELIEVE IN PRICE...........[pivot is breaking down for follower of saint]..........make short of 4lot...........225x4x Rs50/-=45000 earning in a week.
.....so do i make myself clear ........how a pro earn ?......wait for oppurtunity ....utilise it when it comes[execution]
an enormous amount of information u have to gather and assimilate...........then understand game of hype.
........................
instead if u understand chart.....................chance of success av joe is higher.so now
perceive.....a method is reqd,discipline is reqd.............commitment is reqd..........only on those condition i shall trade.............otherwise shall pass on.
so ..........trade-learner..........must never be an investrader.
must not believe in gossip/tips
a routine to learn...........a habit of self evaluation ........take practice trade ........and evalute why he is right/when wrong why?.........that is praticing of right side of chart......a software called omnitrader'......has this game playing mode.......excellent for trade learner.........as its choose stock.........one yr back.......now allow u guess right.....bar by bar ......game goes on...pattern will be developed before ur eye.
chart is nothing but reflection of market participants..........interpretation...........wha t is ur perception ?.........what on earth is ur superiority to predict right side........RIGHT ......most of the time.
yes only by watching u can learn how to watch...........do it......learn swimming only by swim,learn driving only by driving..........yes u reqd zeal...........zeal not to trade but to watch.....how beautifully its telling .........untold story of market.......u can check accuracy later..........by reading newspaper.
have u heard word 'volatility'..........its nothing but predictive power is poor.....at random in statistical term --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so conceptually u have to kill ur investment attitude..........develop a feel for price....be indifferent to habit of listen to news[media hype].
so u know what u r doing...................
let us come to game of caution ............speculation.self question how far u r right by yourself?........so far no help comes..........can u survive on own?if yes.......how is ur ESP?..........just shuffle a deck of cards............draw 1........can u guess?draw another......2nd guess.......r u right this time?..........ok .....let us make this simple......
distribute......52 cards in 4hands.........now see 1 hand[13cards].........can u guess other cards?.........so in other hands what is there.............can u see by observing other 13 cards................just check ur accuracy level and perception..........now by seeing 3rd hand, anybody can tell.......other 13[52-13-13-13=13]
...............if u dont like cards......simply take a dice ...1-2-3-4-5-6.let it be rolled.........
but u guess......beforehand........outcome......50 observation........,say sl no ur chosen no,actual observation...........how many times both r right...............just see.
if u r less than 40% correct.............throw away............just understand speculation is a loser's game.
THEN HOW U SHALL TRY?
be reactionary............follow trend.........when random ,simply sit out.
understand trend........then trend continuity...........at what condition u shall enter.......how u shall know .......U R WRONG THIS TIME..............simply get out.
THIS CONCEPT ,QUESTIONING,ART OF LEARNING..........R EXCEPTIONALLY MADE SIMPLE BY SAINT ,CV,UASISH,TRADERJI...........JUST READ THEM
definitely trader in u,..........will get good oxygen to live long
....................
then learn to question ......idea behind those trade.........can u assimilate.......read dr elder..........its stimulant for a trader
so a trade-learner knows what to read........knowledge is over........however he does not know how market works............this he has to learn by self
...........................
i just put some facts
1.MARKET IS NOT PREDICTABLE,PATIENCE PAYS
2.BASED ON OPPURTUNITY AS DEFINED ,EFFICIENT MARKET OBSERVER CAN MAKE MONEY OUT OF MARKET.
3.MANY A TIME U R WRONG,JUST LOSE LESS.......SOMETIMES U R RIGHT.........USE BETTER MONEY MANAGEMENT TO EARN OUT OF IT.
4.TREND PLAN IS EASIER TO FOLLOW
5.TRADEZONE IS EASIER TO DEFINE...........DIFFICULT TO MAKE MONEY OUT OF IT.
6.KILL UR INVESTMENT AND GAMBLING ATTITUDE ..........BEFORE THEY RUIN U.
7.WITH TIME U CAN LEARN..........WITHOUT A DEFINED SYSTEM......ITS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SURVIVE IN MARKET
8.UNDERSTAND TREND TERMINATION.
9.RISK ANALYSIS IS MUST,THROW AWAY....HOPE,FEAR,GREED
10.DEFINE A TIME FRAME IN WHICH U CAN OUTGUESS OTHER TRADER ON REGULAR BASIS[UR EARNING STATEMENT ,DRAWDOWN ANALYSIS TELLS U].......JUST STICK TO IT
.................................................. .....................
so what r the factors trade-learner should see?
1. self modification.........throwing out investment attitude /gambling tendency........replace with defined risk strategy
2.understand that price is always balanced..............but may have a biased in longer time frame.........say last week chart suggests -bias for nifty...........so on monday by confirmation by price.......around 11-1130..........u r supposed to short ...........allowing profit book on thursday.........1030 hr.if u can not see..........bearish scenario.......u r yet to learn it................profit from price......is not that easy.somewhere......u have some opinion......fear/hope...........which is self destructive.
3. so a system is called for.........3way price can move........up down nowhere.
be ready .........for all three.........i.e. strategic planning.............now based on your signal trigger.............u enter.get out..........when continuity in that direction nomore high probability.
demand supply is an imp concept..............here students of economics have superiority.
higher the demand price shall move up in stock..........if more money is chasing....so is the demand.money flow concept.........float analysis.........suggests what may be expectation.......strength of buyer's conviction.
otherone is giant footprint...............what big fund managers/fii r doing............try to get that info........NOT MEDIA HYPE.chance of earning by u easier.......when u flow in same direction .........not against them.
read to understand..............accumulation and distribution.........study in on chart.......definitely u can tell what is actually going on.yes .........if u can say accurately...........present phase an actual distribution,u can avoid bulltrap.u know its accumulation at lower price...................simply take position.Naturally to understand this concept............basic support/resistance u know........and their intricacy i.e. dynamic support/resistance +pivot/swing pt.
take any software..........study the price.........spend some hr........soon u know them
some person believes gap study........helps to understand continuity........also flag/pennant/triangle.................i.e. little tougher for starter........but before conversion of pro it should be in ur arsenal.basic pro ......see the chart........decide what to be done........strictly do that.................superior pro[300%+return]..........see the chart.......to know how other pros shall behave,other majority traders........line of action.
so give weightage ...who can win........how easily.......strength and conviction in trend.
Thats why he makes big money........out of market........strong visualisation and watchful eye.........a master in execution and money management.
ORDINARY MORTAL SHOULD DREAM OF IT........so that they can be atleast a pro.
...........................................let us see some successful traders .........i have seen them.
trader A............a scalper......a future player......a trade vetaren,believes in some condition of market shall make a directional move possible,......based on extensive backtesting, develop programme code.......real time explorer signal ,enter trade....
book profit/loss after some minute.naturally its need not to say %accuracy very high .
trader B..........another scalper.......future player,screen addict,programmer.....believe in no psychological issue.........follow dynamic strength/weakness zone .......take reversal trade........accuracy level very high,also have discreation of position size,based on signal strength.
traderC............half hr signal based trader.....comes to tv,believe in pattern....buy on low,reverse penetration of half size candle,stop at1stick below lower candle......no programme.....just eyeball,watch multi chart in iris,16@a time two screen=32 stock,..around 70%accuracy level,has a pro friend to save his skin other 30%by flashing call.
trader D........an exceptional knowledgable person,a mature of market,use hrly chart,calmly trade based on trend........study mostly at night.......another future/call-put player...........use trade continuity concept+mm.
trader E........a nervous trader.......guides his boys to take now....dont click himself,break out........principle..........tells them where stop zone........add them to 5times on right trade,ask them@3-30 what happened,.......mean while dont see same position again in intraday. i ask him?........his suggestion.......since he knows him, its 2nd observation on price will affect his objectivity, instead he search for other oppurtunity....
moreover this 15000/-pm boys can handle better execution and observe scenario after entry.
trader F........eod player,news study.........whether its for dumping/may create euphoria.
cool enough to get out if wrong.
................
trader G.......amateur trader like me[different profession...loser in day trade]has a list of around 80 stock in different sector,all he knows of fundamentals.......at what condition they shall move up.....track result and order flow,also macro economy.so when big fall comes he sees how far big fall possible,when pro starts accumulation........from chart he see just accumulation.......and big volume charning at top to get out. no he dont use stop.........but definitely sell total portfolio.......yes this amateur earn 100%return in all last 5 yr,including this yr....40%........trade only on those stock where he knows,has a notebook......on which fundamental change offer an oppurtunity for which stock[groupA and midcap.....member of equitymaster,nothing else....through ***** base see free data
....definitely give 2hr a day in study...and weekend portfolio analysis.....definitely buy after big fall .......a contrarian character.
.................................................. ...........
yes i have seen them........not while they bloom,after in their maturity.......though 6 of them r different........deadly accurate in their craft......no hotchpotch.common theme......to reach there they evolve.......and stick to it.another thing.......they r honest
[though trader E hides to his staff,trader C braggs regarding market opinion as profession.trader F....regarding his job success]...........commitment exceptionally high.
..........................
recently i have a meet of a group of 15, so called trade dreamers.........i told them ...'none of u r suitable for trading'.........come to reality...dreaming is good to start new business....hard work pays there..........here u reqd some typical knack and do alone attitude. u have to do habit of interpretation...go with the flow.......unfortunately most people r blocked by own trap......clean slate is reqd.even a great SAINT can not produce another saint...as[reading of sunil to linus is not everybody's cup of tea]
those who try to understand what i mean pl read sunil's block[ss i mean......theme behind new high/advance decline/vix.....broad market analysis]
EXPRESSION is another place...where learners lag............clear thought process ,if doubt.........read cv.....why there is only one boss?
SEE the zeal of uasish.........his charisma to bring together a group.......if u go through his post........u shall find around 29 article on various conception,......particularly his hate to lose.........so riskfree his trading.
Can u see the versality of saint?......so smoothly he can travel for oppurtunity from one time frame to another..........because of his ta depth and calmness.
................................
i know many of trade learner..........who often come and go....study a lot but clumsy in thought process.........go back to........saab a le lo'........or a tip....breakfast analyst....just like kitty party......discussion[ladies excuse me i dont like to hurt].......useless talk no progress..........max development for them to be a call giver.
in stead they should contact SGM/savant garde..........who analyse system give free call with radical judgement ,ofcourse implementable.
................
after u become pro.........just stop slippage from there..........basically to follow a checklist,follow ur system diligently.........dont be extra smart to self sabotage.
................
u must have some relaxation which is noway relate to trading to stop burn out of u.
some follow outing...........some help fellow trader......some does backtest........some reads book.
.............
but when they comeback again............all r extra committed.
.....................
have u seen some trader-scalper?
..........basically they r good at computer signal based trading,easily implement stop,stick to strong zone intraday......normally have zero opinion.mostly stick to specialist.
................................
short term trader...........primarily trade based on momentum,.5/1hr chart ......signal validity........10..15hr,study eod to find out candidate.....in market hr use predefined confirmation for entry /exit.
position trader.......he knows what he is doing.........experience taught him when to enter and exit. at dynamic support..........enter considering little fall is possible, or take high probability break out trade.........mostly they use eyeball/direct price study .
there is another neobuddist/intellect persuation...........currently developing in indian hype..........trading best on expected result/after result move.here they sought with news how price shall react ........prescribed continuity ,some time try to outguess market........mostly lose money.on the contrary.........safe buy like fm when market falls r safer method.
In this Forum many seniors ,who dont know till date,have indirectly guided me thru their post.The concept changed.
Mkt moves in a fashion of it's own,we do not try to predict it but follow it,say it went upto a certain price & the next candle / bar could not sustain & falls below the earlier few bars ,established gradient (the gradient eastablished by the earlier candels),that is a SMS by the Mkt,now we are to watch carefully whether this was a one off & see the next ongoing bar.
Now we can see the start of a temporary down move.
Remember Mkt ,in most of the time it will always make a second attempt towards the earlier Up move.We are now ready to take a Short Entry hence wait for Mkt to make a small upmove ,there with a Wide Eye we make a Short Entry ,though our eyes are wide we shrewdly calculate the Stop Price BEFORE initiating the Trade if within our Money Mgmt. discipline ,we simply pull the trigger ,no hesitation no 2nd thought & after the trade instantly put the Stop order,becoz Mkt has told us the LIMIT area of it's Upmove.
Plz bear with this Advisory type post.

Asish

N.B. We must be aware of the Resistance areas becoz,even in a Strong Upmove it may get stalled for few bars at the Resistance area,hence reaction to Resistance area may not always be a Down move but Respecting the Resistance area.
..................................
write it daily ...........before 9-55 until u can quote them in dream
............................
read saint/uasish/cv/traderji..........assimilate........u shall be a trader
I normally detest distributing ADVISE,as you are a staunch follower of Kolkata Meet i have a Moral responsibility.

Never do we trade Indicator / Osscillators / Pattern / etc.We should have this Mind-Set that we should never try or Dream of trading with Indicators.
Any Indicator even a conventional MACD is just good enough to Trade Mkt.
We trade Price & Price have a PERSPECTIVE ,that is the Bigger picture.If you cant see the bigger picture in one cursory glance to a chart then be assured you have to have more 100 hrs of Screen time,under your belt,otherwise use a Longer period MA to guide you about the bigger trend.
Here to determine the Perspective ,i have seen many old traders of my age use simple Pivot only to determine the Bigger picture ,there analogy if the Price is below pivot ,then bigger picture (-)ve & they will trade towards S1.


In many of my chart people may have seen a Money Management tool,if above that Stop then my Longs will be more if below my Shorts will be more,if below Stop i intend Long then normal qty,if above Stop i initiate Short Qty would be normal.That also helps me to see the Bigger picture the Perspective the Back drop.

Now 2nd stage is identifying the Trend ,how ? by Saint's method,HH HL or LH LL ,simple no damn indicator only Price action Nothing else.

We now have the Bigger picture we also have the Present Ongoing Trend in Wave forms.
If you cant see the Trend use Kolkata Meet to SHOW YOU THE SAINT'S PIVOT,the indicator shows you the Pivot points.

Now we are to initiate the Trade TOWARDS the Bigger picture in the Ongoing waves reversal zone.Say we intend to Long & Mkt moving Down wait & wait until you get HH & HL .Remember we do not trade whenever Close above Kolkata Meet but we wait to get our HH & HL .Then ONLY after you get the Ongoing Wave also Conforming TOWARDS the Bigger picture you may need a TOOL to trigger your Entry Point ,at that point even a conventional MACD if gives Buy signal we take it becoz the EDGE is already there ,the Chances of Win are more,hence any Tom Dick & Harry indicator osscillator pattern will Do,will suffice our need of a Trigger.
There you can use Kolkata Meet.

Remember even when we get HH / HL & the Bigger picture is for Short ,we do not LONG but Wait for the Short,to get the Edge in our favour ,both PERSPECTIVE & Ongoing Wave are to be in SAME direction.
 
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