India wins over NSG

[kkseal]

If being isolated & denied by the world at large from any type of Nuclear Technology we could demostrate our Weapons grade Hi-Tech Nuclear Capabilities to the world on their face,is'nt it prudent for them to acknowledge it now & allow a sit beside them ?
Only a Fool does the opposite.
Some World Organisation has declared to-day the 2nd Oct to be some type of World day.
Wait & watch everywhere there will be acknowledgement for India.
Treat us Equals ; only fools dread not to do that.

One more thing the world ought to acknowledge is that India has throughout acted as a responsible nuclear state. We haven't gone peddling around our nuclear technology like Pakistan & N Korea has. Acquiring N-weapons capability (with the aim of nuclear deterrence) is fully justified when you have a hostile state like Pakistan & a military superpower like China at your two borders.

 

[kkseal]

I remember distinctly at the time of signing the WTO treaty that India is succumbing to pressure was the slogan.

One Mr Kamalnath has worked fiercely with singular Focus and can we now see the difference,the developed countries BACKED OUT,the voice against them at WTO forum is rallied BY India.
When India speaks in that very forum WTO ;World listens,a paradigm change,the Trade ministers world over vouches & stands up for Mr Kamalnath.
We have arrived.

Very true Staying out of the biggest global economic forum would have only resulted in isolation. You have to be part of it & then try to change things from within; stand up for your rights & for those of developing nations as a bloc whenever necessary.

Incidentally, China had initially opted to stay out the WTO but later had to do a lot of maneuvering in order to get in. This is further proof of the correctness of the Indian stance at the time.

 

[pkjha30]

So now Condolizza Rice is coming to India on a visit planned long ago to sign 123 treaty with Pranab . India has asked for signing statement waiving off certain clauses related to fuel supply. Americans have rejected it saying it is not needed. With french deal under belt and Bush yet to sign the deal, Americans are doing their best to consummate the deal. However some clauses would put American Companies at disadvantages vis a vis others. Ultimately deal is more in commercial in nature then anything. Those who hold purse string should know how to wield the power of money. Don't know if this could be achieved by our dithering politicians fearful of Americans and Bureaucrats lusting over American lifestyles for their ward.

If Bush doesn't sign the Bill then Rice can not sign it here in India but I think that is unlikely. Indian Concerns are least of American botheration.

Lets see how it pans out .

pk

 

[Knil]

Latest news is that Ms Rice is not going to sign the deal. As per the TV report, there are still some hurdles in signing the deal. If the deal is not signed, how the Market will react on Monday is anybody's guess.

 

[pkjha30]

So finally Bush has signed 123 on Wednesday and Pranab will visit USA to ink the agreement with Cony Rice. Bush has assured of "Reliable" fuel supply. But perhaps no signing statement.

This brings to an end the beginning of 123 negotiation, IAEA and NSG matters.
Parliament will meet again what was supposed to be Monsoon session but it falls just before winter session. Left with egg on their faces would certainly rock the parliament and our MPs would have fun time. Surely very little business would be done except those of political nature. Inkling of which is seen in various cabinet decision.

The Nuke deal is a done matter. India is expected to build 40 reactors over 15-20 years and add over 40,000 MW . Immediate impact may be in fuel availability so that existing reactors would start functioning at optimum level ( currently at less then 50% ). In the long run deal would generate businesses not less than $150 bn in next decade.

With this deal we will sail in uncharted territory of big league of Nuke business hitherto kept closed for India.

pk

 

[kkseal]

I will be very happy if India becomes the pioneer in generating Nuclear Power from Thorium. This element is abundantly available in our country & dependence on others for supply of Uranium will no longer be necessary. However, a major portion of the necessary equipment & machinery will still have to be imported.

As a matter of fact the technology supposedly is already in existence (though i'm not sure if Thorium is actually being used anywhere as a fuel, yet). But here's what i found at a MIT forum (the poster is a research scholar) :-

Well... There actually IS an energy technology
currently in commercial use in both France and
Russia and under continuing research in the US
that can replace ALL OTHER SOURCES OF ENERGY
without exception. This technology was first
developed at Los Alamos Labs starting in 1946
(YES, 1946!)by Enrico Fermi. Its called a
Fast Neutron Spectrum Breeder Reactor or FBR.

Unlike current nuclear reactors, FBR's can ,and
do, extract 99.5% of the energy contained in
the uranium, or thorium fuel they use. This is
compared to a paltry 1% for current reactor
technology. Due to this extremely high
efficiency, there is little or no high level
waste produced. Both current stockpiles of this
waste and decommissioned nuclear weapons can and
are used as fuel feedstock in these reactors
ending disposal concerns for this waste.
Additionally, as these reactors operate at very
high temperatures (up to 1000C). Sufficient heat
is produced for the thermal chemical production
of hydrogen from water. This process is the
absolute most efficient way to produce hydrogen.
If humanities future is to include hydrogen fuel
then it must also include fast reactors.
Ironically, fast reactors produce so much energy
they negate the need for hydrogen. As for safety,
FBR's offer passive safety systems several
magnitudes greater then current reactors as the
primary coolants are for the most part at
atmospheric pressure and the cores employ
passive decay heat removal and dopler broadening
techniques. (look it up)

Just how much energy are we talking about?

A 2005 report out of The University of California
states that current known reserves of uranium
would be sufficient to provide a year 2000 US
standard of living to a planet of 10 billion
people for 2.8 billion years! As fast reactors
can breed and use thorium as well and there is
three times MORE thorium reserves the uranium,
humanity now has sufficient pollution free energy
supplies for 11.2 billion years!! In view of the
fact that the predicted remaining life of our sun
is only 5 billion years, I think we have enough
don't you?

And we are continuing to use fossil fuels why
exactly??

Oddly, I have been corresponding with scientists
at MIT who are currently doing research on this
very technology. Its a little ironic that one
group at MIT is doing studies on the very
technology that will make another groups research
obsolete.*

Don't take my word for this, "google" it yourselves. The information is freely available and there is a vast amount of it.
-----------------------------
*the 'other research' being referred to here is improved (2-3 times more efficient) IC engines

India too has it's own research programme on this technology; scientists believe India can develop this technology indigenously in the next 5 yrs. Till that happens we can perhaps set up FBRs using imported stuff (from Russia, France). But even for this to happen the nuclear deal was necessary.

Regards

 

[pkjha30]

President Bush Signs H.R. 7081, the United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Nonproliferation Enhancement Act

Statement by the President on the Occasion of Signing H.R. 7081


I am pleased today to sign into law the United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Nonproliferation Enhancement Act, which approves the U.S.-India 123 Agreement. The passage of this legislation by the Congress marks another major milestone in achieving the vision that Prime Minister Singh and I set forth on July 18, 2005, to transform the relationship between our two countries and to establish a strategic partnership. This Act will strengthen the relationship between the United States and India and deliver valuable benefits to both nations.

The legislation does not change the terms of the 123 Agreement as I submitted it to the Congress. That Agreement is consistent with the Atomic Energy Act and other elements of U.S. law. This legislation is important as it enables me to bring the 123 Agreement into force and to accept on behalf of the United States the obligations contained in the Agreement.

The Agreement grants India advance consent to reprocessing which will be brought into effect upon conclusion of arrangements and procedures for a dedicated reprocessing facility under IAEA safeguards.

In addition, the legislation does not change the fuel assurance commitments that the U.S. Government has made to the Government of India, as recorded in the 123 Agreement.

The passage of this legislation reflects the common view of my Administration and the Congress as to the value of nuclear cooperation and is in the interest of the United States and India.

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you for coming. Welcome to the White House. Today, I have the honor of signing legislation that builds on the growing ties between the world's two largest democracies, India and the United States. (Applause.) This legislation will enhance our cooperation in using nuclear energy to power our economies; it will help us work together even more closely to reduce the danger of nuclear proliferation across the world.

President George W. Bush signs H.R. 7081, The United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Nonproliferation Enhancement Act, Wednesday, Oct. 8, 2008, in the East Room at the White House.



This legislation represents more than three years of hard work by a lot of people. I appreciate the work of the Indian-American leaders from across the nation. (Applause.) I thank the members of the United States Congress for working hard on this piece of legislation. I'm especially grateful for the leadership provided by Speaker Nancy Pelosi, John Boehner, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, who worked hard to make sure this bill made it through both Houses at the very end of the session. (Laughter and applause.)

I thank the leaders of the Foreign Affairs Committees in the House and the Senate -- Senator Joe Biden; Dick Lugar; Chris Dodd, who is with us; as well as Representatives Howard Berman and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. I also welcome the members of Congress here on the stage who worked hard to get this legislation done. I appreciate so very much the contributions of two leaders who played an important role in crafting this legislation -- the late Henry Hyde and the late Tom Lantos. (Applause.)

Other members who've joined us -- John Warner, Senator from Virginia; Eliot Engel, Democrat, House Foreign Affairs committee member from New York; Congressman Joe Crowley from New York. (Applause.) Members of the administration who have joined us -- Mr. Vice President, thank you. I appreciate the hard work that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice did to bring this deal to fruition -- (applause) -- as well as Secretary Sam Bodman, at the Department of Energy.

I am so honored here that -- to have the Ambassador of India to the United States with us -- Ambassador Sen, thank you for joining us. (Applause.) And I appreciate very much the incredibly efficient work of our Ambassador, David Mulford, and his wife Jeannie -- thank you for being here. (Applause.) You didn't do so bad yourself, Ambassador -- (laughter.)

I thank the congressional staff who worked hard on this legislation. I congratulate you for the constructive work. I appreciate the supporters of the U.S.-India Nuclear Civil Agreement that are here today. All in all, welcome. This is a -- it's a big deal. (Applause.)

Even though the United States and India are separated by half the globe, we are natural partners as we head into the 21st century. Both our nations emerged from a colonial past to establish vibrant democracies. We have welcomed investment and private enterprise to become leaders in the global economy. We have stood against the dangers posed by extremists, who have carried out attacks in both our countries. We have demonstrated that we cherish liberty, honor human dignity, and respect the rule of law.

Despite these common interests and values, it was not long ago that relations between the United States and India were strained. In recent years, we've worked to transform our relationship into a strong strategic partnership. One area where we saw tremendous potential for cooperation is energy. As our economies have grown, our demands for energy have grown, as well. It's become increasingly clear that we need to generate that energy in ways that are safe and clean and secure.

One energy source that can generate large amounts of electricity with zero emissions of air pollution or greenhouse gases is nuclear power. So three years ago, Prime Minister Singh -- who I consider a dear friend -- and I resolved to work together on a landmark agreement paving the way for our nations to cooperate on nuclear power. By undertaking new cooperation on civil nuclear energy, India will be able to count on a reliable fuel supply for its civilian reactors, meet the energy demands of its people, and reduce its independence [sic] on fossil fuels.

For our part, the United States will gain access to a growing market for civilian nuclear technologies and materials, that will help American businesses create more jobs for our people here at home.

Our agreement will also strengthen global nonproliferation efforts. India has committed to operate its civil nuclear energy program under the safeguards of the International Atomic Energy Agency and other international guidelines. India will continue to build on its strong record of responsibility in operating its nuclear facilities. And India and the United States will cooperate more closely to keep the world's most dangerous weapons out of the hands of extremists and terrorists.

The bill I sign today approves the 123 agreement I submitted to Congress -- and establishes the legal framework for that agreement to come into effect. The bill makes clear that our agreement with India is consistent with the Atomic Energy Act and other elements of U.S. law. By passing this legislation, my administration and Congress demonstrate our common view that nuclear cooperation is in the interest of both the United States and India.

The legislation makes no changes to the terms of the 123 agreement I submitted to Congress. It enables me to bring that agreement into force and to accept on behalf of the United States all the obligations that are part of the agreement. The legislation does not change the fuel assurance commitments that the United States government has made to the government of India, as recorded in the 123 agreement. The agreement also grants India "advance consent to reprocessing" -- which will be brought into effect upon the conclusion of arrangements and procedures for a dedicated reprocessing facility under IAEA safeguards.

This agreement sends a signal to the world: Nations that follow the path of democracy and responsible behavior will find a friend in the United States of America. (Applause.) The American people are proud of our strong relationship with India. And I am confident that the friendship between our two nations will grow even closer in the years ahead.

Laura and I send our best wishes to the hundreds of millions of people in India and around the world who will begin celebrating the ancient festival of Diwali later this month. (Applause.) As we offer our prayers for a happy new year, we can be thankful that the relationship between the United States and India has never been more vibrant and more hopeful.

And it's now my honor to sign the United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Nonproliferation Enhancement Act. (Applause.)

(The bill is signed.) (Applause.)

END 2:34 P.M. EDT

Well at least US President now remembers ancient festival of Diwali

pk

 

[pkjha30]

As a matter of fact the technology supposedly is already in existence (though i'm not sure if Thorium is actually being used anywhere as a fuel, yet). But here's what i found at a MIT forum (the poster is a research scholar) :-



India too has it's own research programme on this technology; scientists believe India can develop this technology indigenously in the next 5 yrs. Till that happens we can perhaps set up FBRs using imported stuff (from Russia, France). But even for this to happen the nuclear deal was necessary.

Regards

Hi Kalyan

In India, both Kakrapar-1 and -2 units are loaded with 500 kg of thorium fuel in order to improve their operation when newly-started. Kakrapar-1 was the first reactor in the world to use thorium, rather than depleted uranium, to achieve power flattening across the reactor core. In 1995, Kakrapar-1 achieved about 300 days of full power operation and Kakrapar-2 about 100 days utilising thorium fuel. The use of thorium-based fuel was planned in Kaiga-1 and -2 and Rajasthan-3 and -4 (Rawatbhata) reactors.

With about six times more thorium than uranium, India has made utilisation of thorium for large-scale energy production a major goal in its nuclear power program, utilising a three-stage concept:

* Pressurised Heavy Water Reactors (PHWRs, elsewhere known as CANDUs) fuelled by natural uranium, plus light water reactors, produce plutonium.
* Fast Breeder Reactors (FBRs) use this plutonium-based fuel to breed U-233 from thorium. The blanket around the core will have uranium as well as thorium, so that further plutonium (ideally high-fissile Pu) is produced as well as the U-233. Then
* Advanced Heavy Water Reactors burn the U-233 and this plutonium with thorium, getting about 75% of their power from the thorium.

The used fuel will then be reprocessed to recover fissile materials for recycling.

This Indian program has moved from aiming to be sustained simply with thorium to one "driven" with the addition of further fissile uranium and plutonium, to give greater efficiency.

Another option for the third stage, while continuing with the PHWR and FBR programs, is the subcritical Accelerator-Driven Systems (ADS)

India has thorium reserves to the tune of 2.25 lakh tonnes which have an electricity potential of 1.55 lakh Giga Watt Year
India has fourth largest reserve of Thorium. the three stage concept give India a little advantage over other countries as they have not much researched in Thorium cycle as yet. Prototype Fast Breeder reactor (PFBR) is coming up at kalpakkam near Chennai in IGCAR complex. You can see it on Google Earth as well. PFBR and FTBR would remain outside IAEA purview and used for production of weapons grade uranium and plutonium, if need be. This will ultimately lead to indigenous development of Thorium based fuel cycle Reactor and we may not have to look to other countries for nuclear fuel.

If our politician can play it prudently, our Scientists can do it in less number of years. 123 agreement seeks to cap this research activity by providing access to Nuclear businesses. This was same when we developed our Super computer USA gave access to Cray XMP. That retarded research the new areas.Its one of the negatives.

pk

 

[kkseal]

Well at least US President now remembers ancient festival of Diwali

pk

Hope the technology they provide (& we foolishly buy) isn't as 'ancient'. We must be very careful what we spend our money on Not become dumping ground for obsolete tech of the West. Above all indigenous development must not be compromised because of this.

... If our politician can play it prudently, our Scientists can do it in less number of years. 123 agreement seeks to cap this research activity by providing access to Nuclear businesses. This was same when we developed our Super computer USA gave access to Cray XMP. That retarded research the new areas.Its one of the negatives.

Exactly. And this what i fear. The fools will get so carried away by their 'achievement' that indigenous development will be put on the back burner. Whereas the fact of the matter is, though necessary, this isn't a true 'achievement' (diplomatic at best) at all It's our compulsion. Moreover, such treaties will always have their binding clauses (whether direct or indirect). So the ultimate aim should be to make it redundant (through development of indigenous capabilities) so that we are a free bird again.

Thanks for the info on India's nuclear research programme.

Regards

 

[pkjha30]

Finally Pranab Mukherjee and Condy Rice signed 123 Nuclear Cooperation Deal on Friday October 10th 2008

Interesting thing I noticed is after usual handshakes and signing of deal, Condolizza Rice again held hand of Pranab as two very close friends would do after they achieve something good.Expression of gratitude on her face was so obvious as if Bush and Rice had staked their life to it. They might have sealed their names in the annals of History just as Kissinger did by visiting China.

India gets advance reprocessing consent and fuel supply assurance though Pranab did not commit on preferential treatment to USA based companies.

pk