stop loss order strangely executed

#1
Hey all i have been facing this issue with my orders last few days...would like your feedback..


I put a stop loss limit order to sell a futures stock with trigger price 204.60 and price 204.60 when the LTP was 206 then later when the stock made a low of 204.75 still my order got executed..how is this possible ?Only if it falls below 204.60 it should get triggered..but many trades of mine have been (i think falsely executed) this way last few days....I have been trading and executing since years so this is quite surprising...


i have attached screenshot with tick list (2 mins before and after price was never touched to 204.60.My order executed at 2:29.58 low is 204.75 i have highlighted in tick list)

Please help this is just one example....
 

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Last edited:

VJAY

Well-Known Member
#2
Hey all i have been facing this issue with my orders last few days...would like your feedback..


I put a stop loss limit order to sell a futures stock with trigger price 204.60 and price 204.60 when the LTP was 206 then later when the stock made a low of 204.75 still my order got executed..how is this possible ?Only if it falls below 204.60 it should get triggered..but many trades of mine have been (i think falsely executed) this way last few days....I have been trading and executing since years so this is quite surprising...


i have attached screenshot with tick list (2 mins before and after price was never touched to 204.60.My order executed at 2:29.58 low is 204.75 i have highlighted in tick list)

Please help this is just one example....
This thing happens everybody....reason is trigger rate came but chart/data not showing it...if you have doubt then you can verify your trades on NSE site
 

Riskyman

Well-Known Member
#3
Hey all i have been facing this issue with my orders last few days...would like your feedback..

I put a stop loss limit order to sell a futures stock with trigger price 204.60 and price 204.60 when the LTP was 206 then later when the stock made a low of 204.75 still my order got executed..how is this possible ?Only if it falls below 204.60 it should get triggered..but many trades of mine have been (i think falsely executed) this way last few days....I have been trading and executing since years so this is quite surprising...

i have attached screenshot with tick list (2 mins before and after price was never touched to 204.60.My order executed at 2:29.58 low is 204.75 i have highlighted in tick list)

Please help this is just one example....
Firstly, I dont think trigger price and limit price can be the same.
Secondly, It is not the price alone that triggers your SL. Let me explain this

Say you put SL limit sell order. For Example: Trigger price is 204.75 and Limit price is 204.60. Lets assume that last traded price is 206. Now you may be thinking that if last traded price comes to 204.75 then your order will get triggered. Wrong.
LTP has nothing to do with triggering stops. Its the bid/ask

If the highest bid is equal to or lower than your trigger price then the sell order will get executed. Similarly, if its a SL buy order, then if the lowest ask is higher or equal to your trigger then the order will get executed.

Bid price Ask price

205.00 | 205.20
204.95 | 205.25
204.90 | 205.30
204.85 | 205.35
204.80 | 205.40

As you can see from above that the first highest bid is 205. When the first highest bid comes to 204.75 then the order is triggered and a sell is executed at a price closest to the limit price i.e 204.60.

The last traded price is irrelevant for stop loss orders. so the last traded price may still be 206. Its only when your order gets executed at 204.6 then the LTP changes. Sometimes, these changes are not reflected in the system as vijay bro mentioned.
 
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TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#4
Secondly, It is not the price alone that triggers your SL. Let me explain this

Say you put SL limit sell order. For Example: Trigger price is 204.75 and Limit price is 204.60. Lets assume that last traded price is 206. Now you may be thinking that if last traded price comes to 204.75 then your order will get triggered. Wrong.
LTP has nothing to do with triggering stops. Its the bid/ask
Incorrect for NSE stocks. Executed trades trigger orders and not B/A. See here
Sell order - A sell order in the Stop Loss book gets triggered when the last traded price in the normal market reaches or falls below the trigger price of the order.
Buy order - A buy order in the Stop Loss book gets triggered when the last traded price in the normal market reaches or exceeds the trigger price of the order.
 

Riskyman

Well-Known Member
#5
Incorrect for NSE stocks. Executed trades trigger orders and not B/A. See here
Im aware of that. But does it happen really? :p
Trade Bank Nifty options and you will know why im saying what Im saying.
Exchange also says that every tick is recorded. Really?

Trade illiquid stocks and you will know better. Several times Ive been stopped even though LTP was as far away as 50 paise and the stops trigger when the bid/ask prices fell to trigger price setting the orders in motion. Wrote to the Exchange about it. No response :(

If what you/exchange saying is right then this gentleman who is posting his problem here.. his price of 204.60 should have been recorded in the ticks. No?:p
 
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TraderRavi

low risk profile
#6
from TB link

Stop-Loss Book
Stop Loss orders are stored in this book till the trigger price specified in the order is reached or surpassed. When the trigger price is reached or surpassed, the order is released in the Regular lot book.
The stop loss condition is met under the following circumstances:
Sell order - A sell order in the Stop Loss book gets triggered when the last traded price in the normal market reaches or falls below the trigger price of the order.
Buy order - A buy order in the Stop Loss book gets triggered when the last traded price in the normal market reaches or exceeds the trigger price of the order.
 

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#7
Im aware of that. But does it happen really? :p
Trade Bank Nifty options and you will know why im saying what Im saying.
Exchange also says that every tick is recorded. Really?

Trade illiquid stocks and you will know better. Several times Ive been stopped even though LTP was as far away as 50 paise and the stops trigger when the bid/ask prices fell to trigger price setting the orders in motion. Wrote to the Exchange about it. No response :(

If what you/exchange saying is right then this gentleman who is posting his problem here.. his price of 204.60 should have been recorded in the ticks. No?:p
There is no reason why NSE will not execute as stated. Its easy to start believing in conspiracy theories man .. We dont get all ticks in our system obviously, but they probably save all data ( why wouldnt they ? )

I have seen B/A fall below my stop without LTP change and my stop held. Anyway, that was lucky, most of the time we cannot rely on LTP/BA that we see on terminal, assume its only a sample of what is executed.

Yes, we all get this. I got ticked into a stock yesterday without seeing it in chart. We only see sampled data and not perfect OHLC .. Its makes sense
 

Riskyman

Well-Known Member
#8
There is no reason why NSE will not execute as stated. Its easy to start believing in conspiracy theories man .. We dont get all ticks in our system obviously, but they probably save all data ( why wouldnt they ? )

I have seen B/A fall below my stop without LTP change and my stop held. Anyway, that was lucky, most of the time we cannot rely on LTP/BA that we see on terminal, assume its only a sample of what is executed.

Yes, we all get this. I got ticked into a stock yesterday without seeing it in chart. We only see sampled data and not perfect OHLC .. Its makes sense
This is hardly any conspiracy theory. This is how we see it working which is why I said pls trade BN options to get a first hand experience.
I dont deny what they may have as a policy or as a framework. But those software systems are very dynamic. You would have noticed what I am talking about on very high volatility days that the bid/ask just keep moving so fast.

I could be totally wrong here in terms of what is defined as a protocol by NSE but my experience doesnt say that. For many years i was under the same impression about LTP being the end all of matters unless I noticed on several occasions that ltp didnt matter.
If what you/nse say is right then it means that we are not getting a real time picture of the LTP on our terminals.

Anyways im not a software guy. I dont get this shit. I only speak from my experience:)
 

KAL.YUG

Well-Known Member
#9
There is no reason why NSE will not execute as stated. Its easy to start believing in conspiracy theories man .. We dont get all ticks in our system obviously, but they probably save all data ( why wouldnt they ? )

I have seen B/A fall below my stop without LTP change and my stop held. Anyway, that was lucky, most of the time we cannot rely on LTP/BA that we see on terminal, assume its only a sample of what is executed.

Yes, we all get this. I got ticked into a stock yesterday without seeing it in chart. We only see sampled data and not perfect OHLC .. Its makes sense


This has happened with me few times in BNF. The trigger price gets triggered but the SL or trade order does not get executed/ I have to chase the price to get out of a position.
 

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#10
This is hardly any conspiracy theory. This is how we see it working which is why I said pls trade BN options to get a first hand experience.
I dont deny what they may have as a policy or as a framework. But those software systems are very dynamic. You would have noticed what I am talking about on very high volatility days that the bid/ask just keep moving so fast.

I could be totally wrong here in terms of what is defined as a protocol by NSE but my experience doesnt say that. For many years i was under the same impression about LTP being the end all of matters unless I noticed on several occasions that ltp didnt matter.
If what you/nse say is right then it means that we are not getting a real time picture of the LTP on our terminals.

Anyways im not a software guy. I dont get this shit. I only speak from my experienc
I dont trade options so cannot say, but NSE page for Equity derivatives says same.
E.g. If for stop loss buy order, the trigger is 93.00, the limit price is 95.00 and the market (last traded) price is 90.00, then this order is released into the system once the market price reaches or exceeds 93.00. This order is added to the regular lot book with time of triggering as the time stamp, as a limit order of 95.00
High volatility and high liquidity is exactly the time when we certainly cannot comprehend live streaming data. There would be so many trades, even if we could have a real tick stream with every execution there is no way we will be able to understand it in real time.
Yes, we are not getting all ltps on our terminals, that is obvious. We get a sample, a as-of-now price and that will also lag a tiny bit. Even if we got all ltps, we wont be able to see it as price would change so quickly. But the sample and backfill data is good enough for charts, tiny changes in extremes dont matter much to me.

No software guy would get it other than those who have direct experience with NSE order system.
One possibility is that the orders are held by broker for complex orders/bracket orders/etc - when its provided as a feature. Perhaps IB may have such orders. But once order goes to exchange then execution should be same.

Anyway, these are small fine print things that probably matter only to very low TFs and HFTs and we cannot control it ..
 

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