Discussion on section 44AD of IT Act

NJ23

Well-Known Member
#32
Ethan I think you misunderstand the TO concept. The turnover is not the Trade Price * Contract Size. It's the amount you receive or pay at EOD i.e MTM settlement. You make 2000 on 1 contract in a day then the turnover is 2000. I think the misconceptions are created because of the word turnover. TO in other businesses is sales proceeds/revenue i.e their income. In trading our revenue is daily MTM i.e settlement profit/loss and not TP*Size.
 
#33
Re: General Trading Chat

From the Net :

There is confusion on to what should be the turnover of intra-day trading transaction .Should the value of purchase or sale or only difference between the purchase and sale be taken for computing turnover for the purpose of tax audit under Section 44AB of the IT Act?

The issue had come up in the case of Babulal Enterprise v ACIT before the Mumbai bench of ITAT [IT Appeal No. 6031 (Mum.) of 1996, dated 12 February 1997]. It was held where the actual delivery was not taken and the difference in price was settled on the basis of contract note,the turnover cannot include the value of those transactions. Another decision of the Mumbai Tribunal expressing similar views was in the case of Growmore Exports v ACIT [78ITD 95]. Accordingly, the aggregate of both positive and negative differences is to be considered as turnover for determining liability to audit under Section 44AB.
Thanks of the two cases. Is there any case of high court or supreme court ruling. These both are from appellate tribunal. If anyone is aware, kindly share
 

lemondew

Well-Known Member
#34
Sharing I understand with examples correct me if I am wrong. I quote the matter from websites. My conclusion is delivery trading gives maximum turnover if sold less than a year.


For FO matter used for calculation
turnover is:
The total of positive and negative, or favourable and unfavourable differences shall be taken as turnover;
Premium received on sale of options is to be included in turnover;
In respect of any reverse trades entered, the difference thereon shall also form part of the turnover

source:
http://tradingqna.com/3831/futures-&-option-turnover-calculation-for-taxation
http://trak.in/tags/business/2012/07/09/tax-return-filing-futures-options-fo-trades/

a) So for futures trading
Turnover = absolute sum of profits + loss
eg
trade 1 profit 5000
trade 2 loss 5000
turnover = 10000

b) options trading
Turnover = Premium received on sale of options
Sold nifty 8000 PE at 20 * 50 qty turnover = 1000

c) For equity intraday
Turnover = same futures

d) For equity delivery
Turnover = gross sale value
eg sold 100 hdfc @1000 turnover = 100,000
source : http://taxguru.in/income-tax/how-to...audit-us-44ab-of-the-income-tax-act-1961.html
 

lemondew

Well-Known Member
#35
From above I feel buying and selling eqities in less than 1 year will result in audit. This would be very difficult for investor if they go wrong and want to get out
 
Last edited:

ethan hunt

Well-Known Member
#36
Ethan I think you misunderstand the TO concept. The turnover is not the Trade Price * Contract Size. It's the amount you receive or pay at EOD i.e MTM settlement. You make 2000 on 1 contract in a day then the turnover is 2000. I think the misconceptions are created because of the word turnover. TO in other businesses is sales proceeds/revenue i.e their income. In trading our revenue is daily MTM i.e settlement profit/loss and not TP*Size.
For options you have to consider the premium received for T.O.
So if you trade (500 Buy & 500 Sell) then 500 lots BNF @ Rs.400 = 2 Lacs added to T.O. in addition to P+L figures. :mad:
 

NJ23

Well-Known Member
#37
For options you have to consider the premium received for T.O.
So if you trade (500 Buy & 500 Sell) then 500 lots BNF @ Rs.400 = 2 Lacs added to T.O. in addition to P+L figures. :mad:
:eek: Oops! Misread it!
 

columbus

Well-Known Member
#38
Everyday I get a confirmatory SMS from NSE about my trades.As far as Options are
concerned ,the figure appears OK ,but in case of Futures the figure appears ASTRONOMICAL.
The message reads somewhat like this:

"...............Your total traded value for 03-FEB-2015 in F&O................................"

In case of Options, it is PREMIUM*LOTS
In case of Futures, it is Nifty * lots.

But the word TURNOVER does not appear in the message.
 
#39
Sharing I understand with examples correct me if I am wrong. I quote the matter from websites. My conclusion is delivery trading gives maximum turnover if sold less than a year.


For FO matter used for calculation
turnover is:
The total of positive and negative, or favourable and unfavourable differences shall be taken as turnover;
Premium received on sale of options is to be included in turnover;
In respect of any reverse trades entered, the difference thereon shall also form part of the turnover

source:
http://tradingqna.com/3831/futures-&-option-turnover-calculation-for-taxation
http://trak.in/tags/business/2012/07/09/tax-return-filing-futures-options-fo-trades/

a) So for futures trading
Turnover = absolute sum of profits + loss
eg
trade 1 profit 5000
trade 2 loss 5000
turnover = 10000

b) options trading
Turnover = Premium received on sale of options
Sold nifty 8000 PE at 20 * 50 qty turnover = 1000

c) For equity intraday
Turnover = same futures

d) For equity delivery
Turnover = gross sale value
eg sold 100 hdfc @1000 turnover = 100,000
source : http://taxguru.in/income-tax/how-to...audit-us-44ab-of-the-income-tax-act-1961.html
This appears correct.

For equity trades intraday (which are squared off intraday) the profit/loss becomes speculative profits/loss as it does not result in delivery of shares and treated separately. If the assessee maintains that his business is trading in shares and has major portion of his earnings from trading then the profit/loss will be classified as business income and taxed accordingly.But assessee has to make that choice once and stick to it in future.

My observations are based on my experience of filing the returns through my CA and what my CA has been telling me . I am not a practicing CA and my views may be incorrect.

Smart_trade
 

pakatil

Well-Known Member
#40
CAs together with their Institute are not sure. IT Dept is not sure. Lots of contradictory judgements from different courts and tribunals. And lots of pending cases in courts.

All this means what ?. That it is a total mess that is unsolvable. It is just a whipping tool in hands of Administrators to harass hapless Traders.

All this dialogues & discussions serve no purpose whatsoever.

Just grit your teeth and suffer. :D
 

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