Sridhar's Trading Dairy

sridhga

Well-Known Member
BEL is just above its 52 week low. It is trading with low volumes in the last 2 days. On some online forum, I read an opinion of a person who identified this phenomenon as "Sellers un-willing to sell at this price and hence volumes being lower." Let us analyse this statement. If sellers are unwilling to sell at that price, and buyers are desperate, then the price should shoot up. This is not happening. Maybe, it will happen with a time lag.

Now, let us look at this in another way. BEL has so far been supported by value buyers and that value buying is drying up because, eventually, such buyers who spotted this share run out of the funds allocated for this share. (As the share keeps falling.) Some proof of truth in this statement can be drawn from the following facts:
1. BEL, when it moves up, moves in just 1 or 2 minute spurts with volumes exceeding 100K in less than a minute. (Large buyers pumping in money and maybe some stoplosses hit)
2. Whenever Share price increases, Futures OI decreases and whenever share price decreases, futures OI increases. This shows short term traders are betting more on the price going down.
3. BEL regularly has about 50% deliverables. However on the days of price decrease, the deliverable % goes down. This was noticed in the last two days when price decreased.
So the conclusion based on the above observations is that only long term value investors spot this share and pump money into it. If such investors run out of their allocated funds for this share, then the price falls.
Why does it fall? Because many traders and some investors who must be offloading do not seem to have good opinion of the prospects atleast for near term. Actually, this is a very good company. But short term prospects are not great looking at the current political winds. Current year order books may not be as exciting as those of last year.
So what is likely to happen? It could test previous 52 week low of 101.30. Then it could test the psychological point of Rs.100. Then it could go down all the way to 90 or 80. Why those numbers? Okay 52 week high was at 193. It is very common for 52 week low for mid size and small size companies to be 1/3 of their 52 week high. That gives a bottom range of 60~70. But ride there may not be smooth. Big players who pumped in money at 110 will reallocate more funds at those lower prices. Alternately, others may off load due to frustration or for the reasons of their regular reporting requirements of NAV of their funds.

I may be right or wrong. It is easy to comment early in the morning before the markets open. More so, when the share moved in my direction in the last two days. All of us are smart when the prices move in our direction for some time. But trading is a probability game. We do not know what happens next. I am certainly not more intelligent than any of you here are. I am also not more intelligent than the other person who posted on the other forum. Let us see how it goes from here.
 
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sridhga

Well-Known Member
Interesting perspective on the OTM call options.

What’s the stop that you are having for your short position? Even a stop of 2-3 rs is pretty steep for me to digest and that’s why I stick to options only.


Cheers
AK

Hi,

Since, I am going through busy tax season, I cannot observe the stock continuously. So this time I just bought put options in BEL and call options in Elxsi.
 
BEL is just above its 52 week low. It is trading with low volumes in the last 2 days. On some online forum, I read an opinion of a person who identified this phenomenon as "Sellers un-willing to sell at this price and hence volumes being lower." Let us analyse this statement. If sellers are unwilling to sell at that price, and buyers are desperate, then the price should shoot up. This is not happening. Maybe it will happen with a time lag.

Now, let us look at this in another way. BEL has so far been supported by value buyers and that value buying is drying up because eventually such buyers who spotted this share run out of the funds allocated for this share. (As the share keeps falling.) Some proof of truth in this statement can be drawn from the following facts:
1. BEL, when it moves up, moves in just 1 or 2 minute spurts with volumes exceeding 100K in less than a minute. (Large buyers pumping in money and maybe some stoplosses hit)
2. Whenever Share price increases, Futures OI decreases and whenever share price decreases, futures OI increases. This shows short term traders are betting more on the price going down.
3. BEL regularly has about 50% deliverables. However on the days of price decrease, the deliverable % goes down. This was noticed in the last two days when price decreased.
So the conclusion based on the above observations is that only long term value investors spot this share and pump money into it. If such investors run out of their allocated funds for this share, then the price falls.
Why does it fall? Because many traders and some investors who must be offloading do not seem to have good opinion of the prospects atleast for near term. Actually, this is a very good company. But short term prospects are not great looking at the current political winds. Current year order books may not be as exciting as those of last year.
So what is likely to happen? It could test previous 52 week low of 101.30. Then it could test the psychological point of Rs.100. Then it could go down all the way to 90 or 80. Why those numbers? Okay 52 week high was at 193. It is very common for 52 week low for mid size and small size companies to be 1/3 of their 52 week high. That gives a bottom range of 60~70. But ride there may not be smooth. Big players who pumped in money at 110 will reallocate more funds at those lower prices. Alternately, others may off load due to frustration or for the reasons of their regular reporting requirements of NAV of their funds.

I may be right or wrong. It is easy to comment early in the morning before the markets open. More so, when the share moved in my direction in the last two days. All of us are smart when the prices move in our direction for some time. But trading is a probability game. We do not know what happens next. I am certainly not more intelligent than any of you here are. I am also not more intelligent than the other person who posted on the other forum. Let us see how it goes from here.
Sridhar sir, a basic question - isn’t BEL a large cap? It’s market cap is 25K Cr.



Cheers
AK
 

sridhga

Well-Known Member
Sridhar sir, a basic question - isn’t BEL a large cap? It’s market cap is 25K Cr.



Cheers
AK

Maybe you are right. I am broadly looking at this as compared to other PSU stocks like Coal India, ONGC etc. Moreover, it is not a part of Nifty 50. I do not have a strong definition on Mid cap and large cap.


Assume it is a large cap. Does this assumption change any of our views? Please let me know your view point as well. This forum is for knowledge sharing. You are free to post on this thread.
 

sridhga

Well-Known Member
Coal India directly and indirectly hires lakhs of workers in Central and Eastern Indian states. Moreover its product impacts continous electricity supply. ONGC is in a product whose prices can impact common man. BEL is not such an election-sensitive company. So defence orders can wait for post 2019 elections.

Just another point of view as to why the share price may go down. If you have any counter views please do me a favour by posting them here. Do not let me get blinded by my biases.
 
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Sridhar sir, a basic question - isn’t BEL a large cap? It’s market cap is 25K Cr.



Cheers
AK

Maybe you are right. I am broadly looking at this as compared to other PSU stocks like Coal India, ONGC etc. Moreover, it is not a part of Nifty 50. I do not have a strong definition on Mid cap and large cap.


Assume it is a large cap. Does this assumption change any of our views? Please let me know your view point as well. This forum is for knowledge sharing. You are free to post on this thread.
My assumption is that the large caps come with additional stability. The max monthly SD for BEL for the last 24 months is 16% and the mean SD is just 7%.

This gives me a cushion to comfortably play with the options to hedge my long-term BEL portfolio.


Cheers
AK
 

sridhga

Well-Known Member
SD is Standard Deviation?

Interestingly, you are applying probability concepts to trading. Can you please detail your trading style for my understanding?
 

sridhga

Well-Known Member
My assumption is that the large caps come with additional stability. The max monthly SD for BEL for the last 24 months is 16% and the mean SD is just 7%.

This gives me a cushion to comfortably play with the options to hedge my long-term BEL portfolio.


Cheers
AK

Maybe you are right on stability part. As I can see large funds pumping money into BEL regularly. Moreover with Government, India ETF 22 holding together about 67~68% and also insurance companies holding for long term gives strong stability for this stock. But let us look at this in another way. This narrow supply for trading makes it sensitive to wild moves. Of course those wild moves could be controlled by large players.

Contrast this with widely held companies where there are more hands to bring in equilibrium. (Eg: Infosys, ITC). Are not these types of companies more stable?

Interesting thoughts. Ideas are welcome.
 
SD is Standard Deviation?

Interestingly, you are applying probability concepts to trading. Can you please detail your trading style for my understanding?
Yes. I may not be addressing it as per the defined mathematical definition, but I take the monthly deviation for the last 24 months to arrive at the probable move that BEL can make. This is without considering the result days, election/global news days - these can’t be factored in.

These can portray a good picture for the last two weeks in a expiry.


Cheers
AK
 
My assumption is that the large caps come with additional stability. The max monthly SD for BEL for the last 24 months is 16% and the mean SD is just 7%.

This gives me a cushion to comfortably play with the options to hedge my long-term BEL portfolio.


Cheers
AK

Maybe you are right on stability part. As I can see large funds pumping money into BEL regularly. Moreover with Government, India ETF 22 holding together about 67~68% and also insurance companies holding for long term gives strong stability for this stock. But let us look at this in another way. This narrow supply for trading makes it sensitive to wild moves. Of course those wild moves could be controlled by large players.

Contrast this with widely held companies where there are more hands to bring in equilibrium. (Eg: Infosys, ITC). Are not these types of companies more stable?

Interesting thoughts. Ideas are welcome.
Yes. Agreed to a certain extent.

I used to consider Infy as a serious contender for this, but yesterday’s 5% fall was confusing. No news, result is still a week away. May be someone knew something earlier.


Cheers
AK
 

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