"operator"

anuragmunjal

Well-Known Member
#3
Operators are always there....:D
otherwise who will move the market.

But yes, they are not as fierce as they are in stock market, they are not the market movers as the scrips traded are international.
what if this 'operator' has accounts in the international mkts.. where he can hedge his positions and also the currency?
 

ashu1234

Well-Known Member
#4
Unlike stocks, commodities traded on MCX, which are traded internationally, are based on physical demand and supply. And to manipulate anything in any market operator must have fair control over the supply/demand in short run, and since there are so many players spread over the world that its rare but not impossible to achieve this feat. Even oil cartels like OPEC are unable to manipulate price. There is so much money and players involved that I think any kind of manipulation if there can not go unnoticed.

But instances of manipulation are there, like in natural gas, where US govt has recently taken steps to curb that, sort of same thing happened in Gold recently, which I think was not a manipulation but simple game of demand and supply. People who hedge positions in currency here are big arbitragers who deal in comex-mcx arbitraging but they are definitely not operators.

So running a scrip is comparatively easier, logical and profitable than daring to move international commodities.
 

anuragmunjal

Well-Known Member
#5
Unlike stocks, commodities traded on MCX, which are traded internationally, are based on physical demand and supply. And to manipulate anything in any market operator must have fair control over the supply/demand in short run, and since there are so many players spread over the world that its rare but not impossible to achieve this feat. Even oil cartels like OPEC are unable to manipulate price. There is so much money and players involved that I think any kind of manipulation if there can not go unnoticed.

But instances of manipulation are there, like in natural gas, where US govt has recently taken steps to curb that, sort of same thing happened in Gold recently, which I think was not a manipulation but simple game of demand and supply. People who hedge positions in currency here are big arbitragers who deal in comex-mcx arbitraging but they are definitely not operators.

So running a scrip is comparatively easier, logical and profitable than daring to move international commodities.
definitly it is difficult to manipulate international prices of commodities..but there have been instances of 'operators' manipulating prices in indian exchanges in the short term which is evident by the badla fluctuation of gold, silver, crude etc.

regards
 

anuragmunjal

Well-Known Member
#7
Hi, could you please elaborate badla fluctuation.
there have been numerous such instances in the past few years..
taking a hypothetical example, lets say the price of silver is quoting 200 rs above the international price, if u do the exact calculation.. on many occasions it has been seen that the price starts quoting 400-500 rs below the international prices in a day or two or vice versa. this is a clear case of manipulation by local operators.

if u see the mcx delivery chart of silver since inception, in the very first year, one month stands out with a delivery of few hundred crores. this may be one such month.

regards
 

ashu1234

Well-Known Member
#8
In my knowledge, once the scrips gets into last five day delivery period its movement disconnects with the international prices, and in my opinion reason being the calculation process of MCX during the marking in process of buyers and sellers.

One more thing, (not related to badla) many times there is rupee movement in international market after 5 p.m and have seen many people taking evening close as constant which conflicts with real time discoveries.

All in all its all the rupee factor which is making this slippages sometimes, but here in Mumbai there are many arbitraging firms who do comex-mcx arbitrage so if any deviation happens they are the first guys to jump in.

Lets post such deviation if it arise, I would like to see it.
 

anuragmunjal

Well-Known Member
#9
In my knowledge, once the scrips gets into last five day delivery period its movement disconnects with the international prices, and in my opinion reason being the calculation process of MCX during the marking in process of buyers and sellers.

One more thing, (not related to badla) many times there is rupee movement in international market after 5 p.m and have seen many people taking evening close as constant which conflicts with real time discoveries.

All in all its all the rupee factor which is making this slippages sometimes, but here in Mumbai there are many arbitraging firms who do comex-mcx arbitrage so if any deviation happens they are the first guys to jump in.

Lets post such deviation if it arise, I would like to see it.
u get to see these deviations even before the delivery date and even after factoring in usd/inr price. this does not happen every month but every once in a while. the purpose is to trap these same arbitraguers that u are speaking of.
I do not think these arbitraguers have made any decent money in the past 3-4 years, due to this.. the biggest example being jaypee capital, who was the biggest arbitraguer at one point in time.

regards
 

bunny

Well-Known Member
#10
If the underlying can be manipulated, the derivative is much prone to manipulate because big money will build position in futures just before they expect the big move.

However, if they cannot manipulate the underlying, its is difficult to practice the same practice in derivatives.
 

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