Best way of day trading - 2652 theory of trading

[dhiraj11378]

Double quantrity but normal target of 0.5%.

Sachin

HDFC Fut - SL triggered @ 1404 for Buy Order @ 1418.2 .. Missed the target 1425.4 by just 1.5 Rs . Day high was 1423.7 ..

Will try with double the quantity on monday.. One question is .. for monday's trade , the profit target wud be 0.5% or 0.8% (enhanced target) ?

sachin , santosh please note
it was a loss day on sat in hdfc so on monday he should double the quantity and enhance profit to 0.8 percent , hopefully u will have profit in ur first trade if not in first trade then do not panic go in for next trade , if ur keeping double same quantity then againg enhance the target to 1 percent ( FOR MONDAYS SECOND TRADE IF FIRST IS A LOST AGAIN ON MONDAY ) . if again ur doubling the quantity then keep 0.8 percent profit for the the second trade also .
for this method u must have sufficient amount in ur account for trading .
this is one of the most important point for trading with this method .

dhiraj

 

[VJAY]

Dear sunil,
no have cash data so I unable to partcipate in this backtest for 2652 method.Though I am trading since last 4 days .Till date 3 win and 1 loss trade in RIL.

Regards
VJAY

 

[dhiraj11378]

Hi Humble,

You sound quite logical.In all probability the 3rd order of Shortsell-Buy
get executed immediately since it is close to market price.

I want to know how this is carried out with 2 orders in other
platforms.Others please respond.

columbus and sri i think for this indiainfoline is the best for stop loss buy and stop loss sell orders .
will ask bandlab to comment on this .

dhiraj

 

[dhiraj11378]

this is quite surprising to me... and surely must be more surprising to Dhiraj...
Before moving further, just one clarification from u - did u trade the same stock everyday??? coz, if it makes a loss one day, the next day should be surely a profitable one...


Some of the stocks which Dhiraj recommends from Nifty50:

1. BHEL
2. Bharti Airtel
3. HDFC
4. HDFC BAnk
5. ICICI Bank
6. Infosys
7. L & T
8. NTPC
9. Reliance Capital
10. Reliance Communication
11. Reliance Industries
12. Reliance Infrastructure
13. State Bank of India
14. SAIL

(Bold ones are with very good turnover)

IF A GROUP OF 7 GUYS/VOLUNTEERS (2 STOCKS FOR EACH) CAN BACKTEST THIS SYSTEM FROM START OF 2009 TILL DATE (IE AROUND 25 TRADING DAYS), THEN WE CAN VERIFY THE REAL EFFECTIVENESS OF THIS SYSTEM IN CASE OF STOCKS.


SOME COMMON RULES WHICH ARE TO BE FOLLOWED FOR BACKTEST:

1.
The system rules (as mentioned by Dhiraj) should be followed strictly and to the core.
a. Previous day high & low from EOD chart (which is also equal to NSE data)
b. Intraday high & low have only one source while backtesting - intraday charts.
c. First trade's targets @ 0.5%, SL @ 1%
d. If first trade at loss, then second trade target @ 0.82%
e. If one day at loss, then next day's target for first trade should be 0.8%

2.
If possible, try to backtest the system over stocks using CASH MARKET rates.

3.
The result of the system over each stock may be presented in a similiar way like I did (scenario - no. of days).... no need of actual total % of gains, return on capital, blah blah blah....
we know if it's loss, then -1%, if it;s gain then +0.5%, if second trade loss then -2%, if second trade gain then +1.64%
(second trades are with double qty).
I don't think Excel's high level knowledge is required for this - excel is just for convenient buy/sell calculations... rest has to be just visually confirmed from the charts...
When I had done nifty's backtest around a month back, it took me around 2 hours for 20days test in a normal pace, with breaks. So, 2 stocks' backtest should not require over 4 hours in total.




So, may I know amongst the regular members of this thread, how many of you can volunteer for this test:
1. you should have EOD charts of any 2 of above stocks (preferably cash market) from 1-Jan-09
2. you should have intraday charts (5/10min charts) from 1-Jan-09
3. you should have 4 hours to spare for this backtest (4 hours is maximum with pauses/breaks/normal pace)

above all,
4. you should have an actual working/trading experience of this system of atleast 5 days - atleast a good understanding of the system & its rules



Hoping to get atleast 7 volunteers soon, so that all tests are finished by this weekend....
I may not be able to log in till afternoon - if someone is ready, then just mention any 2 stocks from the above list, and start backtesting for those two stocks.
This will enable another volunteer to select another set of 2 stocks

yes sunil , nifty is giving good results ,
ur idea of backtesting for cash stocks is brilliant .
hope some of regular members help in this .
dhiraj

 

[dhiraj11378]

RIL came down. Sold at 1324 with + of 5 per share.

hi , reliance made a profit yestdy to 0.5 percent
do not repeat this mistake again , ur killing ur profits .

dhiraj

 

[dhiraj11378]

it,s confusing

hi nitin ,
just take some pains for understanding it clearly , definately it will help you.

dhiraj

 

[dhiraj11378]

Dhiraj,

I am a little confused about shifting buy and sell orders as the time passes. Let me explain by giving an example.

Let us say factor 1 = 40, factor 2 = 60 and factor 3 = 80 for the day.

Now, at 10.15 high /low is 2800 and 2770. So, factor 1 is applied and I get buy trigger at 2770+40 = 2810 and sell trigger at 2800- 40 = 2760.

Now, at 10.35 high / low is 2808 and 2765, so no order is triggerred and diff. being 43 which is greater than 40. Now my buy / sell orders, shud I use filter 1 or filter 2.

As per filter 1, buy trigger will be 2765 + 40 = 2805 and sell trigger will be 2808 - 40 = 2768. As per filter2, buy trigger will be 2765 + 60 = 2825 and sell trigger will be 2808 - 60 = 2748. Which set of orders will be correct?

I will appreciate if you throw light on such a scenario.

BTW, I generally follow Nifty, Bhel Hdfc, RIL, SBI ( All futures) and I made profits in all the scrips. Many thnx!

Yash



Yash

this was a one of good querries made here .
first as sunil told the factor which is taken from 10.15 to 10.35 for a particular stock should be kept constant .
now the above condition can arise if ur tracking more than one or two stocks .
if ur tracking single nifty suppose high at 2800 , low at 2770 at 10.15
factor of 40
sell orders at 2860 and buy at 2810
, now here if u have a single stock u must keep and eye on highs and lows after u get ur calculations and orders done , it may be 10.20 or 10.25
suppose as per u a new high was made at 2808 at 10.20 then ur modified sell order would have been 2768 . from here ur saying a new low was made at 2765 , but as ur sell order is at 2768 ur sell order is triggered.so here u have entered a trade at 2768 sell for factor 40 . so this is the constant factor for the next trade if first is a lost trade .
this is rare case the price has to make a new high and from that it has to come to a new low in around 15 minutes . a very rare case .
if ur tracking a single or two two stock u can take care of it , but if have 5 stocks u cant .
so i would request all that u must be quick and competent to handle the number of shares ( ur picking ) and quickly go back to highs and lows of the stock taken , may be before 10.35

yash ,sasi
hope u got it ,
dhiraj

 

[dhiraj11378]

hi Dhiraj/bandlab2,

you have been kind enuff to help me out
but there are few things i would like u to let me know

a) are all these calculation based on future stock.

coz i deal in spot at the moment so m working out according to spot only.

b) Mr. Dhiraj said that we need to keep on changing the calculation as per the new highs and new lows

so thats all i need to clarify

thanx n regs,

sunita

hi sunita ,
when i tested and used this method for cash only, i was knowing nothing of futures , ( till today i dont know how options work )
so if ur trading in cash u can take two sources of values
cash wrong tick values , which are there on nse website or ur trading terminal window .
second is that u can spot chart values .
means actual chart highs and chart lows from charts of stocks .
but whatever the source of ur data keep it the same for all days .
hope calculations part is cleared .
for ur second querry regarding high and low
yes u have to keep a eye on high and low in day .
a new high made ur sell order will be new high - the factor chosen at 10.15
same for a new low made . here u can take some time as its takes time for a trend reversal , but can avoid it .
trade in cash , but i would suggest to come come in futures once ur have got 2652 total clear and traded in cash with ease .

i thank sunil for helping me know of futures.
for nifty and reliance futurs it rocks .

dhiraj

 

[amar_gr]

FREE source for both intraday & EOD charts (for those who don't have any charting software) is www.investbulls.com
Registration is simple & free - after that u can access EOD charts & intraday charts of any timeframe (from 1min charts upto 60min charts)
I did my nifty test from that website....

Now, I have even provided you the source...
Only 3 to 4 hours is reqd for going through each day's charts (from 1-Jan-09 till date) for 2 scrips....

Now, can we have atleast 5 more volunteers, besides Amar & Vijay (coincidentally, it means "immortality" & "victory" is already on our side)....

This exercise is for our own mutual benefit...
we can select 2-3 stocks from above 14 stocks which have better results...

Comeon guys, show some active participation....
I'll be happy even if exercise for atleast 1 stock is volunteered for (incase, the person does not have more spare time)....

Just one request - once u have the source of charts ready (please verify the charts first before committing) and before beginning the exercise, please mention the stock which u have selected for backtest....
this will prevent others from picking the same stock again for backtest....

Please post the results before Monday morning

This data source looks great, thanks a lot to Sunil for this link.
I confirm these three stocks RIL, Infosys & Reliance Cap, to be backtested in cash on NSE exchange. For the fourth, I
will be able to confirm for one more by today evening or latest tomorrow morning. Results I will report in the same summary format as done by Sunil for Nifty Fut.

Cheers
Amar

 

[sasi0263]

this is quite surprising to me... and surely must be more surprising to Dhiraj...
Before moving further, just one clarification from u - did u trade the same stock everyday??? coz, if it makes a loss one day, the next day should be surely a profitable one...


Some of the stocks which Dhiraj recommends from Nifty50:

1. BHEL
2. Bharti Airtel
3. HDFC
4. HDFC BAnk
5. ICICI Bank
6. Infosys
7. L & T
8. NTPC
9. Reliance Capital
10. Reliance Communication
11. Reliance Industries
12. Reliance Infrastructure
13. State Bank of India
14. SAIL

(Bold ones are with very good turnover)

IF A GROUP OF 7 GUYS/VOLUNTEERS (2 STOCKS FOR EACH) CAN BACKTEST THIS SYSTEM FROM START OF 2009 TILL DATE (IE AROUND 25 TRADING DAYS), THEN WE CAN VERIFY THE REAL EFFECTIVENESS OF THIS SYSTEM IN CASE OF STOCKS.


SOME COMMON RULES WHICH ARE TO BE FOLLOWED FOR BACKTEST:

1.
The system rules (as mentioned by Dhiraj) should be followed strictly and to the core.
a. Previous day high & low from EOD chart (which is also equal to NSE data)
b. Intraday high & low have only one source while backtesting - intraday charts.
c. First trade's targets @ 0.5%, SL @ 1%
d. If first trade at loss, then second trade target @ 0.82%
e. If one day at loss, then next day's target for first trade should be 0.8%

2.
If possible, try to backtest the system over stocks using CASH MARKET rates.

3.
The result of the system over each stock may be presented in a similiar way like I did (scenario - no. of days).... no need of actual total % of gains, return on capital, blah blah blah....
we know if it's loss, then -1%, if it;s gain then +0.5%, if second trade loss then -2%, if second trade gain then +1.64%
(second trades are with double qty).
I don't think Excel's high level knowledge is required for this - excel is just for convenient buy/sell calculations... rest has to be just visually confirmed from the charts...
When I had done nifty's backtest around a month back, it took me around 2 hours for 20days test in a normal pace, with breaks. So, 2 stocks' backtest should not require over 4 hours in total.




So, may I know amongst the regular members of this thread, how many of you can volunteer for this test:
1. you should have EOD charts of any 2 of above stocks (preferably cash market) from 1-Jan-09
2. you should have intraday charts (5/10min charts) from 1-Jan-09
3. you should have 4 hours to spare for this backtest (4 hours is maximum with pauses/breaks/normal pace)

above all,
4. you should have an actual working/trading experience of this system of atleast 5 days - atleast a good understanding of the system & its rules



Hoping to get atleast 7 volunteers soon, so that all tests are finished by this weekend....
I may not be able to log in till afternoon - if someone is ready, then just mention any 2 stocks from the above list, and start backtesting for those two stocks.
This will enable another volunteer to select another set of 2 stocks

Dear Sunil/Dheeraj,

Thanks for such initiative. I am already on the way of nifty analysis as per method/rule of 2652 ie. doubling the lot with enhanced Tgt of 0.82% in case of SL hit. I have completed the same for last 5 months data. Will c u guys on monday with the result.

Thanks