For reference.
In image 4 break of 2 is not a minor UT.
You have got most of the things right wisp, few things are corrected as under :
I am happy to see many responded and posted their views. Instead of responding to individual posts I am making a general post giving how I view it. Please understand that my views are not final and I reserve my right to make mistakes.
Here we go...
I am assuming all pivots to be minor pivots which may get upgraded
to visual pivots based on the market action.
Figure 1 :: This is simple. We closed below the ERL marked in green and also broke the highest mpl so minor downtrend has started.( Any one of these conditions will confirm minor DT.
Figure 2: At (a) we closed below the green ERL which means minor downtrend has started so the high of the move becomes VPH
Once we close above the ERL at (b) that means minor uptrend has started making point (a) as a VPL and when we break this point (A) we are now in a Visual downtrend
Figure 3:: After A when we either close below green ERL or go below the minor pivot and come to B,that means minor downtrend has started thus making point A as VPH
Price closing above the red line has no significance.But if it closes above the green ERL then B becomes VPL.
But as we have broken C on the upside,we have started minor uptrend. Now our attention points are A (VPH) and B (VPL) .If A is taken out, then we have resumed/started visual uptrend, but if B is cracked,after making lower high,then we start visual downtrend with lower VPH and VPL.
Figure 4: B has closed below ERL so A and B are VPH and VPL.Between A and B we have sideways move.
When Z breaks A we have higher VPH but VPL is firmly at B .When we go below B we take a short trade because we are now in a possible or likely visual downtrend and in our method we trade possible visual downtrend on break of VPL as visual downtrend confirmation will be too late.
Break of 2 is a minor uptrend making point 1 as VPL.
Trust the above helps ( and there are no typo errors )
Smart_trade
Yes the same green ERL is operational till we get a new ERL from the minor downtrend. Once we get a new ERL then the earlier ERL will not be considered and the new ERL will be operational for all pivot upgrades. We still dont have a fresh ERL from the minor DT.
Smart_trade
My answers given pointwise in blue below every point.
Smart_trade
Lower degree trend is my tweak something like we have minor, minute and minuette waves in EW Theory analysis....it has come from the trading experience of these lower degree trends ( and the losses by trading them incorrectly ) You will not find it in the original method...
Smart_trade
Originally Posted by wisp
Da, please correct my understanding.
Da, please correct my understanding.
You have got most of the things right wisp, few things are corrected as under :
I am happy to see many responded and posted their views. Instead of responding to individual posts I am making a general post giving how I view it. Please understand that my views are not final and I reserve my right to make mistakes.
Here we go...
I am assuming all pivots to be minor pivots which may get upgraded
to visual pivots based on the market action.
Figure 1 :: This is simple. We closed below the ERL marked in green and also broke the highest mpl so minor downtrend has started.( Any one of these conditions will confirm minor DT.
Figure 2: At (a) we closed below the green ERL which means minor downtrend has started so the high of the move becomes VPH
Once we close above the ERL at (b) that means minor uptrend has started making point (a) as a VPL and when we break this point (A) we are now in a Visual downtrend
Figure 3:: After A when we either close below green ERL or go below the minor pivot and come to B,that means minor downtrend has started thus making point A as VPH
Price closing above the red line has no significance.But if it closes above the green ERL then B becomes VPL.
But as we have broken C on the upside,we have started minor uptrend. Now our attention points are A (VPH) and B (VPL) .If A is taken out, then we have resumed/started visual uptrend, but if B is cracked,after making lower high,then we start visual downtrend with lower VPH and VPL.
Figure 4: B has closed below ERL so A and B are VPH and VPL.Between A and B we have sideways move.
When Z breaks A we have higher VPH but VPL is firmly at B .When we go below B we take a short trade because we are now in a possible or likely visual downtrend and in our method we trade possible visual downtrend on break of VPL as visual downtrend confirmation will be too late.
Break of 2 is a minor uptrend making point 1 as VPL.
Trust the above helps ( and there are no typo errors )
Smart_trade
Yes the same green ERL is operational till we get a new ERL from the minor downtrend. Once we get a new ERL then the earlier ERL will not be considered and the new ERL will be operational for all pivot upgrades. We still dont have a fresh ERL from the minor DT.
Smart_trade
Originally Posted by TracerBullet
this is a bit of repetition, but ill like to write down what i understood, please correct if somethings is incorrect. Also some questions below.
Pic A: 1 and 2 are minor pivots, 3 becomes VPH after price closes below ERL1. 4 becomes VPL after price closes above ERL1. Similarly 5 and 6. if price later breaks 6 we are in likely visual DT. We enter short at 6, although trend is confirmed after lower Visual High
All Correct
Pic B: A-B-C is Visual DT. c becomes VPL after price breaks d. f becomes VPH after price closes below ERL-d, g becomes VPL after price closes above it. Once f breaks we are in likely Visual uptrend,We enter long above f. We are in lower degree uptrend, confirmed only after price breaks VPH above Visual ERL-a.
Once f breaks on upside, we are in a lower degree confirmed visual uptend but of one lower degree.Confirmed because we now have higher VPLs in c and g and higher VPH in f and above.
Lower degree because the main visual downtrend is still on...it will get reversed when we make a pivot above visual ERL from a and make a higher bottom and then take out that pivot high....till then we are in main visual downtrend.
What does lower degree trend mean? At what point do we expect Higher degree down trend to assert itself? Should we be 'careful' say around VERL-a - ie if VPH-f is too close to VERL-a, then wait for pivot break above ERL-a before entering long.
Lower degree trend as far as I remember was not in the original method. It is my tweak because many times based on upgraded VPs like f,h etc I would assume that visual uptrend has started but then before ERL at a the market will crack the VPL and resume the original visual downtrend.So till we pivot above vis ERL a we are still in larger vis DT..this tweak has helped me a great deal.Any time before ERL a the larger downtrend can resurface. But this case is different from the long we go on even minor pivot on a sustained downmove followed by steep fall and/or gap down opening.
Next, say we are in Visual Downtrend and minor uptrend. I want to enter short when this minor uptrend reverses. When price closes below ERL, ie on bar 3 completion, we consider it as trend reversal. Can we use this to enter before pivot low break? In this example we can perhaps consider below bar 1 low, but can we simply use limit/market order once 3 completes?
Yes we can but that will be a little aggressive....more safe will be enter 1/2 position below 3 and remaining half on a pivot low made below the ERL and on crack of that pivot low....
thank you.
this is a bit of repetition, but ill like to write down what i understood, please correct if somethings is incorrect. Also some questions below.
Pic A: 1 and 2 are minor pivots, 3 becomes VPH after price closes below ERL1. 4 becomes VPL after price closes above ERL1. Similarly 5 and 6. if price later breaks 6 we are in likely visual DT. We enter short at 6, although trend is confirmed after lower Visual High
All Correct
Pic B: A-B-C is Visual DT. c becomes VPL after price breaks d. f becomes VPH after price closes below ERL-d, g becomes VPL after price closes above it. Once f breaks we are in likely Visual uptrend,We enter long above f. We are in lower degree uptrend, confirmed only after price breaks VPH above Visual ERL-a.
Once f breaks on upside, we are in a lower degree confirmed visual uptend but of one lower degree.Confirmed because we now have higher VPLs in c and g and higher VPH in f and above.
Lower degree because the main visual downtrend is still on...it will get reversed when we make a pivot above visual ERL from a and make a higher bottom and then take out that pivot high....till then we are in main visual downtrend.
What does lower degree trend mean? At what point do we expect Higher degree down trend to assert itself? Should we be 'careful' say around VERL-a - ie if VPH-f is too close to VERL-a, then wait for pivot break above ERL-a before entering long.
Lower degree trend as far as I remember was not in the original method. It is my tweak because many times based on upgraded VPs like f,h etc I would assume that visual uptrend has started but then before ERL at a the market will crack the VPL and resume the original visual downtrend.So till we pivot above vis ERL a we are still in larger vis DT..this tweak has helped me a great deal.Any time before ERL a the larger downtrend can resurface. But this case is different from the long we go on even minor pivot on a sustained downmove followed by steep fall and/or gap down opening.
Next, say we are in Visual Downtrend and minor uptrend. I want to enter short when this minor uptrend reverses. When price closes below ERL, ie on bar 3 completion, we consider it as trend reversal. Can we use this to enter before pivot low break? In this example we can perhaps consider below bar 1 low, but can we simply use limit/market order once 3 completes?
Yes we can but that will be a little aggressive....more safe will be enter 1/2 position below 3 and remaining half on a pivot low made below the ERL and on crack of that pivot low....
thank you.
Smart_trade
Lower degree trend is my tweak something like we have minor, minute and minuette waves in EW Theory analysis....it has come from the trading experience of these lower degree trends ( and the losses by trading them incorrectly ) You will not find it in the original method...
Smart_trade
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