Zerodha - Number One Discount Broker in India

I don't get it why you guys are talking about charges for Pi? Why do we(traders) have to pay for basic things that are essential to trade? If Zerodha also start charging us for the new platform then how they are here to change the current scenario?

I am not saying that they should give us everything for free but instead they can let us use basic things for free and only charge for premium/extra stuff.
They will HAVE to charge for Pi because data feed is very expensive. This is one of the reasons why we have only two or three authorized data feed providers in India.

Zerodha will have to

1 .cover the data feed charges
2 .Provide PI application support.

These two will cost them and they have to charge us to sustain these two costs. Support of PI application will be ongoing because the numerous issues it will have and new features they will have to add.

you really think you will get everything from your broker for Rs 20. What kind of world are you living in? Wake up my friend.

and for Zerodha, please don't try to act like there will be no issue with PI as you will try to do it shortly after release. Many people know and understand the business of application support, me being one. So if you try and do that i will catch you. No harm in admitting mistakes. Take it in best interest and improve on it. This way you will earn more respect from community. Even esignal/amibroker/metastock has it own share of issues and these are supposed to be best in class after many many versions.

I also hope that you will do a proper BETA release of PI , so that you can avoid a lot of headaches and frustration for users after official release. I know you will do it if you are smart. i don't expect it from you though since you are not a software company. But since it is built in house you can afford to do it.

It would also be nice if you could mention the charges in advance. I just hope it will be cheaper than say esignal/amibroker/metastock + data feed charges.
 
They will HAVE to charge for Pi because data feed is very expensive. This is one of the reasons why we have only two or three authorized data feed providers in India.

Zerodha will have to

1 .cover the data feed charges
2 .Provide PI application support.

These two will cost them and they have to charge us to sustain these two costs. Support of PI application will be ongoing because the numerous issues it will have and new features they will have to add.

you really think you will get everything from your broker for Rs 20. What kind of world are you living in? Wake up my friend.

and for Zerodha, please don't try to act like there will be no issue with PI as you will try to do it shortly after release. Many people know and understand the business of application support, me being one. So if you try and do that i will catch you. No harm in admitting mistakes. Take it in best interest and improve on it. This way you will earn more respect from community. Even esignal/amibroker/metastock has it own share of issues and these are supposed to be best in class after many many versions.

I also hope that you will do a proper BETA release of PI , so that you can avoid a lot of headaches and frustration for users after official release. I know you will do it if you are smart. i don't expect it from you though since you are not a software company. But since it is built in house you can afford to do it.

It would also be nice if you could mention the charges in advance. I just hope it will be cheaper than say esignal/amibroker/metastock + data feed charges.
What makes you think that Pi will be so attractive that most of the traders will want to pay for it ? All of them are doing without it at present, and the charges may be just enough to put them off Pi, and maybe continue with the other options. I am not using Amibroker, but a lot of people are using the unlicensed version as you are aware.

I think that Zerodha being expert marketing professionals, will offer it free for a certain period, while working out their costs and how much they can milk the market, and then will come up with the final decision.

Already there are a lot of competitors in the discount brokerage field, after Zerodha started it (not counting RKG @999 per segment).
 
Is the charges too much ?
Well, It is definitely high if we include their brokerage commission as well. I should have mentioned that in the previous post. Lets see the big picture with an example.

For convenience purpose, we will assume that the trader trades futures and the turnover for the day is 1 crore. With the currrent price of Nifty, just 600 shares(12 lots) would get us 1 cr turnover approx.

1. Ib's trx charges are 190/leg..So, for a round trip trade,it is 380/trade/cr

2. Commission a.k.a brokerage = 0.01% of 1 crore = Rs.1000 for overnight trades. But if a person, opens and closes the position intraday, then it is Rs.500 (for intraday trades, they charge only on the opening leg)

3. For cost tier plan, it is actually 0.012% if turnover less than 50 crores for the month. For fixed plan, it is 0.01%.

Other charges are govt charges..so, they are all the same across brokers.

So, with IB, if a trader trades 12 lots and trades intraday(and the turnover is 1 cr), then he would pay 380+500 = Rs.880. If he carries over position, then he pays 380+1000 = Rs.1380.

With zerodha, if a trader trades 12 lots and trades intraday (and the turnover is 1cr), then he pays 210+40(brokerage) = Rs.250. If he carries over position, it is still the same Rs.250.

So, essentially we are talking about - Rs. 880 vs Rs 250 intraday and Rs.1380 vs Rs.250 for carry overs in a day. If a trader trades everyday in a month once and his turnover is 1cr/day, then we are talking about huge difference - approx. Rs.10000 intraday trades saving and Rs.22000 swing trades savings (for 12 lots)

Now, you tell me if the charges are high with IB. Am not supporting Zerodha here and i have no vested interest with them (ofcourse i trade via Zerodha). Just trying to answer your question on the charges.

Different brokers charge differently and they have a business reason for that. As a customer, we should choose our brokers based on our needs. Costwise - IB is ridiculous. Feature wise, Zerodha is not that far behind with this new 'pi' software. So, thats why i was telling in the other post that Zerodha should have a real robust server without any disconnection in vending data during market hours. If they could give uninterrupted data with good s/w(for nominal costs -maybe 1000/month) and trading off the charts, nothing like it.
 
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manishchan

Well-Known Member
Loads of speculations/predictions while Zerodha people might just be high on booze celebrating their anniversary over this weekend :D

I'm sure Zerodha would already have all the technicality, charge or don't charge, provide beta or don't provide beta etc things planned out. If they have shown the trailer, the movie might not be far away and I am doubtful that they will change anything at this point of time. Why not we let them publish it officially and then like it, hate it or protest it. ;)
 
What makes you think that Pi will be so attractive that most of the traders will want to pay for it ? All of them are doing without it at present, and the charges may be just enough to put them off Pi, and maybe continue with the other options. I am not using Amibroker, but a lot of people are using the unlicensed version as you are aware.

I think that Zerodha being expert marketing professionals, will offer it free for a certain period, while working out their costs and how much they can milk the market, and then will come up with the final decision.

Already there are a lot of competitors in the discount brokerage field, after Zerodha started it (not counting RKG @999 per segment).
What makes it attractive will be

1. Cheaper cost.
2. Ease of usage(Focusing on trading rather than issues with application)

Like you said many are using "free" data usage. you think that data is reliable. you don't even have an idea if your trading strategy is giving you the right or wrong signal because of wrong data feed. This reason alone is enough to not use the "free" data provided by many illegal data providers and other hack utilities. But many do simply because they don't care about correct data and how it impacts their strategy. They just want free signal on their chart and make money. They are just too lazy to do the hard work like the rest of the traders.

yes Zerodha will have to make some profit out this otherwise why would they start this and if you call it "milking" then i don't know what world you are living in. By your definition then every business is out there to "milk" you. LOL.

Look it doesn't matter what you think or i think about it. Time will tell if PI is worthy to the trading community and if it is worthy and i we have another option apart from amibroker/esignal/metastock and god knows we need more options in this area.

There is practically no competition in the data feed + application in this country. As internet penetration is growing in the country and trading becoming cheaper, Zerodha will be the leader in this area at least few years down the line and many brokerages will shut shop.

I can tell you that Zerodha is trying hard to survive in this cut throat business. if they don't keep innovating and adding value , they will have the fate of many other failed brokerage business and they know it. This is true not just for a brokerage business like Zerodha, it's true for ANY business including trading.
 
What makes it attractive will be

1. Cheaper cost.
2. Ease of usage(Focusing on trading rather than issues with application)

Like you said many are using "free" data usage. you think that data is reliable. you don't even have an idea if your trading strategy is giving you the right or wrong signal because of wrong data feed. This reason alone is enough to not use the "free" data provided by many illegal data providers and other hack utilities. But many do simply because they don't care about correct data and how it impacts their strategy. They just want free signal on their chart and make money. They are just too lazy to do the hard work like the rest of the traders.

yes Zerodha will have to make some profit out this otherwise why would they start this and if you call it "milking" then i don't know what world you are living in. By your definition then every business is out there to "milk" you. LOL.

Look it doesn't matter what you think or i think about it. Time will tell if PI is worthy to the trading community and if it is worthy and i we have another option apart from amibroker/esignal/metastock and god knows we need more options in this area.

There is practically no competition in the data feed + application in this country. As internet penetration is growing in the country and trading becoming cheaper, Zerodha will be the leader in this area at least few years down the line and many brokerages will shut shop.

I can tell you that Zerodha is trying hard to survive in this cut throat business. if they don't keep innovating and adding value , they will have the fate of many other failed brokerage business and they know it. This is true not just for a brokerage business like Zerodha, it's true for ANY business including trading.
Yes, I believe that they would add value to their Rs. 20 per trade plan, rather than bring it down. I think they will absorb the cost of Pi.
 
What kind of world are you living in? Wake up my friend.
1. First of all keep your judgmental bullshit away from me.

2. Second, Zerodha is not a data vendor. They will get the data for Pi in same way they get for Nest.

3. And please read my comment again I didn't ask everything for free. Were you not to able comprehend two of those terms I talked about : "Basic", "Premium"?

4. If you charge for a basic tool which allows to place the orders and analyze the market activity then there's no need to call yourself a discount brokerage. In fact it was Zerodha itself who claimed that they aspire to become like https://www.robinhood.com/. I hope you remember.

5. Moreover they're launching it because at present almost everyone here hates Nest for its problems. Everyone here only have requested Zerodha to provide them with a terminal which doesn't crash frequently during market hours, doesn't have problems such as needing to reconcile and doesn't takes too much time to load. Have we asked too much from Zerodha? Is it not their duty to fulfill their customer's basic request? Or are they like Indian Government who says to its citizens,"Go figure out yourself"?
 
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Jai Mata Di

Well-Known Member
Zeroda's long time stance:"Why should U pay in advance & then force urself to trade?"

Cost I don't think will really be a factor..
I just want to remember, following is Zerodha's long time stance. Every time they say this..

"We believe that we should never charge advance brokerage. You should use our services and then pay us a very nominal fee...
This is the only way you and I both will benefit....
Why should you pay in advance and then force yourself to trade?
On the other hand, if you have traded, you don't mind paying a small Rs. 20. " :thumb:

- Zerodha.


No need to change stance & charge advance payment for PI & force old clients to trade more. :)
So, easiest option for Zerodha, within previous stance is they can increase brokerage little more.
If PI is good enough, we can give you Rs 25 easily instead of Rs 20 which is 25% increment. A fair deal. :clapping:


Best Wishes.
Happy Trading.


H.C.
 
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So In this platform Pi, Zerodha is using data feeds from NEST providers? I have used NEST and ODIN Diet, and I so see that there us a vast difference in usage. ODIN ranks far better in features and performance in my opinion. The vast discussion on NEST and NSE NOW on traderji baffles me. It is as if they are some crazy ass rocket science platforms.

Coming to the new platform Pi, traders expect a decent all in one platform which is reliable. Features such as click on chart to trade sounds great. But when a platform like Pi is built on APIs and is reliant on NEST. I'm expecting a lot of glitches as it seems to be yet another retail level fancy looking stuff..

P.S - Migrating from one platform is a pain.
 

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