Stop loss hunting on cover and bracket orders

#11
NSE seems to have a separate order-book for SLs, which is different from the regular order-book, so presumably, unless NSE is being hacked into or there's some corruption going on, SLs are probably not visible to everyone until they're triggered & sent out as market or limit orders into the regular-book.
https://www.nseindia.com/products/content/equities/equities/trading_system.htm

The following video should be somewhat helpful in understanding that institutions just know how retail traders trade, which allows them to guess where most SLs are likely to be after a move, & then they wait for pullbacks/rallies to hit the area full of SLs & lap up all of that liquidity since it allows them to minimize slippage on their large orders. Of course, not all institutional traders might be trading exactly the same way but that's beside the point.




If you think stop-hunting is very profitable, then try it yourself & see how it goes!

 

haruns

Animal Spirits !
#12
I completely agree with the feedback shared by @Loss_Lover and @msn 1979. it cant be further from truth. when a trader is wrong in his analysis more often your SL will hit and you will blame the operator. People who loose will believe problem exits outside, but in reality problem lies within. you have to take responsibility of your trading. whatever market does it is "market" and it should be accepted as its basic nature as market is composed of people. professional traders get busy honing their skill while novice is busy thinking about all these stuff from media which is created to mislead
 
#13
I completely agree with the feedback shared by @Loss_Lover and @msn 1979. it cant be further from truth. when a trader is wrong in his analysis more often your SL will hit and you will blame the operator. People who loose will believe problem exits outside, but in reality problem lies within. you have to take responsibility of your trading. whatever market does it is "market" and it should be accepted as its basic nature as market is composed of people. professional traders get busy honing their skill while novice is busy thinking about all these stuff from media which is created to mislead
Look. I'm not blaming anyone nor am I losing money. All I'm asking is whether it is reliable to use the high leverage provided by bracket and cover orders safely. Can't everyone just simply answer this question instead of discussing useless stuff.
 

haruns

Animal Spirits !
#15
Stop-loss hunt is a paradox in reality. Do we really need to know why we lose a trade? It's just the opposite of our expected outcome. We can either be right or wrong. We have no control over the outcome. Stop-loss hit simply shows that we were wrong, look for next trade. Move on......

It's more like appearing a school class-test with every single trade. Some questions you get right, some wrong. Back then in school, you didn't use to cry foul on teacher for being wrong. You were just wrong, so no mark scored, simple! Why now?

It's our money-related emotional foreplay that converts a small potential loss into a big one. Otherwise, if we stick to our rule the outcome after several hundred trades will approximate to the win-loss% of our strategy, isn't it? We consistently make a mistake to observe every trade individually instead of analyzing a certain set of trades. Blame huge leverage that you take, not the Trade or the Big Boys who are providing liquidity for you and me to swim!

After three years of full-time all sorts of trading, one piece of suggestion that I can give you is that we have no right to "judge" a Trade, rather, we need to "execute" the Plan no matter what......

Coming to Stop-Loss placement, I maintain a fixed x% on my capital (without leverage) that I can afford to loose several times in a row which will allow me to survive in the market even after being hit several times. Believe me! It is the most toughest thing to do in Trading with due-diligence and discipline. Now, in-order to escape the typical scenario of markets hitting our stop and run in our original direction, I consider Volatility and ATR for Stops within my "Affordability". Search for Cynthia Kase's work for better understanding.

Thanks for reading...
All the Best...
wow! it literally felt like i am listening to Mark Douglas
thanks for sharing your experience with us!!! :)
 

haruns

Animal Spirits !
#17
Refer this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/nanotrade/comments/7zjo71 .
Here also the author talks about not setting your stop loss in the system because of stop limit hunting.
It's because of posts like these that I asked this question. I'm not losing money in the market; just trying to find out the answer of this simple question.
agree with your view. however we did not point anyone we just talked about a traders psychology in general. regarding whether to put SL in the system or in mind is question of debate. but my experience says it is better to put it in system as market can crash anytime and it will still save you a lot of money if that happens. fake SL hunting happens but a trader should not fear about it. other wise trading will get dificult.
as an example today i placed SL in titan for 920 and it hit my SL and went till 921.5 and the eventually revers without any pull back to 913 but had i not put the SL i would have made profit instead of loss but i dont want that kind of profit as someday it may eat all my capital if i does not reverse
 

MSN1979

Well-Known Member
#18
I completely agree with the feedback shared by @Loss_Lover and @msn 1979. it cant be further from truth. when a trader is wrong in his analysis more often your SL will hit and you will blame the operator. People who loose will believe problem exits outside, but in reality problem lies within. you have to take responsibility of your trading. whatever market does it is "market" and it should be accepted as its basic nature as market is composed of people. professional traders get busy honing their skill while novice is busy thinking about all these stuff from media which is created to mislead
I would like to add

Lets say pivot traders keep SL as last pivot low, do you think bank guys or manipulator's did not study what's a pivot or what's an MA or any other indicator. Where did you learn these methods? They are feeding us these theories so they can make money out of this. So they know where our SL would be, why would they let u make money when they need more for them.

By thinking all this you cannot over come the challenge, so lets agree to the fact that your SL will be hit, So here is the real question would be as I trader how do I manage my trade in such a way that I turn out to be profitable at the end of month/quarter/year even if my SL gets hit multiple times?

Q. Can this be done.?
A. Yes

Q. How?
A. Trade 1 system long enough to understand it. Start with very less quantity where you emotions would have no play.

Q. Where do I find such system?
A. Lots of system available here on traderji, find what suits you best.

Few Examples
1. Vijay Bro method of Fish
2. Search for avni thread trade 1 method only
3. New thread started by sanju for swing and positional
4. Learn TIF thread
5. Learn Subhadip thread on traderji
6. Read old post from saint sir, Traderji himself. etc.


So before trading

I accept that I will make mistakes.

If SL is hit, it stops me out when I was wrong ( so its a good thing)

I will make small losses and let my wins run big

It will not happen in a day or month. Easier said then done.
 

newtrader101

Well-Known Member
#19
Last few days I've been fading the range bound Crude. Whenever I kept SL just outside the range it was hit. Without SL there was more success. (Extremely risky). But then the range changed.
The govt authorises market makers for providing liquidity. There are firms for each stock. They can see our stops. But they seem to be active only on certain days and price levels. You can see the price moving towards your stop as soon as you place it, take it out, and then return.
 
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Trader987

The Disciplined Trader
#20
If you don't believe in placing the stop loss in system...then just don't place it.
Just wait and watch.
It is just matter of time. Market will teach you FEAR.

Bracket order or not, just tell me your entry and i will predict your stop loss zone with more than 90% accuracy.

Work on entries and stop loss placement strategy..that will be better.
 
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