Require CTCL Developer

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#21
IMO according to indian laws there is nothing wrong in offering a closed product so there is nothing that we can do about it.
Are we sure of that or are we just assuming it?

Anyone have access to exchange/broker agreements, exchange rules changed from time to time...that would supplement the said agreement?

If I get a copy of that, I will initiate a correspondence with FT for access to their API, even if for payment....they will most probably not respond...I will followup with a legal notice, with exchanges as parties and MRTP (Monopolisic & Restrictive Trade Policies section of whatever ministry it works under)...we are not in China...nobody stops us from sending legal notice to anyone, especially if we don't intend to follow up on it :D

They have to respond to the legal notice with the correct position of affairs which allow them to strike it down :D Maybe this will lead to a way ;)

What do you say...guys ;-) I'll take care of the legal notice and lawyer expenses part....can someone research the broker/exchange agreements?

Sanjay.
 
#22
Are we sure of that or are we just assuming it?

Anyone have access to exchange/broker agreements, exchange rules changed from time to time...that would supplement the said agreement?

If I get a copy of that, I will initiate a correspondence with FT for access to their API, even if for payment....they will most probably not respond...I will followup with a legal notice, with exchanges as parties and MRTP (Monopolisic & Restrictive Trade Policies section of whatever ministry it works under)...we are not in China...nobody stops us from sending legal notice to anyone, especially if we don't intend to follow up on it :D

They have to respond to the legal notice with the correct position of affairs which allow them to strike it down :D Maybe this will lead to a way ;)

What do you say...guys ;-) I'll take care of the legal notice and lawyer expenses part....can someone research the broker/exchange agreements?

Sanjay.
Whoa! whoa! hold it :D
How is this different from Microsoft not letting every one know their word format internal structure or apple providing a closed hardware or iflex providing a closed flexcube solution ? If they have a right to do that, FT would be having a right to keep their oms a closed system and not exposing any API.
We can still have a very remote point by saying that they are discriminating small developers against institutions by not willing to sell their products to us.
Can you try contacting those guys from your side ? I'm planning to at a later point of time (may be pay a visit to their office or some thing like that).
 
#23
Whoa! whoa! hold it :D
How is this different from Microsoft not letting every one know their word format internal structure or apple providing a closed hardware or iflex providing a closed flexcube solution ? If they have a right to do that, FT would be having a right to keep their oms a closed system and not exposing any API.
We can still have a very remote point by saying that they are discriminating small developers against institutions by not willing to sell their products to us.
Can you try contacting those guys from your side ? I'm planning to at a later point of time (may be pay a visit to their office or some thing like that).
:D

Actually MRTP in India is quite a law, never used because of the inept Govt. & Consumer bodies and long wait for a lawsuit resolution, make it an nonviable tool.

Microsoft was forced to unbundle Internet Explorer, if I remember this correctly, due to this sort of thing only and now Google is coming under scanner again & again due to this sort of thing only.

FT is quite a force in its niche area. And its behaving like a monopoly. I remember talking to the CEO of a major OMS abroad whom I found him in my linkedin contact list. He was disgusted at the low prices for OMS (per user) in India and he said that was exactly what was keeping FT king of Indian markets. He said when prices become too low, % revenues per user become too low compared to other emerging markets, thus making India a lower marketing priority. FT on the other hand is looking at total revenue and lowering entry cost for brokers, by keeping per user license fees low and charging on a pay as you grow model. This is a way of doing business that is a paradigm that originates from India.....and in fact, increases FT's monopoly......the concept of value at the lower end of the Pyramid is a concept originating in the Indian context ;) Foreign companies are not yet comfortable with this sort of thing and one success from someone from abroad is required before it will create a "chalo India" movement by various vendors :mad:

As to how it is different from Microsoft ;-) Well...its like the Microsoft Document format vs. Open Document Format fight. Indian Govt. opted for Open Document format... though after heavy lobbying.

You see, exchanges except for MCX are pre-dominantly institution owned, where the Govt. holds tremendous power (SBI,UTI etc). Again Software Vendor Accredition is mainly exchange governed and Exchanges are supposed to be pro investor, not pro software vendor.

Any accusation, that reaches enuff ears or is highlighted by Media attention, is going to cause exchanges to react, under media and govt pressure, forcing the vendors to bend. Thats all we can ask for. Point is, our reasons in our written plea have to be valid and effective.

Comments?
Sanjay.
 
#24
Actually MRTP in India is quite a law, never used because of the inept Govt. & Consumer bodies and long wait for a lawsuit resolution, make it an nonviable tool.

Microsoft was forced to unbundle Internet Explorer, if I remember this correctly, due to this sort of thing only and now Google is coming under scanner again & again due to this sort of thing only.

FT is quite a force in its niche area. And its behaving like a monopoly. I remember talking to the CEO of a major OMS abroad whom I found him in my linkedin contact list. He was disgusted at the low prices for OMS (per user) in India and he said that was exactly what was keeping FT king of Indian markets. He said when prices become too low, % revenues per user become too low compared to other emerging markets, thus making India a lower marketing priority. FT on the other hand is looking at total revenue and lowering entry cost for brokers, by keeping per user license fees low and charging on a pay as you grow model. This is a way of doing business that is a paradigm that originates from India.....and in fact, increases FT's monopoly......the concept of value at the lower end of the Pyramid is a concept originating in the Indian context Foreign companies are not yet comfortable with this sort of thing and one success from someone from abroad is required before it will create a "chalo India" movement by various vendors :mad:

As to how it is different from Microsoft Well...its like the Microsoft Document format vs. Open Document Format fight. Indian Govt. opted for Open Document format... though after heavy lobbying.

You see, exchanges except for MCX are pre-dominantly institution owned, where the Govt. holds tremendous power (SBI,UTI etc). Again Software Vendor Accredition is mainly exchange governed and Exchanges are supposed to be pro investor, not pro software vendor.

Any accusation, that reaches enuff ears or is highlighted by Media attention, is going to cause exchanges to react, under media and govt pressure, forcing the vendors to bend. Thats all we can ask for. Point is, our reasons in our written plea have to be valid and effective.

Comments?
Sanjay.
Very true. Low prices to brokerages is what keeping FT alive. The quality is low and even many known bugs are hardly fixed. Many brokerages do complain but may be end up getting some kind of discount to keep mum. Look at their careers page any way. One technical position and so many sales/management positions. No wonder their solutions are sub par. But my motto is if you can't fight them, join them :D. That's the reason I'm still trying to get some way to connect custom products to their oms with their api.
If nothing works out, I will have to resort to rev-engg. Thats not very reliable but I dont see any other alternative :(. Funny that this happened with IBM in 80's. They kept their os closed for a while and ppl managed to rev engineer and make clones of it anyway.
Another very remote option would be to mediate some fix compliant outsider to offer their OMS in India at some discount to new brokerages. Once people get to know that they can use all those popular terminals out there, I'm sure they would flock to the new broker. And then ends the monopoly :).
 
#25
That's the reason I'm still trying to get some way to connect custom products to their oms with their api.
If nothing works out, I will have to resort to rev-engg. Thats not very reliable but I dont see any other alternative :(.
How would it be possible to reverse engineer? The connection between the client and the OMS would surely be encrypted or under ssh/ssl or some similar encapsulation.

Running a Tap using a sniffer shouldn't help unless the sniffing tool can get through the encapsulation? I wonder if an ex-FT guy can be found who can give goodies about the type of encapsulation or the protocol itself!

Anyone friends with a recruiter being used by FT? :D

Another very remote option would be to mediate some fix compliant outsider to offer their OMS in India at some discount to new brokerages. Once people get to know that they can use all those popular terminals out there, I'm sure they would flock to the new broker. And then ends the monopoly.
Tried that. A major broker is needed as a client....someone who believes that getting a technologically superior client is worth spending ten times FT's option, that too upfront...without pay as you grow option. New OMS vendors do not believe that going low-cost is an option for them, because that will force them to offer similar prices to their clients in developed and other developing countries.

It will be like cutting out their foot to spite a competitor :D

The guy I talked to was encouraged by entry of IB in India. He said one day customers will see what can be got and will ask the brokers for it. That's the day brokers will get better OMS and client technologies, he said. And I dont think that is day is going to come anytime soon and it can only come during a stock boom, when expectations are optimistic and some new broker may think this an expense worth making....but I'm not hlding my breath :mad:

Sanjay.
 
#26
How would it be possible to reverse engineer? The connection between the client and the OMS would surely be encrypted or under ssh/ssl or some similar encapsulation.

Running a Tap using a sniffer shouldn't help unless the sniffing tool can get through the encapsulation? I wonder if an ex-FT guy can be found who can give goodies about the type of encapsulation or the protocol itself!
That's correct. It's encrypted but any decent sniffer can not only decrypt ssl but also assemble the whole stream at a time. I recently used a sniffer which does just that (forgot the name :(). For their browser based platform, fiddler or iedebugger wil do the job.

The guy I talked to was encouraged by entry of IB in India. He said one day customers will see what can be got and will ask the brokers for it. That's the day brokers will get better OMS and client technologies, he said. And I dont think that is day is going to come anytime soon and it can only come during a stock boom, when expectations are optimistic and some new broker may think this an expense worth making....but I'm not hlding my breath :mad:
Sanjay.
I wish IB's rates are little less not to mention their minimum capital requirements.
 
#29
Hi,
I am Aneel, working in delhi as a software developer for a trading based comany from the past 4 months. I am having experience of 2 years of developing C++/VC+ applications.

Is NSE provides some DLL's or other API's for developing CTCL?

We want to develop F&O based CTCL.

Please reply as soon as possible.

With thanks and regards.

====
Aneel kumar (Software Developer)
[email protected]
 
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