Paper Trading your system- Is it needed?

[Mr.G]

This is my personal view.

I have been intraday trading for almost 3 years and I have noticed that what ever orders you put or have in pending status, there is someone out there that knows your exact position in the market. They simply use the power of money to pull the market against you. Be it short time trading within 3 mins or long time trading like 2 to 3 hrs.

For example, consider the main owner of you brokerage house. They have several people trading in their provided software.

1] Who knows what logic their software runs on the inside?
2] Why would the owner of the brokerage firm not want to know your position in trade and profit from that?
3] What if the brokerage firm that you have is actually manipulating the share price in order to make profit for themselves. They have huge amount of money to move the market in which ever direction they please.
4] Loss is always possible in a side ways trend because they can exercise their power of money effectively at that particular time.
5] People are brilliant, but never have I seen anyone making consistent profit or any one boosting their kill in the market. Why? Is there some kind of internal sly game played with the common man?
6] Why is you broker always eager to give you tips?? Why does he always insist that you listen to his tips?


The possibilities of fraud are immense in stock trading. No one speaks about it as eveyone concentrates on finding a method that works in earning money. But yet they loose money. What should be the logical outcome of this?

Looks like you made alot of losses trying to trade. Well, your broker wont try and victimize your stops all day for such small profits. So the broker doesnt hunt the common man.

Brokers give tips only on the sole basis that you will trade his tips and generate more brokerage for him. This is why stock market reports and other predictions are getting shorter in nature. Even damn fundamental analysts on tv18 are predicting stock movements.


The logical outcome is that ,why don't you try and invest in the markets and make money from them like you were supposed to? Learn fundamental analysis and invest in companies or scenarios where you think is best? :thumb:

 

[Mr.G]

If you are from the same club, then I hope that you will behave in an other way as Mr. G did in the past. Otherwise you will face problems here. As you not really trade with real good money, also watch how you react to the people here the way you make any answer. Hope you clearly understand that.

Yeah surely listen to Dan, 90% members here think i'm an *******.

 

[Giraffe]

Well, your avatar looks annoying and you seem to have a bit more knowledge compare to what your thread title shows. A little add has to be made to your very well explained above post: In paper trading we also do not know the real filed of our what ever placed orders in the real market and that will have a certain impact to our profit or loss outcome of any trade made with real money.

Take care and why not change such an annoying avatar to a less annoying one? DanPickUp

Yup , the avatar is very annoying......:thumb:

Better one: The Phantom......:lol::lol:

 

[carbonway]

Looks like you made alot of losses trying to trade. Well, your broker wont try and victimize your stops all day for such small profits. So the broker doesnt hunt the common man.

Brokers give tips only on the sole basis that you will trade his tips and generate more brokerage for him. This is why stock market reports and other predictions are getting shorter in nature. Even damn fundamental analysts on tv18 are predicting stock movements.


The logical outcome is that ,why don't you try and invest in the markets and make money from them like you were supposed to? Learn fundamental analysis and invest in companies or scenarios where you think is best? :thumb:

Its good to have a positive outlook on something, but its also equally important to weigh in the different possibilities. That you will learn through experience.

Regarding broker actions, there is no proof that it does not happen. But it is a possibility to gain a finanical advantage, for the owner of a big brokerage firm.
And they do not hunt down an individual is less likely because if you buy a couple hundred shares at once, you simply get highlighted. Any majority of people buy and sell at exactly the same spots after analysing trends. Its these places that see sudden turn of a stock.
They do not worry about you getting broke and not trading, because there are countiniously new people getting into it and keeping them happy.

 

[Mr.G]

Its good to have a positive outlook on something, but its also equally important to weigh in the different possibilities. That you will learn through experience.

Regarding broker actions, there is no proof that it does not happen. But it is a possibility to gain a finanical advantage, for the owner of a big brokerage firm.
And they do not hunt down an individual is less likely because if you buy a couple hundred shares at once, you simply get highlighted. Any majority of people buy and sell at exactly the same spots after analysing trends. Its these places that see sudden turn of a stock.
They do not worry about you getting broke and not trading, because there are countiniusly new people getting into it and keeping them happy.

So you are saying that the owner of a big brokerage house, likely making a **** load of money every second will specially commit funds to catch your stops?

What you see is not the broker, but the general populace selling and getting out of the trend. A single broker cannot and will not commit such big amount on his personal account just to catch stops from clients at his firm.

That money would rather be used in other desks like arbitrage or consolidating positions of clients.

 

[_Phantom_]

Well, your avatar looks annoying and you seem to have a bit more knowledge compare to what your thread title shows. A little add has to be made to your very well explained above post: In paper trading we also do not know the real filed of our what ever placed orders in the real market and that will have a certain impact to our profit or loss outcome of any trade made with real money.

Take care and why not change such an annoying avatar to a less annoying one? DanPickUp

Done as per your request sir. Absolutely Dan, Order execution is also one of the important aspect which is missed when paper trading. But with advance in technology, there are various platform now which provide simulation account with Live datafeed and Realtime order execution based on bid and ask prices using build-in order execution algorithms. NinjaTrader being one of them.

So with improvements in technology, Paper Trading would be replaced by simulation. Hope that fulfills the requirement for getting the feel of order execution. :thumb:

Thanks.
Phantom.

 

[DanPickUp]

Done as per your request sir. Absolutely Dan, Order execution is also one of the important aspect which is missed when paper trading. But with advance in technology, there are various platform now which provide simulation account with Live datafeed and Realtime order execution based on bid and ask prices using build-in order execution algorithms. NinjaTrader being one of them.

So with improvements in technology, Paper Trading would be replaced by simulation. Hope that fulfills the requirement for getting the feel of order execution. :thumb:

Thanks.
Phantom.

Are you trading with Ninja? Never done it. Do trade on Firetip and S5 at the moment and have planed to make a test on Ninja next week. Any thing special to look for when using Ninja?

 

[Giraffe]

So you are saying that the owner of a big brokerage house, likely making a **** load of money every second will specially commit funds to catch your stops?

What you see is not the broker, but the general populace selling and getting out of the trend. A single broker cannot and will not commit such big amount on his personal account just to catch stops from clients at his firm.

That money would rather be used in other desks like arbitrage or consolidating positions of clients.

Frontrunning is I suppose what you guys are talking about.

It was pretty rampant in USA when considerable % of retail traders still placed orders on phone. SEC crackdown caught many leading institutions doing this, and they settled it by paying billions without "admission of guilt".

But I think its unlikely now with everyone directly placing the order using online terminals. And most importantly, the strategy is now in open.

Regarding other manipulations, that's why the age old dictum of trading:
"Trade in the shadow of smart (read big) money".........

 

[_Phantom_]

If you are from the same club, then I hope that you will behave in an other way as Mr. G did in the past. Otherwise you will face problems here. As you also not really trade with real good money, also watch how you react to the people here the way you make any answer. Hope you clearly understand that.

:thumb: I understand it sir. I will see to it that i abide by the rules. Personalities and behavior differs from person to person. It would be highly appreciated if not linked based on past not so good experiences with others(as the last trade result has nothing to do with present trade.). I also hope that there wont be any discrimination merely based on age. About real good money: who knows sir? I appreciate your openness Dan.

Thanks.
Phantom.

 

[_Phantom_]

Are you trading with Ninja? Never done it. Do trade on Firetip and S5 at the moment and have planed to make a test on Ninja next week. Any thing special to look for when using Ninja?

No Dan, I don't trade on Ninja. However i used to use it in my initial stages of development for trading in simulation to get hang of my methodology. Market Replay feature in ninja is quite interesting. It is easy to use s/w and above all, free for simulating your strategies and practicing order execution.

Hope that helps. I hope you have pleasant experience with Ninja.

Thanks.
Phantom.