Non-directional Option Strategies for Stocks and Indexes

toughard

Well-Known Member
#21
Certain risk you will have to take in trading. Hopping that market exactly will close where you have the best profit with your long call BFL is like want to be sure to make money with a directional trade. As you know: Both is not the way we trade: Either options nor futures. So how to reduce risk and increase profit in option trading? Here you have to be clear about the amount you want to risk for any option trade you do. You can do this by taking a spread, which defines the amount you risk. Or you can define this by the money you spend to buy an option with the idea that this money is the amount you will risk. So this option could go to zero and it not would hurt you. If you want to set a stop loss on an option, lets say 20 for an option you bought for 70, that will be a bit more difficult, as there are many variables which influence the price of an option. In such a case you could place a limit sell order by your broker for this option. An other way is to set a level on the underlying of those option as a stop loss level, on which you will sell your option. So if you are wrong, your loss will be limited. But probably this is not the only problem you face. What about managing an existing option position in the live market? How strong are your skills for such kind of trading? If you have good skills for this, then most of your arguments above, which show some how unsureness about your live trading, will have no more value. As we can leg in any option strategy in many different ways (Was posted in my thread), we can change the outcome of any of those option strategies. So then comments like: This is not good idea or this those not change much and so on suddenly are gone. Now have a look at the following, which was done through leg in and you will see the different between professional option trading and basic, low profit option trading. And yes, this not always will be successful like every thing in trading does not work all the time 100%. People who tell they always have a 100% success rate are people who not trade in the real market. But we can trade like this with low risk entry strategies and then do what is needed to bring the trade over the zero line, which is the different of having a higher risk of any loss (when being under the zero line like your BFL profile shows) or a very low risk to zero loss in this trades.

Now I hope this will give you some more confidence in your style of option trading, which is related to option strategy trading. Many other styles can be done with options, but you choosed this way. It is not the most easiest way and best would be to have a real mentor which would lead you in your live trading day by day for a few weeks. You may try a mentor program from a serious mentor or option trading company.

I also hope it will motivate you to really define your risk profile a bit in an other way. I not will further post here in this thread as many other things are posted in my thread and in many other threads. So take care dear friend and all the best :)

All what you now will see are trades which are done by legin in different ways. Some times with three legs, some times with one leg and then converted into non directional trades. All strategies are finally over the zero line, which means where ever market moves, there is profit. The biggest risk on all of those trades where the moments the market was entered with the first leg/s. And the risk was always in advance defined by the amount of money who could be lost on this entry. (You not will find any link in the net about such kind of synthetic option trading shown below)

Long call broken wing BFL: http://i61.tinypic.com/2jdjb0p.png

Synthetic long iron BFL: http://i57.tinypic.com/mhx9nd.png

Synthetic long broken wing iron BFL: http://i62.tinypic.com/bdw3o2.png
Its amazing to see the all the wings above the zero line!!!!

can you give me the value that you have taken for each legs for pic...

thanks
 

toughard

Well-Known Member
#22
Certain risk you will have to take in trading. Hopping that market exactly will close where you have the best profit with your long call BFL is like want to be sure to make money with a directional trade. As you know: Both is not the way we trade: Either options nor futures. So how to reduce risk and increase profit in option trading? Here you have to be clear about the amount you want to risk for any option trade you do. You can do this by taking a spread, which defines the amount you risk. Or you can define this by the money you spend to buy an option with the idea that this money is the amount you will risk. So this option could go to zero and it not would hurt you. If you want to set a stop loss on an option, lets say 20 for an option you bought for 70, that will be a bit more difficult, as there are many variables which influence the price of an option. In such a case you could place a limit sell order by your broker for this option. An other way is to set a level on the underlying of those option as a stop loss level, on which you will sell your option. So if you are wrong, your loss will be limited. But probably this is not the only problem you face. What about managing an existing option position in the live market? How strong are your skills for such kind of trading? If you have good skills for this, then most of your arguments above, which show some how unsureness about your live trading, will have no more value. As we can leg in any option strategy in many different ways (Was posted in my thread), we can change the outcome of any of those option strategies. So then comments like: This is not good idea or this those not change much and so on suddenly are gone. Now have a look at the following, which was done through leg in and you will see the different between professional option trading and basic, low profit option trading. And yes, this not always will be successful like every thing in trading does not work all the time 100%. People who tell they always have a 100% success rate are people who not trade in the real market. But we can trade like this with low risk entry strategies and then do what is needed to bring the trade over the zero line, which is the different of having a higher risk of any loss (when being under the zero line like your BFL profile shows) or a very low risk to zero loss in this trades.

Now I hope this will give you some more confidence in your style of option trading, which is related to option strategy trading. Many other styles can be done with options, but you choosed this way. It is not the most easiest way and best would be to have a real mentor which would lead you in your live trading day by day for a few weeks. You may try a mentor program from a serious mentor or option trading company.

I also hope it will motivate you to really define your risk profile a bit in an other way. I not will further post here in this thread as many other things are posted in my thread and in many other threads. So take care dear friend and all the best :)

All what you now will see are trades which are done by legin in different ways. Some times with three legs, some times with one leg and then converted into non directional trades. All strategies are finally over the zero line, which means where ever market moves, there is profit. The biggest risk on all of those trades where the moments the market was entered with the first leg/s. And the risk was always in advance defined by the amount of money who could be lost on this entry. (You not will find any link in the net about such kind of synthetic option trading shown below)

Long call broken wing BFL: http://i61.tinypic.com/2jdjb0p.png

Synthetic long iron BFL: http://i57.tinypic.com/mhx9nd.png

Synthetic long broken wing iron BFL: http://i62.tinypic.com/bdw3o2.png
somatung you have misinterpreted my 100% statement please read it again.... my 100% statement is not told to as 100 out 100 trades are profitable... please read it carefully again....

http://www.traderji.com/trading-diary/88670-nifty-options-trading-raj-459.html#post961415

judging some is not a good idea:p... anyway if one can judge that some one is paper trading for 2years them its pure:rofl:

I am still waiting to for your strike prices which you used to generate those payout diagrams... please share the values, and time that you have constructed these trades...

now don't think like a kid that i am pulling your leg!!! a BIG NO !!!!!
I am NOT pulling your leg but just wanted know.... if you really did it:cheers:


see I am not judging you!!! asking you before i take call....
 
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#23
Dear Friends,

Option traders understand the importance of IVs, especially in volatile markets. I have taken advantage of IV as well as have been burnt by it to underestimate its impact on profitability.

I am sharing some of my findings. I am new to live trading so my findings could be obvious to experienced traders.

1. IVs drop after major announcements and results if they are in line with market expectations. E.g. recently after the RBI policy decision on April 1, IVs dropped. If the results are unexpected, IVs may increase in the direction the market trends but mostly they will drop.

2. Call IVs generally increase if there is a breakout. After a decisive breakout, if there is a resistance which the underlying is unable to cross, call IVs decrease while put IVs may increase. IV changes also depend on the current market situation. E.g. if there is a big fall in Nifty, IV will increase. But if the market rallies back next day, IVs will decrease.

3. Vice versa of point 2 is applicable for put IVs.

4. If no major announcements are pending on weekends, IVs drop on Friday. This observation may be amplified due to extra time decay which happens on Friday.

5. Arbitrage free positions are maintained by change in futures premium.

6. Stark differences in IVs can help in spotting cheaper options and may result in arbitrage positions

These findings can be biased due to small sample of observations.

Few questions:

Are there market makers who provide liquidity in the options market? Is there any model being used by these market makers to determine IVs?
Is IV a function of demand/supply, or is it the opinion of market makers, or is it based on mathematical models?
What is the correlation between near month, mid month, and far month IVs? It should be around 1 in my opinion. Further, does 1 point increase in IV in near month result in 1 point increase in mid and far months and vice versa?
Are change in IVs coupled with open interest, a good indicator for underlying direction, or should a contrarian approach be followed?

Request experienced traders to share their views.
 
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#24
Can anyone comment on the various players involved in Indian option market. Who are the most active participants?

1. Hedge funds
2. Institutional investors
3. Retail investors
4. Proprietary trading houses
5. Brokerages

NSE website lists the participants as Client, FII, DII, Pro. DIIs are not active in the derivatives segment. What do these codes represent? Can any meaningful information be derived from open interest of these codes?

Further, how does one determine if options have been written by weak hands or strong hands? This information might be useful as one may not want to go against strong hands.

Request experienced traders to share their wisdom.
 
#25
Dear Friends,

I am planning on doing some data analysis using open interests, volumes, high low etc. so as to substantiate strategies with historical probabilities. Request you to guide me towards existing research to avoid effort wastage.

If anyone wants to share the burden of research, you are welcome to do so.
 
#27
I am sharing findings on VIX.

day Increase Decrease
Mon 176 77
Tue 107 149
Wed 117 132
Thu 96 160
Fri 112 137

This list illustrates that on most Mondays VIX increases, while most Thursday VIX decreases. Possible explanation could be that most theta decay for the weekend occurs on Thursday. Good day to short vega and theta:). These results do look statistically significant. on Monday, VIX increases to slightly compensate for the time decay.

Overall 612 days of VIX increase whereas 660 days of VIX decrease. No significance.

Pls guide on how to post tables
 
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toughard

Well-Known Member
#30
I am sharing findings on VIX.

day Increase Decrease
Mon 176 77
Tue 107 149
Wed 117 132
Thu 96 160
Fri 112 137

This list illustrates that on most Mondays VIX increases, while most Thursday VIX decreases. Possible explanation could be that most theta decay for the weekend occurs on Thursday. Good day to short vega and theta:). These results do look statistically significant. on Monday, VIX increases to slightly compensate for the time decay.

Overall 612 days of VIX increase whereas 660 days of VIX decrease. No significance.

Pls guide on how to post tables
Thursday Good day to short vega and theta means to say that its a good time to create a debit spread? and exit by friday EOD?
yes rise in vix rise in premium but why means vix is non directional index na... so if you get caught on a wrong side so my 1st question?
 
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