New Perspective - Day Trading

[MMN]

just one more thing... in trading training world its tricky.. be sure to check trainers actual trading performance before u decide to take that service.... u want to learn from somebody who makes most money from trading not from training

Personal question -You may choose to answer or ignore I am fine...

Would you mind sharing your journey in becoming a consistently successful trader... challenges you came across and how you addressed it..

Any professional help you sought...what factors you looked at before zero in on one specific professional for help

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[Schatz]

ok I will not get into my life story on a public forum .. but i will tell you i did right and what i did wrong

Wrongs:

1. I jumped into trading without understanding the difficulty level (Nobody should ever do that)
2. I had no idea what trading is all about when i started
3. Had no idea what to study. Did not try to figure out from online forums like you r doing.. Hence spent a lot of time reading outdated and not so useful stuffs
4. Chasing illusive double digit returns
5. Taking too many counter trend trades
6. May be too stubborn to accept that I need help and cant figure out myself
7. Did not have a water tight trading plan.. Too flexible.

Right:

1. Had solid risk mgmt in place from day 1. Hence not incurred much of draw down
2. I was not gambling. I approached it always mathematically and scientifically
3. Some of my trades were making money where I was aiming for moderate returns.. Kept me alive.
4. At some point i thought it is not possible but then i gathered myself together and realized that focus on the working trades and grow
5. I realized what kind of trades give me comfort and sticking to that kind only
6. I worked on develop trading system, tested them, and try to trade as per my trading framework.. I still fall prey to psychological challenges
7. Live to trade another day... Never risking too much in one trade or one day .. various metrics to determine capital to be deployed to various strategies and evaluate using performance metrics and risk metrics.

In short, treat it like a business and plan ur business first!!

 

[MMN]

Being a full time trader is an extremely difficult task. There r ppl who have been consistently making money for few months/years suddenly blow up their accounts. But first let me correct some misconceptions:
1. U cant make 20% in a month and sustain. It is impossible. Lets be realistic. Set your target about 3% after cost... even the best guys would struggle to make more than 5%.
2. Don't take too much leverage. It does not help in long run. Its fine to take leverage as per overnight margin... Dont fancy MIS thing and all.. those r products to benefit brokers ..
3. U need sizable capital to trade... 10K is way too small to even try trading... u r just wasting ur time and that small amount of money as well... and that is why probably u r nt making any progress.. just imagine 3% of 10k is how much...300 rs.... can u spend so many hours to make 300 rs in a month ..
4. then again before committing any serious capital... u need to study the market...backtest and have a proof of concept to risk ur hard earned money.. perhaps open a virtual/paper trading account to test ur trading ideas.
now face some reality .. r u educated enough to even think about trading full time... u must have done 15-18-20 years of education to land up in a decent job... do u think u can make it to full time trading with no mentor and just few years under ur belt .. these r important considerations ...
when i say "you".. i mean any of us...

if u cant follow your own rules... this is not the place for u ... either quit breaking rules or quit trading...
risk only that much amount of money which does not matter to u when u start.. so that money is not part of ur decision making process..... just tell urself onething "I will do the right thing and dont think about money".. take it some pts system.. u gain or lose pts..
and dont trade events at beginner stage

You bought a very good point here.

"I will do the right thing and dont think about money".. take it some pts system.. u gain or lose pts..

This is relevant when it comes to Nifty, Bank Nifty...But when you trade stocks this phenomenon might not hold good..one point of one stock might not be same as one point of other stock...if you are trading one stock only that's a different case...which is not the case with me.

So, Just wanted to check with you, if you know of any concept, technique or tool which can help us detatch ourselves from money n only keep us focussed with the process of trading..

Asking this question as our brain need a very strong reason to go in the direction of thinking the process of trading is more important than the result of invldividual trades. Our minds are hardwired to think about money and a very difficult preposition to overlook that..Hope I am making sense here

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[Schatz]

i dont understand why u think so... first of all , if u trade multiple stocks u need to normalize and decide on size which is of equivalent size because u trade shares ...study ur stocks, figure out ur avg risk and fix position sizing... as simple as that

p.s.: I have some idea for u .. see if it fits ur style.. limit number of instruments to less than 3 .. and focus on it... FYI i trade mostly 1 instrument ..

 

[MMN]

I trade Max two at any given point in time unless my Amygdala got hijacked and I don't have control over me...thats a different issue..but I wanted to know is there a way we detatch ourselves from money and focus just on the process of trading...

Reason am asking is when I increase the capital it's impacting me...am sure it's the pain associated with losing money impacting my performance

If we could reach the level where am detached from money and can focus on just the process
Stock quantity/ lots will just be numbers..

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[MMN]

i dont understand why u think so... first of all , if u trade multiple stocks u need to normalize and decide on size which is of equivalent size because u trade shares ...study ur stocks, figure out ur avg risk and fix position sizing... as simple as that

p.s.: I have some idea for u .. see if it fits ur style.. limit number of instruments to less than 3 .. and focus on it... FYI i trade mostly 1 instrument ..

I trade Max two at any given point in time unless my Amygdala got hijacked and I don't have control over me...thats a different issue..but I wanted to know is there a way we detatch ourselves from money and focus just on the process of trading...

Reason am asking is when I increase the capital it's impacting me...am sure it's the pain associated with losing money impacting my performance

If we could reach the level where am detached from money and can focus on just the process
Stock quantity/ lots will just be numbers..

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[mohan.sic]

Sure

Background - belong to middle class family...seen a lot of financial struggle in childhood....now I am financially stable..working in a firm...which has different working time than trading hours...Age late 30's

Trading Experience- started in 2014....have been a part time trader since then ...trade from 2 hours a day to 5 Hours ....took a sabbatical for 6 months to an year in between for 2-3 times due to disappointment with trading performance

Trading profile. Day trading...Boom and Bust...not been consistently

I make 20-25 percent in a month with small capital of 10k with 8x leverage....the moment I increase my capital loose entire profit in couple of days....the cycle is never ending..

Trading system - descretionary with set of rules...which I tend to break

1. I break rules when I turn my profit into losses
2. I break the rules when the losses are beyond my threshold
3. When I get into station syndrome
4. Any haphazard big move not in my favour

I primarily make losses when
1. I get into fast moving stocks which has some event attached to it....I don't want to but somehow I end up getting into it.


Do let me know if you have any other questions
My goal is to become full time trader someday hanging on trying to create a new version of myself via learning everyday in the hope I will find light at the end of the tunnel.

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MMN,

At late 30's it is very good if you start investing in quality stocks and focus on retirement planning.
your small cap of 10k's which you lose regularly can make a good corpus if invested wisely from now.

If you start trading at very early age like mid 20's, you will have enough time of 10 yrs to realize the mistake and come out of that tunnel and start in a new direction. But experimenting at late 30's is no good. Because when you realize, you may not be in a age to start again in other directions.

Please don't waste your time at this stage in this dream of becoming successful trader...

 

[MMN]

MMN,

At late 30's it is very good if you start investing in quality stocks and focus on retirement planning.
your small cap of 10k's which you lose regularly can make a good corpus if invested wisely from now.

If you start trading at very early age like mid 20's, you will have enough time of 10 yrs to realize the mistake and come out of that tunnel and start in a new direction. But experimenting at late 30's is no good. Because when you realize, you may not be in a age to start again in other directions.

Please don't waste your time at this stage in this dream of becoming successful trader...

So, If I am reading you correctly it takes approximately 10 years to experiment and correct mistakes...is 10 years higher end of the range or Max time before you can say it's not for me or midpoint...10 years is that not too much...

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[mohan.sic]

So, If I am reading you correctly it takes approximately 10 years to experiment and correct mistakes...is 10 years higher end of the range or Max time before you can say it's not for me or midpoint...10 years is that not too much...

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I used the word 10 years to emphasize that its not a activity of short or medium duration.
There are many people who don't realize even after 15 years.

We must understand and realize the fact that there are thousands of traders ( speculators) who are far more educated, intelligent, equipped than us with given enormous efforts but failed to find the light at the end of the tunnel. Now based on this we must evaluate the possibility and probability if we can do this.

In simple, If my net worth is 3 crore, I can speculate with 10% of it which is 30 lakhs and can call myself as a full time trader. No problem in that and this works with a reasonable strategy. But if my net worth is 30 lakhs, I should not put this full amount in market and become full time speculating trader. This wont work with the same strategy used in first case. Because the leverage ( net worth : trading capital) we have, will impact the success/failure of a professional trader.

And there is no point to turn as full time trader with any trading capital less than 30 lakhs.
edit: Even this 30 lakhs we cannot direct towards speculation. Most of it should be towards short term investing and may be 10-20 % of it for day trading with the leverage.

 

[Schatz]

Instead of searching for global answers from the fellow members i would suggest that u urself give answer to ur problems and let others add value to it.... Trading journey is usually painful one ...there is no set time that when that pain will end if at all... many trading legends have blown up their entire accounts multiple times... but the many traders who have blown up - never made it... blowing up accounts does not lead to success but it precedes success .. but then most of them have done it in their 20s... since u r in late 30s i would say structure urself .. dont blow up..please!!