how to *act* disciplined in market? help needed!

toocool

Well-Known Member
#21
It all started as fascination towards markets in late 2010...

I am more like a random trader, usually some intraday trades occasionally positional trades.

you say you are a random trader , so thats very bad , you really think being a random trader would be fruitful ? the problem is you dont have a plan , you dont have a system ,you dont even have enough experience on your hand , 1st thing you must do is respect the markets , and take it seriously , 2nd thing is you at this point are in no position to trade because you do not have a plan of what you need to do , then how can you trade? , you thought that markets is so easy to make money that you will get away with random trading but you cannot, stop trading immediately, and start finding a system which suits your personality , decide your time frame for trading , intraday or positional, swing or whatever , suits your lifestyle as you have a job to attend to ,too, after you decided timfreame you must find a systems i told earlier , system shouldnt be too complicated it should be easy to understand with clear entry ,exits ,stop losses defined , with 0 guessing required (i however do not trade on system but thats me , everybody is different) i cannot even tell you a system because i am not a system guy , i am a discretionary trader. the best i can tell you is find a a way to get into markets when markets are in contraction mode prices are in a range , because after contraction comes expansion ,and thats when money is made, without any way /method of trading your innerself will always be confused , when you get a system and be satisfied with it after backtesting it , do paper trading for 2-3 months minimum get it practiced like its your second nature ,you cannot be second guessing your system , it must be part of your personalty ,just like you brake the car when something is ahead of you without thinking, after that start with real trading with least possible position size

My expectation towards market actually is nothing :)
I find markets as fascinating and one of the toughest problems to crack.
and I think it won't hurt if I happen to crack the code and become richer ;)

you actually want quite a lot from market , not only that you think markets are a problem which needs to be solved by you ...........but you do not know that markets are not a problem , its just as it is , its natural movement , when you trade in the markets the problem is you yourself , stop seeing problem in the markets and start discovering ,what you lack to be a successful trader , markets has not invited you to find a solution , you have gate crashed into the markets because you want money and some emotional satisfaction that you are a solution , but the problem is that you yourself are a problem

I don't have a backtested system except some rules for trading.\

even i do not have a backtested system but i have a mental system of some kind , i watch patterns and higher high and higher lows and trend , if you do not have any plan of trading how can you expect to do good?

I listened to 'disciplined trader' a year before and again a month before, so twice.
I converted text into mp3 with textaloudmp3 so it will take only 3 days max to listen a typical book.

I don't depend on markets for bread am software engineer by profession.

listen to it much much more and also listen to "the trading in the zone" by same author ,twice in 2 years is not good enough , you are not doing hardwork required for the success in the markets , you think you are smart and 2 times is enough , that means you are looking for easy money , thats a dangerous thought inside your sub conscious mind . there is a saying

"it takes a lot of efforts to be effortless "

and when you read it /listen it , do not just pretend that you have understood it ...........i know you have very very false notions about the markets about its manipulations and gaps and what not ............forget everything you know about markets ............start with clean slate , make Mark Douglas your virtual Guru , he is the best psychologist in the markets , surrender to him ,literally, i have recently read both the books , both are related to each other , if you find its boring to listen multiple times , then stop your dreams about being in the markets . you have to make very very profound changes in your thinking and beliefs to be a successful trader ..............are you upto it? are you willing to change ? the answer will decide your future in the markets



What I think about markets?
like a typical newbie I tremendously underestimated the work needed to succeed in markets at the start!
My thought about market has been constantly evolving and I have been maintaining a journal.
Here is a small snippet from my journal each line is a separate topic on its own...
Code:
Support and Resistance is enough!
Discovering hedging and optionality
Orderflow and time compression 
Expectation and buying hay stack
Spikology - how options price moves in spikes
Traps of early entry trades
Big R trades during expiration & big news days
Understanding Position Sizing
Understanding Scenario planning and failing it to follow only 1% of time.
Position Sizing Aha: We need huge chunk of money in RESERVE mode (75%)
Understanding Streaks/Drawdowns and diversification effects on them
Understanding Forced Liquidation
Understanding Anticipation
Understanding the power of small position sizing
Understanding Parrondos Paradox
Understanding 'Focusing matters'
Keeping track of mistakes in R
and I have been recording my trades too... The journal is getting fatter and fatter but my wallet has not!

i am a lazy person and a very lazy writer , i tried to write journals but i couldnt , its just not my personality to write maybe but writing is good , the best traders do write journals do not stop writing , i may not even understand 90% of what you may have written , but i think your basic understanding of the markets is flawed , in the sense that you think markets are manipulated , why would you be in a markets when you know that its manipulated ?

why would you go to a restaurant which is unpredictable in the quality of the food it serves ??

why would you go on a bridge which has cracks in its walls and you have a belief that it may collapse anytime ?
i hope i could be of some help:)
 

onlinegtrash

Well-Known Member
#22
Thanks toocool!

You are right... the thing that's keeping me from becoming a successful trader is not market its me.

When I said 'random trader' I don't mean to trade randomly, I meant that I don't have any monthly profit goals or something... currently am trying to follow some 'process goals' and am far from a professional trader, atleast as of now.

As far as 'manipulation', I prefer to use the word strategy and was trying to come up with a possible strategy based on volume disparities of futures and options market in that thread about 'how gap ups/downs created' thread. In that thread I was looking for how a professional in SGX would value index futures when NSE is on holiday (eg: Oct 2) or not even started to trade. I was looking for some kind of inter market correlations to determine SGX Nifty futures value in such occasions... but the thread turned into 'are markets manipulated?' thread ! As a matter of fact whether a market is manipulated or not...doesn't even matter IMO for a trader, its all strategy and following a winning strategy is what traders do! Even if markets are manipulated it can't last longer, fundamentals rule over longer time period. So there is no such thing as manipulation except temporary noise and traders doing their thing with their strategies.

will go in practice mode... and will read the books as you have suggested!
Thanks for your input!
 

vishal7176

Well-Known Member
#23
How to control MIND ,in front of trading terminal.

about myself - i am scalper . i trade 100-200 trades per day. i work with company on profit sharing basis.
i trade on basis of screen reading ...recently jusst watching charts ...butt base of trade in only screen reading. my trading style is jusst buy /sell, sell/buy....nothing else.

i work in this profession in last 4 yr.

About my PROBLEM:-

I Trade very fast, whenever i take some loss , i want to stop my trading , but in front of screen i dont control myself . and i trade with randomly and create more loss....




(i know everything ...if i trade continously i will loose more money ......butt huge gap between knowing & acting, which I am not able to cross )

i am really fed up , i want solution for that .....please ...give some advice ....now i am totally blank ......

every time whenever i loose money ...i am out of control ....
 

Vertigo_1985

Well-Known Member
#24
How to control MIND ,in front of trading terminal.

about myself - i am scalper . i trade 100-200 trades per day. i work with company on profit sharing basis.
i trade on basis of screen reading ...recently jusst watching charts ...butt base of trade in only screen reading. my trading style is jusst buy /sell, sell/buy....nothing else.

i work in this profession in last 4 yr.

About my PROBLEM:-

I Trade very fast, whenever i take some loss , i want to stop my trading , but in front of screen i dont control myself . and i trade with randomly and create more loss....




(i know everything ...if i trade continously i will loose more money ......butt huge gap between knowing & acting, which I am not able to cross )

i am really fed up , i want solution for that .....please ...give some advice ....now i am totally blank ......

every time whenever i loose money ...i am out of control ....
y not ask your company for a mentor ? howz ur overall trading going on ?
 

vishal7176

Well-Known Member
#25
@ vertigo ...


actually company is not intrested this type of problem ....they dont help me ...cause of this is my individual problem .....

my trading is NOT BAD ....NOT GOOD manner ....last four month is only COST-TO-COST , not earn single ruppes earn .
one day i get 7k , second day get 5k ...thrid day get 8k .......bUTT forth day ...i loose 15-20k .....

then whole week hard .....vanish in only few minute....


want HELP .....

Really frustrated.....think to GIVE UP .
 

sudoku1

Well-Known Member
#26
I think I understand markets well but I have a big problem with discipline.

I know exactly what to do but I end up passive or actively start making all known mistakes!

Its slightly bizarre for eg:

When I see my trade start faltering and turning into loss,
I *know* I should exit or atleast I should lighten up the position but
I find it hard and often fail to cut the losses.

I *know* one should cut the losses instead of praying and hoping but
I fail to do it when losses start to mount up and eventually bail with huge loss!

I *know* I should not revenge trade but after losing I go 'all in' to recoup the losses
ofcourse risking beyond feasible level will always end in loss its simple math.

I find a huge gap between knowing & acting, which I am not able to cross.

whats worse, I have even read 'disciplined trader' and I *understand* things
(such as pre-planning trade, defining risk prior entry, following trade plan/MM blah blah) but
I find it hard to act on those understanding.

well you may ask, if you know what's right then why the hell you can't go ahead and do it?
am asking the same question to myself and other successful/learning traders with answers!

In the heat of the moment, it seems my logical brain shuts down and I become logic blind!
How can one avoid such 'logic blindness' ?

I can see this problem in me and others but have no solution so far!
This situation seems to have another parallel, a drug addict who understands his addiction but have no power to overcome it!
our conscious mind receives abt 7 billion bits per second of signals frm around us out of wch only 2 million bits r filtered n transmitted 2 our subconscious mind.
d page u r seeing, reading now, d voice of traffic,humans r constantly hitting ur conscious mind now,but u see dat only valid signals r picked up n d rest r discarded.
wen u r reading my post, ur subconscious mind is scanning d data according 2 ur belief system constructed all thru dis years since u wer a child.

ur problem > u fail 2 act as per ur belief system n ur mind becomes numb.
u strt a revenge against d mkt.
u wnt ur money back.

why u fail 2 react ?
no matter u know wat 2 do at times like u undergo or tons of advice u may get 2 do dis n dat bt....u wil never b able 2 overcome ur problem jst by reading or listening.

do u know dat its nt u bt ur emotions wch don't let u act wen ur conscious mind wants 2 ?
emotions r nothing bt a signaling system transmitted by our sub conscious mind n remind us frm time 2 time dat der is a problem n u shud solve.once u solve ur problem , d signals stop n u feel happy...bt wat wen v don't pay attention 2 d signals ? imagine u in a car n d dashboard fuel indicator signaling reserve fuel ? wat wil u do ? yes , u wil start seeing a nearby fuel station 2 fill up. now wat if u ignore d signal n keep moving towards ur destination? u wil hav 2 spend ur day on d roadside !!
in d same way, by nt being able 2 take proper action n d conflicts arising frm dat action is leaving u frustrated.

d possible causes >
> as a child, did u lack confidence at home or school n u wer always anxious abt d outcome of exams or an event related 2 u?
> u may b having low self esteem among ur friends or people around u always feared abt taking a lead in communicating strangers ..
> rejections also play an imp role in destroying our self confidence...wer u at times rejected in ur life incidents like a job, relations,by friends,family ,etc ?
> wer u always bullied by ur classmate n u felt helpless ?
> do u blame ur life or smbody wen smthing goes wrong on a particular day ?

d abv is a sample list n nt necessary dat u may hav xperienced all of dem.bt remember dat d actions v take while reacting 2 d abv causes form our belief system wch 80 % of times is false.
n d mor d things r repeated, d more dey r associated wid our false beliefs.
now suppose dat u always feared ghosts as a child bcoz u heard stories frm ur friends , media ? going forward it wil become ur false belief n so wenevr u r alone in darkness or wenevr sm1 told u an incident abt darkness or horror , ur subconscious mind wil conect it wid ur acquired belief system n u wil justify it as right.

so d point wch I wnt 2 highlite here is > take sm time alone in a quiet place n recal ur life events wen u wer affected badly n d type of emotions u felt.den recal how u reacted . emotions wch u r xperiencing now r d results of d actions wch u tuk in ur past .

now d gud news is dat contrary 2 d beliefs , v can 100 % change our false belief system . jst try 2 unlearn n strt acquiring logic beliefs . remember ...d mor confident u bcm, mor powerful u gt n u see challenges as oputunities.

solve d emotional problems n I gurantee 100 % u wil see a sea change in urself.
only thing u shud hav is a need 2 show urself d way...build it n see fr urself !:)
 
Last edited:

TraderRavi

low risk profile
#27
@ vertigo ...


actually company is not intrested this type of problem ....they dont help me ...cause of this is my individual problem .....

my trading is NOT BAD ....NOT GOOD manner ....last four month is only COST-TO-COST , not earn single ruppes earn .
one day i get 7k , second day get 5k ...thrid day get 8k .......bUTT forth day ...i loose 15-20k .....

then whole week hard .....vanish in only few minute....


want HELP .....

Really frustrated.....think to GIVE UP .
last 4 months cost to cost , wat about previous 3 & 1/2 years ?
 

TraderRavi

low risk profile
#29
@ ravi

make moneyy ..........not lots of BUTT ....Living on trading ...its my full time work
brother dont get disappointed , if you are earning previously, analyse the difference between then and now, wat changed etc.....
 

Vertigo_1985

Well-Known Member
#30
@ vertigo ...


actually company is not intrested this type of problem ....they dont help me ...cause of this is my individual problem .....

my trading is NOT BAD ....NOT GOOD manner ....last four month is only COST-TO-COST , not earn single ruppes earn .
one day i get 7k , second day get 5k ...thrid day get 8k .......bUTT forth day ...i loose 15-20k .....

then whole week hard .....vanish in only few minute....


want HELP .....

Really frustrated.....think to GIVE UP .
First of all don't think about quitting buddy, you have the knowledge, experience and skill. It's not going to be easy to overcome the problem but you can do it.

Most probably you are revenge trading. You have few losses and then in order to recover those you throw your plan out of window and the result is a disaster.

Can you answer following questions :-
1. whats your trading style ?
2. What's your plan for successive losses in a row ? do you change scrip or stop trading ?
3. Are these loses after multiple days of winning ?
4. Please analyze the chain of events that leads to the huge losses and post it here.

must reads - mark douglas trading in the zone, Brett N. Steenbarger The Daily Trading Coach.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads