General Trading Chat
- Thread starter timepass
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@vivektrader
All these are fancy nomenclature as @timepass mentioned. Even with no leverage, short term trading and long term trading are equally risky. Leverage is a factor/tool that allows you to trade multiple stocks with the same capital at the same time.
When someone is investing, (s)he is also looking at returns in terms of dividends & bonuses. Mostly all the shares a person has would have been taken at a steep discount or for free. It is then, in the true sense, a person need never sell her/his shares for life - and thus remain invested!
Till such time a person is just a trader on a longer timeframe.
All these are fancy nomenclature as @timepass mentioned. Even with no leverage, short term trading and long term trading are equally risky. Leverage is a factor/tool that allows you to trade multiple stocks with the same capital at the same time.
When someone is investing, (s)he is also looking at returns in terms of dividends & bonuses. Mostly all the shares a person has would have been taken at a steep discount or for free. It is then, in the true sense, a person need never sell her/his shares for life - and thus remain invested!
Till such time a person is just a trader on a longer timeframe.
Bhai, long term requires you to put in higher capital, thus increasing the risk in terms of volume. Usually a day trader can lose only as much as 100% of his account (unless there is a "technical glitch"). The heartburn from the losses is the same, either way.
We have many examples of sterling scrips which burnt a hole in the investors' pants... Rcom, RNRL, SATYAM, TaMo, Unitech, JP Associates... all index scrips, all highly recommended at some point of their existence. Even Reliance came to be known as a wealth destroyer till 2 years ago.
We have many examples of sterling scrips which burnt a hole in the investors' pants... Rcom, RNRL, SATYAM, TaMo, Unitech, JP Associates... all index scrips, all highly recommended at some point of their existence. Even Reliance came to be known as a wealth destroyer till 2 years ago.
In that case it should be as easy to find a profitable day trader as it is to find a profitable investor. Why that is not so?
The second reason is 'time' (first being leverage) which is against a daytrader.
Markets are relatively more forgiving as far as 'Time' and 'timing' is concerned in investing.
As I said earlier the above is my belief and understanding, you can differ from that in every possible way.
Vivek
The second reason is 'time' (first being leverage) which is against a daytrader.
Markets are relatively more forgiving as far as 'Time' and 'timing' is concerned in investing.
As I said earlier the above is my belief and understanding, you can differ from that in every possible way.
Vivek
A number of companies and their shares become total waste and cease to even get traded on the exchanges.
But a reasonably diversified portfolio say of just 10-12 large cap companies held diligently over a period of 15-20 years can make a lay person a handsome amount of money, even if 3-4 companies become 0.
To close my arguments,
Let me say this, if anyone like me, who doesn't understand markets or trading well, simply mimics someone like ST sir in choosing my set of portfolio companies, and hold, I can make enough money for myself.
But I can't mimic him in trading, simply can't, howsoever hard I wish or try.
I have lost a lot in all forms of trading and made up by just doing what I said in the line above...
So I continue to differ.....
Vivek
But a reasonably diversified portfolio say of just 10-12 large cap companies held diligently over a period of 15-20 years can make a lay person a handsome amount of money, even if 3-4 companies become 0.
To close my arguments,
Let me say this, if anyone like me, who doesn't understand markets or trading well, simply mimics someone like ST sir in choosing my set of portfolio companies, and hold, I can make enough money for myself.
But I can't mimic him in trading, simply can't, howsoever hard I wish or try.
I have lost a lot in all forms of trading and made up by just doing what I said in the line above...
So I continue to differ.....
Vivek
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Currently being a trader (sort of), I can use timing techniques (like Demark's) to enter investment positions at more opportune time (capital is coming from my full time job)
Ultimately when (and if) I am consistently profitable trader, will create a continuous stream of capital (for few years) which will go to investing .
Won't do 'magazmaari' of trading my entire life, rather would settle down in some hill station or a beach house
, while checking portfolio off and on.
That's the plan
Edit: God has given me a lot, so philanthropy is a continuous part of the above plan (in whatever little way I can)
Vivek
Ultimately when (and if) I am consistently profitable trader, will create a continuous stream of capital (for few years) which will go to investing .
Won't do 'magazmaari' of trading my entire life, rather would settle down in some hill station or a beach house
, while checking portfolio off and on.That's the plan
Edit: God has given me a lot, so philanthropy is a continuous part of the above plan (in whatever little way I can)
Vivek
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All of this is fine, but trading is not necessarily more risky if you have an edge. Trading with large capital (on say HTF) is probably not riskier and is not something that should be avoided.
Equity markets drift upwards with decent returns. Buy and hold investing in diversified list of stocks, esp etf or Mutual Fund, is obviously easier to do than finding an edge and executing. ( Even investing can be hard in bear markets when people will generally throw out their position and run ).
What is an edge ? Its slight tilt in probabilities. So same as investing , if you risk small per trade, say 1-2%, and take many many trades then the edge will play out eventually.
But if you risk all in one trade, then you will blow up. Same with investing. Some types of options and similar derivatives can give steady income for long time until the day of reckoning comes and you need to pay. This is what seemed to have happened to him. With 30 years of experience he probably was aware that this can happen and still gambled on other people's money. Yes maybe he made a mistake but for how long has he been making this mistake to get his commission ? People killing themselves is obviously bad but investors do that too ...
Anyway, both have their place. I am mostly an investor now and hopefully will move decent portion to trading over next 1-2 years .. And in future we can always stop day trading and say trade on Daily by giving say 1 hour a day.
Equity markets drift upwards with decent returns. Buy and hold investing in diversified list of stocks, esp etf or Mutual Fund, is obviously easier to do than finding an edge and executing. ( Even investing can be hard in bear markets when people will generally throw out their position and run ).
What is an edge ? Its slight tilt in probabilities. So same as investing , if you risk small per trade, say 1-2%, and take many many trades then the edge will play out eventually.
But if you risk all in one trade, then you will blow up. Same with investing. Some types of options and similar derivatives can give steady income for long time until the day of reckoning comes and you need to pay. This is what seemed to have happened to him. With 30 years of experience he probably was aware that this can happen and still gambled on other people's money. Yes maybe he made a mistake but for how long has he been making this mistake to get his commission ? People killing themselves is obviously bad but investors do that too ...
Anyway, both have their place. I am mostly an investor now and hopefully will move decent portion to trading over next 1-2 years .. And in future we can always stop day trading and say trade on Daily by giving say 1 hour a day.
Don’t argue with anyone.....if you select stocks with care, you won’t have Satyam,Unitech,JP Associates etc....what should matter to us is how much wealth we created in last 5 years and how much we will create in next 5 years ....and if one is making money investing why should he engage in arguments, and prove any point to anyone....it is a waste of time.....think of investors like Ramdeo Agrawal,Sanjoy Bhattacharya, Ramesh Damani And If we can follow 1/100 th of their skills we will be home in next few years.....think of how much wealth HDFC Bank,Bajaj Finance,Nestle,Hero Honda ,Eicher Motors,Page Ind created in last 5 years and try to catch few such stocks .Dont even tell anyone the size of your portfolio as it makes you no good ...we don’t compete with x day trader or Y position trader...we compete with ourselves bettering our skills and performance every year.....
Smart_trade
Smart_trade
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