Fire your tax related queries and i would get it solved!!!

[jignesh4]

CA Nikhil Sir,

I have below source of income:
Partnership firm remuneration = 30000
Income and income from F&O = 35085 (on turnover of 337200).

Can I file ITR 3 with no account case and show partnership income in schedule BP Section A-24?

One more question - I received share of 5 lac from sale of inherited property. Total sale value of property is 15 lac (cost of acquisition 3 lac). How to show this in schedule CG? What should be full value of consideration - 5 lac or 15 lac? What should be cost of acquisition - 3 lac or 1 lac on prorated basis?

Thanks in advance.

 

[canikhil]

Nikhil Sir
Can you please explain the reason behind, addition of sale value of option traded, in total turnover, when the trade is complete, I mean when both buy and sell legs has been completed.
Either TO should be the total of absolute loss and profit (as in case of futures) or total sale value of option
but why the addition of 2, when sale value already includes profit or loss of the trade .

Isnt it ridiculous
or a case of bad law and rules drafting.

Then will you agree that for futures, the total sale value of futures should be considered as turnover?

 

[canikhil]

Hi CA Nikhil Bro,
In the incometax login account, we found that they have asked for the below information. we have never traded in commodities market. But its mentioned contract of Rs10lk or more in commodities exchange. 1.What should we select for that?
2. Is STT-02 short term trading transactions?
3.Is STT-03 intraday trading transactions?

Please help. Thanks

View attachment 27215

1. Not known should be the reply

2. Yes

3. Yes

 

[traderniftybull]

Then will you agree that for futures, the total sale value of futures should be considered as turnover?

ha ha
you are stretching my words, nowhere I have discussed for futures trading
But yes, they can, if they like, (highly) paid fools are every where, in every deptt and taxation deptt is a perfect example

what I said was
1. why to include sale value premium in TO, when trade has completed both legs of sale and purchase
2. even if to include sale value premium, then why to include absolute gain and loss of the trade. Sale value already includes gain and loss of the trade, that means they are including gain and loss twice (beside cost) in calculating turnover. Isnt it ridiculous. It clearly indicates that rules makers, do not know even abc of option trading.

BTW, there is a reason to include sale value, but it should not be applied to those, who has taken both legs of trade, buy and sell.

 

[Smart_trade]

ha ha
you are stretching my words, nowhere I have discussed for futures trading
But yes, they can, if they like, (highly) paid fools are every where, in every deptt and taxation deptt is a perfect example

what I said was
1. why to include sale value premium in TO, when trade has completed both legs of sale and purchase
2. even if to include sale value premium, then why to include absolute gain and loss of the trade. Sale value already includes gain and loss of the trade, that means they are including gain and loss twice (beside cost) in calculating turnover. Isnt it ridiculous. It clearly indicates that rules makers, do not know even abc of option trading.

BTW, there is a reason to include sale value, but it should not be applied to those, who has taken both legs of trade, buy and sell.

This is as per the rules of calculating turnover recommended by a guidence note bought out by a committee set up by Institute of Chartered Accountants of India. Income Tax department nowhere officially says that they have accepted these rules ( which gives scope for manupulative practices by the assessing officers ) but generally when there are no clear rules laid down by Income Tax Dept, one goes by ICAI practices.

This committee was set up before 6-8 years when option trading mechanism was not very clear as very few people used to trade options. But now that note needs to be revisited and revised as it is unfair to options traders as gross total of profits and losses should be options turnover. Hope ICAI will revisit the issue and come out with revised note and Govt of India accepts it so that there is no ambiguity.

Practicing CAs should take it up with their institute. Traders also can request ICAI for review of the guidence note.

Smart_trade

 

[canikhil]

CA Nikhil Sir,

I have below source of income:
Partnership firm remuneration = 30000
Income and income from F&O = 35085 (on turnover of 337200).

Can I file ITR 3 with no account case and show partnership income in schedule BP Section A-24?

One more question - I received share of 5 lac from sale of inherited property. Total sale value of property is 15 lac (cost of acquisition 3 lac). How to show this in schedule CG? What should be full value of consideration - 5 lac or 15 lac? What should be cost of acquisition - 3 lac or 1 lac on prorated basis?

Thanks in advance.

ha ha
you are stretching my words, nowhere I have discussed for futures trading
But yes, they can, if they like, (highly) paid fools are every where, in every deptt and taxation deptt is a perfect example

what I said was
1. why to include sale value premium in TO, when trade has completed both legs of sale and purchase
2. even if to include sale value premium, then why to include absolute gain and loss of the trade. Sale value already includes gain and loss of the trade, that means they are including gain and loss twice (beside cost) in calculating turnover. Isnt it ridiculous. It clearly indicates that rules makers, do not know even abc of option trading.

BTW, there is a reason to include sale value, but it should not be applied to those, who has taken both legs of trade, buy and sell.

that is my exact point. If you believe sales value should be used for options, then why not for futures? I am not saying the guidance note is perfect. All I am saying is that once you disturb the hornet's nest, you don't know how it will finally settle? what if they come out with a different opinion and say that turnover should be computed at sell side of all such contracts? then will you be happy?

Also, the committee had all the information available from all over the world. They didn't have to depend only on Indian market knowledge. Options as a product has been there for decades in global markets and a very developed product at that.

 

[Rajasekaran1976]

I am taking US projects and complete them in my home. I am earning a meager 2 lakhs from it. Am I covered in IT coverage and how to pay my IT if that is the case?

 

[jignesh4]

that is my exact point. If you believe sales value should be used for options, then why not for futures? I am not saying the guidance note is perfect. All I am saying is that once you disturb the hornet's nest, you don't know how it will finally settle? what if they come out with a different opinion and say that turnover should be computed at sell side of all such contracts? then will you be happy?

Also, the committee had all the information available from all over the world. They didn't have to depend only on Indian market knowledge. Options as a product has been there for decades in global markets and a very developed product at that.

CA Nikhil Sir,

Looks like my query is missed in this conversation. Please respond.

I have below source of income:
Partnership firm remuneration = 30000
Income and income from F&O = 35085 (on turnover of 337200).

Can I file ITR 3 with no account case and show partnership income in schedule BP Section A-24?

One more question - I received share of 5 lac from sale of inherited property. Total sale value of property is 15 lac (cost of acquisition 3 lac). How to show this in schedule CG? What should be full value of consideration - 5 lac or 15 lac? What should be cost of acquisition - 3 lac or 1 lac on prorated basis?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Jignesh

 

[price&action]

Namaste respected Traderji members, I am 62 years old. Fy17-18 I did intra-day options trading. Turnover was almost 95 lakhs, and the profit was 25000 only. My income from pension is below the basic exemption limit. Under these circumstances I do not need an audit. My questions - does having a book of accounts necessary in this case ? I am finding the languages under Balance sheet and P/L of the ITR form 3 very difficult to understand. Is there a guide available on how to fill it from a trader's perspective ?

 

[price&action]

Namaste respected Traderji members, I am 62 years old. Fy17-18 I did intra-day options trading. Turnover was almost 95 lakhs, and the profit was 25000 only. My income from pension is below the basic exemption limit. Under these circumstances I do not need an audit. My questions - does having a book of accounts necessary in this case ? I am finding the languages under Balance sheet and P/L of the ITR form 3 very difficult to understand. Is there a guide available on how to fill it from a trader's perspective ?

Namaste respected Traderji members , I have found out the ITR3 format from zerodha's site but if you can help me on "Are you liable to maintain accounts as per section 44AA?" - this question. "maintain accounting records would arise if your income exceeds Rs 2.5 lakhs or gross receipts exceeds Rs 25 lakhs in any of the 3 preceding years or in the first year in case of a new business " this is what I have read. My income including pension did not exceed 2.5 lakhs in this case do I need to maintain a accounting records I do not understand the gross receipts part? If not can I use "No accounts case" of Part A-BS on the ITR form 3? Can respectable experience member help me please?