Feedback requested on viratech TA course

#1
Hi,

Viratech is conducting a TA course in Chennai on the 4th and 5th of December '04. Details can be obtained by email from [email protected]

Since a lot of the members from this form seem to have bought metastock and data feed from viratech, can you let me know a few things ?

1. For a beginner, how useful is the TA course and how understandable ?

2. Is it useful even if I decide not be buy metastock ? Or is it oriented more towards metastock only ?

3. How good a teacher is the viratech MD and is it worth the Rs7700/- (around) it is being charged ?

I will really appreciate it if somebody can let me know about this.

Thanks and Regards,
Snowy.
 
C

CreditViolet

Guest
#2
Personally I advice -Buy murphys book and read it rather than spending money on it

If u r a complete beginner it can actually be good to have somebody to tell you get through the basics but 7k is a lot of dough for that.Try to find what they will actually cover before u sign up
 

sh50

Active Member
#3
The seminar is like reading a very good book. I attended their Seminar in May. What I gained from it was knowing the importance of Key reversals and Gaps which I had not read at all. Unfortunately, there is no one-to-one session on the computer at the Seminar. It is very difficult for a rank newcomer to digest so many concepts in two days. A lot of guys there who were sounding very confident in their participation reavealed that they had already attended previous seminars. That alone shows that two days can only give a good intro which can easily be got from a book. Another seminar I attended from Chartistcafe was more professional. They gave a CD on the presentation charging Rs 100/-. Viratech refused to give photocopies of the slides even on my specific request to them. Their slides and charts keep alternating on one screen and you have to see a second screen at the other end. You must be a superman to take down what is spoken, displayed at both ends and that too on a 'technical' subject.

I did not mention Chartistcafe because of my own suggestion in my earlier post about avoiding seminars but they also gave us a list of books to read. They gave us a three hour free presentation and covered the absolute basics. (plus free food and drinks). In the old days we used to say " A cute little century by Vishwanath is far better than a double ton by Gavasker' This is the exact situation, not because ot the free element but for that wondeful CD.


On the positive side, you may bump into contacts in the Seminar who may be willing to help you out. I was lucky that way but that guy chickened out after a couple of days. Basically, you need coaching not teaching, Another broker told me this and said that as long as I read up all the theory, he was willing to guide me as a value added service as long as I became his client. He was intelligent too but his not having the EOD Metastock proved very cumbersome. Basically, if you can convince a broker or one of these Newsletter guys to coach you over a period of three months, it will be much better value for the same money. Try to convince the newsletter guys to follow a horses for courses philosophy and coach you instead of subscribing to their Newsletters specifying that you are not asking for trade secrets but the basics. Here also you will be lucky if you get a genuine guy because for them, it will be like killing the geese that lays golden eggs. If you learn, its one potential customer less for them. Everyone is not alike but many of them have the attitude opposite to that of the Chinese proverb, Give somebody a fish he eats today. Teach him how to fish, he eats everyday. You will be lucky if you bump into the right guy who charges reasonably. A respected figure in CNBC asked me Rs 2.5 lakhs for teaching for a year- he decides everything, you cannot even question which software to learn.? He was out and out arrogant. That way the seminar is better.


As far as Metastock is concerned, it is really useful only if you want to become a pro I think. Where basics go, Metastock is a little more user friendly. Fancy explorations are more of an intellectual exercise if your financial resources are limited. I have read at a number of places that a majority of fancy indicators are superfluous. It maybe an excellent product but where value added service is concerned, in my view as somebody who has worked in Export Marketing is poor. Ideally speaking, if you buy an original package, they should be providing you this 3 month coaching I am talking about. Their people in Delhi know just about the basics and in a product like this one is looking forward to some good one to one sessions without wasting Viratechs time. I have met many people who have hinted that it was foolish to buy the original version and honestly speaking, I cant help wondering whether or not they are right. The irony is that Equis provides free workshops in the US and the possibility of learning in those one to one sessions provided you are theoretically sound is far better than a seminar. After six months, I recently learnt that an expert advisor gives trading signals. When you try to learn adhoc, this is what happens. Like in trading, in hindsight it maybe common sense but Common sense is most uncommon .

Some people charge fairly high for teaching even Metastock tips and tricks. Why should you pay them if you are buying the original package? If anybody has any doubts about what value added service implies, read Peter Drucker,s ," Innovation and Emtrepreurship".


Keep one basic point in mind- Anything that is technical, has a direct monetary implication and has over 90% failure rate requires commando type training. No seminar or discussion forum, no matter however good can come up to that.

Even generally, professionalism is all about thoroughness which is hardly evident in their service. I have written long as I have really had a rough time learning TA. That is why people like Credit who proactively part with critical info must be appreciated.
 
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Traderji

Super Moderator
#4
Excellent write up sh50.

In my opinion learning to trade is a combination of being exposed to ideas (from books) plus practical experience watching the markets on a day-to-day basis. This is not something that can happen in only a few weeks. On the other hand, you can become a great trader even with only average intelligence. Professional trader and money manager Russell Sands describes the makeup of a successful trader: "Intelligence alone does not make a great trader. Success is equal parts of intellect, applied psychology, practice, discipline, bankroll, self-understanding and emotional control."

Furthermore, to be successful you don't have to invent some complex approach that only a nuclear physicist could understand. In fact, successful trading plans tend to be simple. They follow the general principles of correct trading in a more or less unique way.
 
#5
i've been to their courses in Mumbai and have found it extremely helpful - their service is also pretty good - i find hiren's(sh50) view strange, as they clarify all your doubts and it is taught pretty conveniently - after all in a period of 2 days you are in an atmosphere where you are taught in a small group and i have made good money following the techniques taught

this is such a vast subject that it takes people years to pick up - what i learnt in few days was excellent and i wold give them an A - they are approachable and reply to all your queries.
 

sh50

Active Member
#6
Well, I have been exposed to International Marketing in two companies and by that exposure I don't think it is upto mark. Maybe Mr kapoor takes to the subject very well. I also worked under a boss who got three cars and six promotions in a year and a quarter on the strength of his natural talent but he learnt lots of significant points from the rest of us. In trading which has above 90% failure rate and direct monetary implication, these significant points can prove dicey. Individual problems are also there. For instance, I had this phobia about continuation patterns & stochastics in the beginning but three months after the Seminar, when I read Edwards and Maggie, they disappeared. This could have got sorted out by Individual attention. Viratech was kind enough to spend a couple of hours after the Seminar in fariness to them. However, in my view this requires more rigoros training and that too one one one sessions on the computer the way it is done in US. In every new book that I have read, I have picked up new significant points.

I never said the Seminar was bad or blamed Viratech. I was suggesting that Semiars no matter who conducts them can never be good enough. The Advanced Trading Academy in the US which has a proper one week course supported by three months of handholding. Maybe that is practically not feasible in India.

When you sell an International product, the service also has to be top class. Viratech's people in Delhi do not seem to know anything beyond the absolute basics. Transworld is an ISO 9000 broker. You can't say that I am ISO 9000 in the head office and not in the branch. You cannot sell a world class product like that. That is what I have been taught About replying queries, their Delhi people should be equally good in replying to any query on the computer.

Summing it up, Traderji mentioned that it could take at least 2-3 years to make a pro and get a really good hang of the subject which is mentioned in other books also. Then, it will natrually require more comprehensive training. It all boils down whether you want professional throughness or "chalta hai " attitude. Also depends upon whether you want to do part time or full time.
 
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#7
I have been doing technical analysis for the past 1 year and i have approached various people to teach me trading - The problem is no one wants to impart their knowledge and time - even for a price [like you mentioned in your earlier message ridiculous rates are quoted]. I've realised TA is an art and like any art you mature in it over the years, classes like these are stepping stones to get the mind ignited, which it sure did with me and quite a few others also.

Bookish knowledge is available all over the place and the net - finally the successful implementation and making money is what we all are keen in - After all why else are we going through the pain of learning - Defiently not for academic interest - Its the money which lures us here.

I found their courses good because here was someone who took time to organise such workshops openely - Provided an open forum for discussion and learning without any hesitation - Their mumbai office people have been providing fantastic service to any of my technical clarifications and where they are not able to solve any issue the owners of Viratech have taken personal interest in clarifying any doubts. I know even the Equis guys rarely help on issues related to Technical Analysis, they invariably will point to Pristine or any other training academy where you could spend $1000 without really knowing where you are headed.

Cheers and all the best for your trading
 
#8
Looking at what you guys rkapoor78 & sh50 have been spatting about, it seems it's all about Viratech Mumbai vs Viratech Delhi.

There's a Viratech Chennai too organising such a course. Now, do I go to one or not??? That's the question. :confused: Or should I go by CV's advice & get Murphy's book? :confused:


"C'mon sh50, you'd know better than that,
don't go and have an ol'fashioned spat;
The bard in you should know what to do,
when critics are rife and you're in a stew."
 
#9
yes definetely you should go - they keep improving with each course

after all in 2 days even if one thing strikes you - and you can make money out of it - it's a win win, I've seen their course as a jumpstart to pick up more in the vast world of technicals.

one of my friends attended their session at Taj Corromandel in October and he says he found it good and he is going to attend again

South India has a lot of clued people - i am sure you'll meet a good group of people - which is what is really required to progress.
 
C

CreditViolet

Guest
#10
The major problem with technical analysis is that in real market conditions most of the stuff that is promoted around as some magic wand wont work.More money can be made giving seminars and newsletters to excited newbies rather than to trade signals themselves it seems nowdays.People who want things the easy way are prey to such mistakes over and over as is self evident if you take a look at the market participants.People are willing to spend so much time learning irrelevant stuff doing degrees and professional courses but when it comes to trading every want to just get on with it,let others do the work for them.Many will learn the hard way and many will just fade away.The average life of a trader is said to be anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months.Many just keep pluggin away like it is the freedom struggle revisited.

You cant learn trading like in group therapy.You have to pay your price and that comes from trading itself and taking losses as your fees.And you have to learn from your mistakes.If you think that some smooth talking salesman with lots of fancy bells and whistles will teach you to trade then you have my sympathies.

Seminars are more useful when you already have got the basics right and then you meet fellow traders to exchange views and share ideas.But newbies without the basic knowhow will come out of these seminars thinking they have found the holy grail when all they really got out of it is to draw some lines across a red and green chart.

Trading is a lonely profession and mingling with fellow traders wont get u newhere if u urself r not willing to put in the hard work.Have you heard of doctors learning surgery or pilots learning to fly in a seminar.
 

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