Discount Broker Comparison

[ackin12345]

@TracerBullet how is review of Interactive brokers, what is minimum account balance and brokerage for futures and option?

 

[TracerBullet]

@TracerBullet how is review of Interactive brokers, what is minimum account balance and brokerage for futures and option?

Great platform, makes life easy.

Low leverage - right now no extra intraday leverage - so almost 2L per lot in Nifty. Before covid they gave 50% intraday margin and Nifty margin was around 1.2L, so about 60k intraday. No leverage for stocks cash.

Min account balance - They needed some initial 40k but after that i dont think there was a minimum.
Brokerage - 20 per order

They do settlement every quarter and send back money. Its a bit disruptive but there is a workaround by selling liquidbees from demat one day before.

 

[travi]

I am looking to change my broker for trading stocks intraday. Current broker ( wisdom ) is preventing scale up.

What i am looking for
1) Looking for long term broker, tired of switching - from zerodha(unstable) to finvasia( less leverage) to wisdom(cant scale up)
2) Platform/Ordering stability. No real point without this.
In the long run stable api is much better but for now nest will also work.
My current tools are actually on nest so moving to api would take some extra effort but thats ok.
This link gives some brokers that provide api but a lot of them are not familiar.
https://algoji.com/selecting-broker-algo-trading/
3) Leverage. My current system will probably need 7-8x for extreme cases if i keep full amount with broker.
Now obv, i would prefer to keep lower amount to reduce broker risk (hence wisdom).
20/28x with upstox looked great but not sure if they are still providing it.
Another way to manage that will be to use two brokers, which is probably what i will do in future as most brokers seem to give 8-16x
Perhaps sharekhan next year when they start discount broking arm ..
4) Square off time. Just adding because i think upstox? changed it to 1500 which is too early. 1520/1515 is ok.
5) Brokerage - 20 per order is great and preferred. If a broker is giving something much better, then percentage might also be ok as long as its reasonable. Currently paying 0.007% which is high. I get around 100 trades in a month in different stocks.
6) So current broker is keeping a hard limit on combined contract size (without leverage). Obviously a blocker, i am not sure if any other broker does this.
7) Ideally, 3 months settlement should not stop me from trading next day. Either they keep money in account( preferred) or have quick turnaround.

Interactive brokers is probably my ideal broker and i use them for Nifty. Great platform and trusted broker.

But they give very little leverage and none for stocks, which is a problem for intraday.

Below is my perception of other brokers, probably flawed and hence looking for opinion from regular traders.

1) Fyers - Right now on top of my list.
pros - simple api, seems stable based on thread ( although had issue recently with squareoff), active in response.
cons - cover orders can get disabled instead of just reducing leverage (So will have to code both cases)
Thats ok when index is up/down 7-8 % on open, when i wont trade anyway, but they seem to do it for smaller moves too just based on anticipation.
Leverage is ok but a lot of them seem to be around 10x for cover orders. Hopefully, will increase once covid/sebi issue goes away.
Not sure if they have good financial backing behind them. Crazy things can happen ( crude -ve !! )
Obviously can say same for many other brokers including my current one.

2) Upstox - Was considering this previously, but there is a lot of negative reviews for them recently
pros - Leverage with 30 brokerage plan (20/28x) - But are they still giving it ?
Big broker, money perhaps safer ?
Used to be stable, better than Zerodha when they were RKSV. Not sure if its still true.
Nest - can just trade with my current tools with less initial effort.
cons - api seems to have been stopped and had lots of negative review when i last looked
Negative feedback from many after covid.
Square off time moved to 1500 ?

3) Zerodha - Would have been obvious choice with cover orders + api + possibly good financial strength and much to loose.
But they have a long record of being unstable regularly. Still hoping that will change in future.

4) Any other that i should consider? tradesmartonline/sasonline/samco/5paise/aliceblue/other ? Absolutely no idea how they are.
I would like to avoid over smart players with hidden charges and hidden conditions and other issues.

I guess you have answered most of your questions.

Fyers review since you haven't tried it.
I haven't tried Upstox but Fyers ranks highest in your pending list. Rare glitches and the recent ones were with the Web TV interface.
APIs didn't have an issue then.

CO/BO is a bit tight, limited to 120 odd stocks so some orders get rejected even though those stocks are F&O or have enough liquidity.
https://fyers.in/margin-calculator/bracket-cover-orders/ You can get the list here from dropdown. F12 browser and scrape the html select tag.

Leverage on CO is in medium range but i guess 8-10X upto 20X is not bad. Brokerage has increased with most of them but 20 cap should work depending on your position size.

APIs if used RAW as in Py/JS/REST etc then no cost overhead. Algoji is a 3rd party interface thing u don't really need but that is paid. Keep in mind 30 day refund doesn't apply for API users which won't matter for many.

New Back-office ( not new anymore ) is good. Detailed and gives all the stats.

I tried a few times, their Web Ix and Fyers one ( Desktop ) allow simultaneously logins which is good for failover plan.

As far as Z, it isn't as dreaded as 2017-18 days but issues do arise in first 10min or high vola periods. Order pending prob.
It shouldn't matter much if ur algo places after 9:30am

 

[TracerBullet]

Fyers review since you haven't tried it.
I haven't tried Upstox but Fyers ranks highest in your pending list. Rare glitches and the recent ones were with the Web TV interface.
APIs didn't have an issue then.

My main requirement is for api + ordering to be stable. Data i take externally. Gui stuff i will use just for info + emergency issues so small issues should not matter.

CO/BO is a bit tight, limited to 120 odd stocks so some orders get rejected even though those stocks are F&O or have enough liquidity.
https://fyers.in/margin-calculator/bracket-cover-orders/ You can get the list here from dropdown. F12 browser and scrape the html select tag.

hehe nice. Can you confirm that the leverage they show on website is accurate. Just confirming as unsure if its changed after covid.
All of my active stocks are in it, even back up ones too - so no issue. Only one i dont see is HDFCAMC which is new.

Leverage on CO is in medium range but i guess 8-10X upto 20X is not bad. Brokerage has increased with most of them but 20 cap should work depending on your position size.

Problem for me happens when most open orders/trades end up on the lower side + volatility is low ( so qty is larger)

As far as Z, it isn't as dreaded as 2017-18 days but issues do arise in first 10min or high vola periods. Order pending prob.
It shouldn't matter much if ur algo places after 9:30am

ok so this is new. Do you trade frequently with Zerodha? Which broker do you prefer ?
Previously, stuck orders would remain stuck for long time without clarity on their status. Does this still happen?
Rare and reasonably small delay for order to get to trigger pending is ok

I dont trade around open so if Z was usable, that would be great and i could maybe use Fyers + Z and be done with it.

 

[kaly422000]

any one have idea about zerodha kite new trade from chart? to set price ,have option to slide over the last candle to set price but dont know ,limit,market or sl-m order can be done with it. eg if i drag the price abv the current price for buy(vis avis for sell also),can it be sl-m buy?

 

[travi]

My main requirement is for api + ordering to be stable. Data i take externally. Gui stuff i will use just for info + emergency issues so small issues should not matter.


hehe nice. Can you confirm that the leverage they show on website is accurate. Just confirming as unsure if its changed after covid.
All of my active stocks are in it, even back up ones too - so no issue. Only one i dont see is HDFCAMC which is new.


Problem for me happens when most open orders/trades end up on the lower side + volatility is low ( so qty is larger)



ok so this is new. Do you trade frequently with Zerodha? Which broker do you prefer ?
Previously, stuck orders would remain stuck for long time without clarity on their status. Does this still happen?
Rare and reasonably small delay for order to get to trigger pending is ok

I dont trade around open so if Z was usable, that would be great and i could maybe use Fyers + Z and be done with it.

Caught up in work, well update tomo
tc

From Tapatalk

 

[bpr]

Great platform, makes life easy.

Low leverage - right now no extra intraday leverage - so almost 2L per lot in Nifty. Before covid they gave 50% intraday margin and Nifty margin was around 1.2L, so about 60k intraday. No leverage for stocks cash.

Min account balance - They needed some initial 40k but after that i dont think there was a minimum.
Brokerage - 20 per order

They do settlement every quarter and send back money. Its a bit disruptive but there is a workaround by selling liquidbees from demat one day before.

yes with IB settlement headache is their ...last settlement my entire money was sent back to account ..
Very inconvienet ..our regulator should give a yearly option
IB sometime after settlement might take 1 day before depositing back to bank account ...so money is dedcuted from ur account does not reach ur bank account ..as in transit ..I complained them ...LAst time money reached my account in 4 hours ...hopefully they keep it up

again depositing money in IB is not instant ...and rather cumbersome which I kinda hate ..you have to raise a request how much you are depositing and then transfer the amount from the bank ...also no IMPS alloowed you have to transfer NEFT or RTGS only ...
So tranfer can take 2-4 hours to reach them ...then they have automated proccess to credit back to ur account but that can take another additional 1 hour .

I generally have overnight positions on the day of settlemennt and so a tiny portion of my account is returned ...but u cannot plan it always ...they usually email you in advance the date on which they will settlement though ...so thats that... last time they changd the date of settlement at the last time though.
Also buying liquidbees is fine but when u sell them u get the money after T+2 so essentially u r blocked of that money for 3 days ...no thank you
they don't recognize liquidbees as cash equivalent ...there is no way to pledge ...I atleast called them 5 times on this ... but in vain


but IB platform stability is infectious ...it is terifying to think of using other brokers now ....also I am not much of levergae user ...most my trades are overnight ...So that kind of seals it I have presently no other choice ...

 

[TracerBullet]

I generally have overnight positions on the day of settlemennt and so a tiny portion of my account is returned ...but u cannot plan it always ...they usually email you in advance the date on which they will settlement though ...so thats that... last time they changd the date of settlement at the last time though.
Also buying liquidbees is fine but when u sell them u get the money after T+2 so essentially u r blocked of that money for 3 days ...no thank you
they don't recognize liquidbees as cash equivalent ...there is no way to pledge ...I atleast called them 5 times on this ... but in vain

Yes this time they delayed by a day and so all of my liquidbees trick went in vain and i missed a trade ( loss trade .. )
For liquidbee, below is the trick. You need to bring in additional money though to not miss a day.
I have not yet tested it because this time there was delay and the previous time they gave me wrong steps for trading Nifty.

------
Monday is settlement day, Friday holiday. So using EOD balance on thursday

If you had sold Liquidbee on Wednesday, then yes, it would have worked provided you bought Liquidbee on Tuesday
If you had bought and sold on Wednesday itself (i.e intraday itself), then the trade value would not have held for settlement
Only securities pay in OR pay out obligation is held on the settlement day
So, if you bought on Tuesday and sold on Wednesday, we would have held your SELL Value on Thursday
The SELL trade would have settled on Monday morning and you could have traded Nifty options as well on Monday

-----

If you trade stocks, then selling of liquidbee from demat on thursday will probably work too.

If you buy Liquidbees on Thursday and sell it on Monday, then IB will not allow you to take an intraday FNO position on Monday because of the difference in the settlement cycles.
However, if you buy on Wednesday and sell on Thursday, IB will not transfer the unsettled trade value (of your Liquidbees Sell trade) to your bank account. So, you will be able to trade FNO intraday on Monday.

This was the explanation they gave me initially and i tried it for trading Nifty ( later they clarified that we need to sell one day before for Nifty)

The reason why you were unable to trade on Monday was because you tried to place orders in Banknifty OR Nifty50 options. The orders were rejected due to an internal system limitation at IB.
Note that we have the following segregation of accounts internally.
Securities side: Used for trading Stocks, Stock futures and Stock options.
Commodities side: Index futures and options, currency futures and options.
By default, funds are deposited on the securities side of your account. The issue is that the system allows you to trade on Commodities side only if you have settled funds
i.e it will internally transfer settled funds only from securities to commodities side to fund your trade
On Monday, 24 Feb, your Liquidbee SELL Trade from previous Thursday was not settled. Therefore, the system did not allow an internal movement for your Banknifty and Nifty50 option orders.
However, this requirement is not applicable if you trade on the securities side itself, i.e you could have traded Stocks, stock futures and stock options on Monday.
I see that you successfully placed orders on LICHSGFIN options on Monday and they gave you no margin error, although you did not actually transmit the orders

 

[travi]

Depositing back to Z is instant with HDFC bank CMS option. Never used anything else and it doesn't have imps limits.
In Fyers, the turn-around is probably half an hour with RTGS deposit being instant, and your email with proof.

I haven't used UPI option bcos of 2L limit but upto that amount it seems instant with these two.

 

[marimuthu13]

Depositing back to Z is instant with HDFC bank CMS option. Never used anything else and it doesn't have imps limits.
In Fyers, the turn-around is probably half an hour with RTGS deposit being instant, and your email with proof.

I haven't used UPI option bcos of 2L limit but upto that amount it seems instant with these two.

deposting back ? you mean payout to client bank account is instant ?