Decent low-profile Discount Broker

Best Discount Broker? Also please state your reasons in the thread

  • Wisdom Capital

  • RK Global

  • SAS Online

  • Trade Smart Online

  • TradingBells

  • SAMCO

  • 5paisa

  • MyValueTrade

  • Finvasia

  • Others


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#11
@CougarTrader ,

I have edited the posts to exclude what I thought was objectionable content.

You are entitled to your opinions about Fyers, but it is meandering into malicious category. Please keep this thread about decent low profile discount brokers only.
 
#12
the story of india's first discount broker is very unique. they are the only one successful. so its wrong to put any other discount broker in the same yardstick even upstox for that matter. they have invested so much and were only copying what z provides and yet are not able to copy the success. its business and the bottomline that counts at the end of the day. finally, any company lets say invested on a salary of a staff to exclusively reply on traderji but not much clients turned around, obviously they will stop. so the reason for stopping is different in case of z and up IMHO.

in case of FYERS, they should have stopped even earlier because its the company CEO who is directly replying. the user base they have is not worth even looking at this forum. i feel as a community we need to find a fierce and able competitor instead of showing all our anger on z with all brokers in India.

i too had the same opinion that NEST is best because it has less latency. it was an eye opener when @Tejas Khoday refuted it.
We had discount brokers earlier too. RKG is a notable one. There was Reliance money, but I don't know much about that.
 
#14
I agree to you @CougarTrader on this letter by letter.
P.S. I trade my own tools using Amibroker like any other sensible serious trader. Because in the entire universe, if anybody understands the technological aspects within the Trading context like application resource utilization, speed, event-execution there’s nobody ahead of Dr. Tomasz Janeczko, the founder and chief software architect of Amibroker. If any Indian discount broker understands this bit and facilitates free easy access to AB (not license wise) but plugin-wise, it will be a different story all together. This will enable brokers to focus more on proper Order executions instead of working on varied different fruitless platform related products. Amibroker is Industry’s best kept secret and no other application can ever compete with that. Worldwide no one could in last 20 years – no Ninja, no Meta; All bows down in front of AB's speed and ever-strengthening competence. That’s one other reason for IB’s success, their TWS platform handshakes with AB without any flaw via a simple free plugin.
 

Tejas Khoday

Co-Founder & CEO, FYERS
#15
@Tejas Khoday
I appreciate your passion for your own product - wholehearted respect to you for that.
Thanks.

I wish that my broker simply provides a platform from which I can flawlessly execute my orders at any given situation on any given day WITHOUT ANY EXCUSES. Our Discount Brokers cannot even provide this bit consistently. So, what will I do with your “user experience, Sir! If this bit is not taken care then rest everything becomes plastic and irrelevant.
Even the exchange cannot execute your orders at any given situation or any given day WITHOUT ANY EXCUSES. There have been multiple occasions this year when MCX was down and there have been times when NSE too had some issues (Rare). You are wrongly assuming that only discount brokers have order execution failures. The matter of fact is discount brokers are just like any other brokers with the same exchange licenses, tied up with the same telecom providers, hosted in the same data centers and get the same feeds at the same time from the exchanges. Hence, your assumption is wrong! Order execution failures exist in traditional brokerages too. At the end of the day, the same parties are involved. User experience is important, albeit lesser than order execution.

You are mixing up things! How can anybody’s requirements or needs judge a Broker’s overall reliability and trustworthiness. A reliable trustworthy Broker will always remain that forever – irrespective of any day or any circumstance. For instance look at Western counterparts – IB, TOS, Amibroker etc. Then exceptions could be rightfully ignored once in a while but not consistent technological failures at every step. I need NEST because it is not resource hungry and pretty simple without any mumbo-jumbo. I want to use it for order execution only. Egos apart, Dartstock is very resource hungry - use any good Performance monitor on a normal i3 CPU 4GB RAM PC.
I am not mixing up things. Just responding to your statements. A reliable and trustworthy broker may not always be that forever! Like I have said before, a broker is a part of the chain link and not the chain itself. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link!. If you really want to compare Indian brokers to western counterparts then you must also compare every aspect that makes up an integral part of the ecosystem like telecom providers, service standards of data centers, TAT, exchanges, processes etc. I can't take responsibilities of the failures of other brokers but I'm just letting you know that every company is a product of its surroundings and circumstances. You will not believe the kind of bureaucracy involved in acquiring a single leased line. A broker has to apply through the exchange's portal --> The exchange has outsourced it to an IT company which is too busy to give a damn so they outsourced it to yet another IT company --> This IT company's employees treat the brokers like adopted children to whom they are not answerable to unless they are told repeatedly from the company that outsourced it to them to get things done. --> To add to the delay, the telecom providers' turn around time is unbelievably slow and brokers can't break the line and do direct follow-ups. You are wrongly assuming that order execution related failures are mostly because of the application. No, you are wrong here. What you call mumbo-jumbo is crucial information. Tell me any other platform that you have used for free that gives you so much information, heatmaps, screeners, options chain etc., for free! The amount of data we provide on it, it will obviously be more resource hungry than a barebones NEST trader. I don't know about you, but our clients appreciate the features that we provide.

Cannot agree further with you on this! I do not wish to pay for faulty APIs. Moreover, being a miniature retailer I do not wish to pay to external data vendors at a hefty cost in order to feed my charting platform either. WILL ANY BROKER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY OF THEIR OWN SYSTEM FAILURE AND REFUND THEIR CLIENT FOR THE LOSSES INCURRED? You might reply back saying yes but in reality you won't. There have been many occasions where uncountable members including myself have reported loss on an ongoing profitable trade simply because of broker's OMS failure or Connection flapping and/or what not excuses. None of the Discount Brokers will ever understand the ground reality. For most trapping and sucking is always better than toiling and serving. Often Discount brokerages are only concerned to increase their client base.
I can't comment on other brokers' APIs or the expensive data vendors in the market who charge hefty fees to give you minimal data. Our platform gives you 20+ years of historical EOD data (Corporate action adjusted) and 1+ years of intraday historical data for free! We also have a repository of data which will be really helpful for all types of traders.

Do you know what a broker means? A broker mediates transactions (through their platforms). They don't take positions against you. If transactions fail, then it's fair for you to ask for a brokerage refund. But how can you expect the losses to be refunded? Do you think that the broker won all the amount that you lost or was it the counterparty to your trade who benefits from it? It is not mature to expect a broker to refund losses. Brokers are not like casinos. Let me clarify this: If you lose a round at roulette, the casino wins! If the machine didn't work as it is supposed to and you ask for a refund, it is justified. However, a brokerage is not a casino! Please understand this. The counterparty benefits, not the broker. Imagine this, if you bought some real-estate through a broker and the deal cost you money because of faulty title deeds, do you really think that the broker is obliged to pay you back your losses? It is unreasonable.

Which service provider in the world doesn't want to increase their client base? The threshold for operational sustainability in discount broking is much higher than in other businesses so obviously they will chase clients. But if their platforms and services deteriorate, it will not last and clients will eventually leave. That is not surprising!

.S. I trade my own tools using Amibroker like any other sensible serious trader. Because in the entire universe, if anybody understands the technological aspects within the Trading context like application resource utilization, speed, event-execution there’s nobody ahead of Dr. Tomasz Janeczko, the founder and chief software architect of Amibroker. If any Indian discount broker understands this bit and facilitates free easy access to AB (not license wise) but plugin-wise, it will be a different story all together. This will enable brokers to focus more on proper Order executions instead of working on varied different fruitless platform related products. Amibroker is Industry’s best kept secret and no other application can ever compete with that. Worldwide no one could in last 20 years – no Ninja, no Meta; All bows down in front of AB's speed and ever-strengthening competence. That’s one other reason for IB’s success, their TWS platform handshakes with AB without any flaw via a simple free plugin.
Amibroker is a stand-alone software which is judged by the application's features and capabilities. If Amibroker was a real broker dealing with the many layers of the business and clients positions as I have mentioned above, then your opinion about them would have surely been different. I hope you understand what I am trying to convey. I am not against you or your frustrations but as a mature participant on Traderji, I just expected you to know the basics of how things work around here. There is a lot talent available in India to solve issues faced by traders but if everyone has the same motive then things can be much better. Otherwise, it takes time.
 
Last edited:

Tejas Khoday

Co-Founder & CEO, FYERS
#16
We had discount brokers earlier too. RKG is a notable one. There was Reliance money, but I don't know much about that.
Hmmm.. Reliance Money had started giving flat rates to their sub-brokers who did high volumes. Some sub-brokers realized that it could work as a business model if done on a large scale. But the business sustainability aspect was questionable. At the time, NSE NOW was available for free and the new brokers didn't require any technology expenditures, so someone took a big gamble and it worked! :)

Today, it's a different story! Traders expect a lot more from brokers and implementation can be a very steep curve in terms of efforts and investment for new entrants. NSE NOW doesn't make the cut anymore IMO.
 
Last edited:

CougarTrader

Well-Known Member
#17
Pragmatically speaking I have no personal grudge on any Discount Broker even if I have lost because of their stupid OMS/RMS. More or else it is a true fact that as of today, any broker might call themselves with a different name but more or else their approach is identically similar. Yeah! what else to expect? For some since their client base is less, the resultant server requests are processed smoothly, when their base increases more requests gets crowded and we see outages very commonly.
 

pannet1

Well-Known Member
#18
Moreover IB has stopped providing leverage. I can imagine lot of local gang-ism is restricting IB in India, otherwise they are the most preferred Broker Worldwide. Hardly anyone in Europe trades without IB (because local EU brokers/banks charge a lot compared to IB), needless to mention USA (where they face other competitors like TOS-TDAmeriTrade). IB have free Datafeed plugin for AmiBroker, using their high-end simple APIs you could built anything from their platform TWS, Untimed Free Demo Trial. What else does anyone need?

Instead of working towards Trader satisfaction, today's Discount Brokerages in India are mostly concerned on Account Openings, they just want you and me to trade and lose and give up, then a newbie will repeat the process again after all India provides a huge client bandwidth. Don't you think if strong emphasis would have been laid on OMS/RMS instead of showing-off with plastic features, the basic preliminary issues that we face day-in, day-out would have been resolved by now?

If IB realizes this and start facilitating services on leverage, products from various Indian Exchanges on top of their current Technological facilities, I think it will be game-over for many disorganized Brokerages. I have requested @Traderji to onboard IB such that we all could collectively discuss our concerns. Let's see how that pans out....
i dont want to post this on that useless thread, so quoting you here in your own thread.

IB does not have commodity which is a big let down for me. for others its good to conclude that we trade with IB with no leverage or forget it. from what it seems now, i think there is no other broker coming close when it comes to execution. period.
 

CougarTrader

Well-Known Member
#19
IB does not have commodity which is a big let down for me. for others its good to conclude that we trade with IB with no leverage or forget it. from what it seems now, i think there is no other broker coming close when it comes to execution. period.
These are the few things that are restricting IB from being a Indian RockStar.... Otherwise they have all the required technological infrastructure far competent than any other broker to cause a disruption. Did you know? They have GTC which our geniuses cannot provide yet!

I actively participate in other Global forums like elitetrader and futures.io, those guys literally laugh at me when I talk about our order execution issues. Our western-counterparts trading community is huge compared to ours both value and volume wise, yet they never complain on these simple chindi issues like Order Execution. They have different problem of Darkpool which we thankfully don't have and they envy us on that :)

How many times your limit order has stayed open even-if the Price has crossed it by several ticks? How many times you have modified a order and it takes forever? I am not referring to calm normal hours, but during high volatile situations.
 

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