Day Trading Stocks & Futures

[Subhadip]

Year: 2009
City: Chennai
Most flats were quoting Rs. 40 Lakhs upwards.
I had an annual salary of Rs. 19. 5 Lakhs.
I used to work for Wipro.
I could have got loan of Rs. 1.5 Crores if I wanted.
I chose a flat in Kandigai area from Vijay Shanti Builders in their project called Park Avenue.
They offered me to help in loan. I did not want to get into loan.
I paid them as per their construction progress based plan through my own funds.
I used to spend just Rs. 20,000 of my salary per month those days. Most of my colleagues who had lesser salary than mine bought Honda City cars on loans. (Those cars drowned in Chennai floods and insurance recovery was poor due to depreciation and that is another story)
Every month after paying my installment to builder I used to buy VST shares with my surplus money.
My VST share acquisition was at prices ranging between 306 and 605. Acquired 1756 shares.
Sold VST shares at Rs. 1900
My Vijay Shanti builders flat 2 BHK costed me Rs. 24 lakhs including an extra car park(total two car parks) and further modifications that I needed. I paid all of that in cash.
Then lost my job.
Moved to Hyderabad.
Living on investing and trading money ever since.
I purchased my own small but beautiful office space in Hyderabad partly funded by VST share sale.
I run a small CA consultancy there.
My wife (MBA Graduate) is an insurance advisor (Life Insurance with Max Life, General Insurance with Tata AIG and Health Insurance with Max Bupa and Tata AIG) also works from the same office.
She has a flat in Hyderabad which is basically inheritance from her parents. (We currently live in that)
No, I did not buy a Honda car.
My first car in India is Tata Indica DLS registered in Ahmedabad while I was working there.
After, we moved to Hyderabad, went to a Tata Showroom and bought a Tata Nano for which I wrote a cheque to the dealer from my savings bank account. Zero debt. I still have the Indica. This new car is in wife's name. Both of us use it.
My office is in walking distance from my home.
But most times we go by Nano car to the office, because of pollution and hot sun.
I lived in Metro cities all my working years and even now I continue to live in Hyd.
Now, you may say I was lucky to get a flat from my wife to live in Hyderabad.
I agree. But if I did not have such a flat, I would have moved to rural.
Where there is a will, there is a way.
I can work from anywhere.
I trade for most of the time.
I also have consulting assignments.
I help my wife on Insurance as well
Since 2011, I did not work under anybody.
I am 46 now. I am capable and qualified enough to get a job.
I kind of do not like working under others.
In my free time, I read Ramayan and Bhagavath Katha.
I am a member of Club Mahindra.
For more than a decade, I had all material comforts like all electronics/appliances including dish washer which most Indians do not seem to prefer (I do not understand why)
My office is well equipped with laptops, desktops, UPS, Air Conditioning. 5 people can work in it I also have a private cabin in it.
Again, let me remind you, I never went to work under anyone since 2011.
Again, where there is a will, there is a way.
If you have any more questions, please let me know.


PS: Of course some acquaintances and relatives look down upon me because I drive a Nano.
I don't give a damn about what they think.
They do not know my Income or net worth. My goal is not to prove anything to such people.
I enjoy my freedom including financial freedom and freedom from corporate slavery.

nice.........

 

[TraderRavi]

 

[imurvrtrader]

I think imurvrtrader does not know that you are CA and your income levels. Otherwise why would he ask.
May be he was more general in the question having average people or middle class in mind.

exactly !!!!
I am only interested to know,
how a person earning say even 10L (gross income) now, (joined his job say some 3 years ago, started with 7L (gross) per year) will be able to buy a flat worth 45L, from his own savings, without a loan

(all figures are arbitrary)

 

[imurvrtrader]

Yes right. Very few people (percentage wise in India) is earning 19L a year.

that too in 2009 !!!!

 

[imurvrtrader]

Year: 2009
City: Chennai
Most flats were quoting Rs. 40 Lakhs upwards.
I had an annual salary of Rs. 19. 5 Lakhs.
I used to work for Wipro.
I could have got loan of Rs. 1.5 Crores if I wanted.
I chose a flat in Kandigai area from Vijay Shanti Builders in their project called Park Avenue.
..........
.........
.........
Again, where there is a will, there is a way.
If you have any more questions, please let me know.


PS: Of course some acquaintances and relatives look down upon me because I drive a Nano.
I don't give a damn about what they think.
They do not know my Income or net worth. My goal is not to prove anything to such people.
I enjoy my freedom including financial freedom and freedom from corporate slavery.

Thanks for detailed reply.
I appreciate your dedication, your hard work, your attitude towards life and everything, you posted.

well, I do not want to discuss or comment on your post. But cant restrain myself to post, you talked about 2009, with an income of 19.5L per year, somewhat equivalent to 50L now.

But, where did you reply to my main query
"Will you please explain with an example, how to buy a 2 BHK flat (in a metro city) worth 45 lakhs by one's own savings."

okay let me add some more details
how a person (family includes 4 adults and a child say 4 years of age, inc 2 senior citizen, ) earning say even 10L (gross income) now, (joined this job say some 3 years ago, started with 7L (gross) per year) will be able to buy a flat worth 45L, from his own savings, without a loan

 

[mohan.sic]

Suppose you have 3 credit cards and combined credit limit of all card is 3L. Now it is considered healthy to utilise less than 30% of the credit limit each month or at any given point of time, which is 90k. Now suppose you regularly spend around 50k each month, and you have closed 2 credit cards and remaining 1 card has a limit of 80k. Your expense remains the same at 50k. Now that the total limit is at 80k and you are using 50k, your credit utilisation is 62.50% which negatively impacts CIBIL score, as their algorithm sees you as credit hungry.

soft bro, this if's and but odds have nothing to do with what I said as below
" a credit card or cards closing should not have impact your score negatively provided all things remain same"

My case is where I simply closed all 3 cards at once as I left my job and income wont be there so choose not to use the credit extended to me. For this someone here said that closing the cards could have impacted the score to which I replied may not be the reason in my case.

we were talking on a plain card closing and no if's like high usage on other cards. May be you dint follow the whole thing so not aware of context.

thanks.

 

[sridhga]

Just my point of view:

If there are any full time traders here, a sincere advice for you. Do not bother to maintain this score. Do not take loans. No credit card loans. No personal loans. Buy your car with savings. Even house with savings. That is not impossible. Buy the house within your means. Live within your means.
..................................................................

This is my two cents. If this opinion helped you, that is well and good. If you did not like this post, please ignore it and move on, and I will still wish you good luck.

Year: 2009
City: Chennai
Most flats were quoting Rs. 40 Lakhs upwards.
............................................................
Again, where there is a will, there is a way.
If you have any more questions, please let me know.


PS: Of course some acquaintances and relatives look down upon me because I drive a Nano.
I don't give a damn about what they think.
They do not know my Income or net worth. My goal is not to prove anything to such people.
I enjoy my freedom including financial freedom and freedom from corporate slavery.

Thanks for detailed reply.
I appreciate your dedication, your hard work, your attitude towards life and everything, you posted.

well, I do not want to discuss or comment on your post. But cant restrain myself to post, you talked about 2009, with an income of 19.5L per year, somewhat equivalent to 50L now.

But, where did you reply to my main query
"Will you please explain with an example, how to buy a 2 BHK flat (in a metro city) worth 45 lakhs by one's own savings."

okay let me add some more details
how a person (family includes 4 adults and a child say 4 years of age, inc 2 senior citizen, ) earning say even 10L (gross income) now, (joined this job say some 3 years ago, started with 7L (gross) per year) will be able to buy a flat worth 45L, from his own savings, without a loan

Now let us look at all the posts without changing the original perspective.

In my first post relating to this subject, I addressed full time traders. My point was that full time traders should not take any loans. You asked a question on buying a house in a metro city without a loan. I gave my own example. Most people on the forum felt that my income enabled this. If my posts did not drive the point home, then, I think, I have not communicated properly.

I have a friend an young physiotherapist. He graduated out of college just 3 years ago and makes 5 lakhs a year in Hyderabad. He is in the early stage of his career. He is renting his home in Hyderabad but is building a house on a small plot of land belonging to his father in Srikakulam ( a smaller but nice coastal town in Andhra Pradesh). After his home construction there is complete, he will obviously relocate to that town which is his home town. He is staying in Hyd. just to fund his future practice in Srikakulam. He is a good example to look at. He is not taking home loans. He is building that house piece by piece with his monthly savings.

Bhai, please understand, if you are a full time trader, who is forcing you to buy a house in a Metro for 45 lakhs? Please decongest the metros if you can. India is not just metros. It is a much bigger country. In my second post, I made it clear that if I did not have access to a free home in Hyderabad, I would have moved to the rural side. I was not raised in a city. And I can go back to my small town life in which I grew up.

I worked in New York with a CPA whose net worth was USD 700 Million. Before, I relocated to India, he spoke to me in detail. He told me that he buys only used cars and he said that car makers try to up sell loaded versions of cars by tempting us etc. Indirectly he was hinting that my choice of buying a Toyota Corolla upper end version and brand new in the USA was a wrong decision. Eventually, I had to sell it at lower price after my usage.

Now also addressing your point. If you think as a trader that you cannot afford a 45 lakh house and you take a loan for it, you would end up paying 90 lakhs over 25 years. Now can you afford committing 90 lakhs for a 45 lakh house? By doing this you really believe that you are going to be rich or have a good life? Be realistic. A 45 lakh house in a metro city is most often a flat and it loses its value after 25 years. Say one could resell it at 20 lakh rupees (not future rupees, but at present value) the interest paid is more than the that. Surely this does not reflect a trader's mind set. Buying high and selling low is like hitting a self goal for a trader. That is why I said a trader should not take loans.

Interest rates on home loans in India are always above 10%. Once you take a loan they have all the excuses in the world to increase the rate and not to decrease it.
Personal loan is 14.5% if you have the best credit. It can go up to 19%.
Credit card loans vary between 24% to 39%.
In all the above cases, I have not included processing charges. These are charged upfront and ideally you should reduce that from the loan you received. If you do that you will be horrified when you recalculate the real interest rate.
Above all this, in India you have GST charges on some of those charges. A stock trader will not get any GST credit on this.
How many traders do make the above % returns on their trading business?

I have not invented any of these economic theories. If you read Warren Buffett's letters he explains a lot about frugal living and living within means. Even for investments, he prefers companies that have zero debt.
Another good source of information for this subject is a book called "The Millionaire Next Door"

There are two more big risks for traders.
1. A vegetable vendor goes home with some profit every day even if it is small. A stock trader does not have that advantage.
2. Most stock traders are using leverage. This is a high risk. I stopped using leverage when, I saw it's impact on my day to day profits.

How can you add loans to the above two risks?

Finance business is the most difficult business in the world. It is not easy to survive in trading with loan liabilities on your head.

 

[soft_trader]

soft bro, this if's and but odds have nothing to do with what I said as below
" a credit card or cards closing should not have impact your score negatively provided all things remain same"

My case is where I simply closed all 3 cards at once as I left my job and income wont be there so choose not to use the credit extended to me. For this someone here said that closing the cards could have impacted the score to which I replied may not be the reason in my case.

we were talking on a plain card closing and no if's like high usage on other cards. May be you dint follow the whole thing so not aware of context.

thanks.

Maaf karo bhai. You are right and I am wrong. Making you understand is not my cup of tea.

 

[siddhant4u]

soft bro, this if's and but odds have nothing to do with what I said as below
" a credit card or cards closing should not have impact your score negatively provided all things remain same"

My case is where I simply closed all 3 cards at once as I left my job and income wont be there so choose not to use the credit extended to me. For this someone here said that closing the cards could have impacted the score to which I replied may not be the reason in my case.

we were talking on a plain card closing and no if's like high usage on other cards. May be you dint follow the whole thing so not aware of context.

thanks.

Mohan bhai, if you close credit cards, you are losing credit line which was open earlier. It’s mentioned in above point 3. Credit Rating goes up when there is credit. So use as much credit card you can, pay up every month, card company will raise your Card Credit limit by few more lakh, you improve rating....

They are in credit biz, those without loan or less credit card or with less credit card limit are not good customers.

In your case, closing credit cards is exactly the reason your rating went down

 

[TraderRavi]