Correct me if I'm wrong about options

gmt900

Well-Known Member
#31
Since we're both Buying and Selling Calls, the Delta and Vega risks are reduced.

There are two reasons you need to consider before appreciating the benefits of this method:
1. Direction of a Stock: 70% of the time a stock either plummets or stays flat. It takes lot of effort for a stock price to move up. On the contrary, stock price falls faster than going up because of mass panic. Statistically, direction-wise, staying Short is more profitable. Having this said, I am not saying one cannot make money by Investing, its just that the other side is much more probable provided one respects the rules of the game.
2. Option Writing: Options are depreciating assets, so, Theta Decay is highly lucrative but that comes-in with many Risks and Uncertainties. First and foremost, Vega can be your friend or foe depending on the Implied Volatility (IV) and the price direction of the underlying.

Now since we are holding a bearish view on the stock (in this strategy) by selling far OTM calls, direction-wise, we do not want +ve Delta increase. Also it will be an insult to our injury when Delta increases accompanied by Vega rise (in other words, Stock price goes up rapidly). In this scenario, we want Vega to increase (if not staying flat) at Delta decrease, but not the other way round. Clearly, we can see that the "Rate of Change of Delta" (otherwise called Gamma) comes into the picture which solely determines whether to adjust or do nothing.

When we sell far OTM options IV plays the most crucial role. If you sit down with Black-Scholes model for some time you will see mathematical formulas showing that Gamma and Vega are two sides of the same coin of IV.

As individual participants, we can never control the market dynamics. So, if somehow we neutralize or reduce the Gamma effect, by default Delta and Vega risks are taken care. This bit is achieved by the "Bull Call Spread". Then we try to capitalize on Theta decay of far OTM Calls.

So, there are few rules for this strategy:
1. Avoid volatile stocks;
2. Avoid Earnings, Announcements, Result Stocks;
3. Avoid stocks that have history of going up by more than 10% in a month;
4. Follow stocks in Downtrend only (price trading below 50 MA);
5. Far OTM Strike must be above a strong resistance level (preferably from Monthly/Yearly timeframes);
6. While taking the position, far OTM Strike must be more or less at a distance of 10% from ATM Strike;
7. The position while acquiring must give +ve credit;
8. No adjustments to be made in the initial Bull-Call Spread;
9. Adjust far OTM strikes whenever required (we have already discussed in-depth how and when to adjust);
10. Do not apply this strategy in Indices.

Yes.

I am glad that you asking these questions, because without the understanding of the core-concept, execution becomes a far-fetched goal. In a nutshell, the idea is to reduce or neutralize Gamma risk and enjoy Theta decay. The Bull-Call Spread plays the most significant role in this strategy and makes all the difference when compared to naked option writing or Short-Strangles. For months at a stretch I have contemplated, experimented, studied, sacrificed my social-family life on how to reduce risk on naked option writing or Short-Strangles and haven't found anything better.;)

Let us take an example:
VEDL Chart

View attachment 32233
As you can see if VEDL falls and stays below 200 we make Rs.9315 at expiry. If it stays between 200 and 215.60, we make maximum profit of Rs. 16,215. There is another 2L kept secured for this position to counter adjustments (if prices comes to 215-218) on top of the Total Margin required. So, easily we can make 2-3 adjustments, if VEDL starts for a rally and still come-out profitable fearlessly.
Since during Jan series Q3 results will be announced, as per your recommendation, one should refrain from using this strategy.
 

RadhuK

Well-Known Member
#32
I used this strategy on TATASTEEL yesterday

+ 520 call @ 18.85 x 1 now 11.55 x1 net -7.3
- 530 call @ 14.25 x 1 now 8.3 x1 net +5.95
-550 call @ 7.28 x 2 now 3.9 x2 net +6.76

net get = -7.3 + 5.95 + 6.76 == 5.41

few queries

Should let this go till expiry. risking possible pull back
or book profit... jo vattya so khattya

and was I right in shorting 550 callx2 which is less than 10% away from 520 spot as of yesterday
or I should have shorted 570 call

and any adjustment , that needs to be done now

please comment

Have done , similar on DLF also
 
#33
Dear @Loss_Lover sir,
Thank you very much for such a vivid explanation and sharing your hard work. Many Greek related general doubts of mine got cleared from this post of yours. I can see better now. THANK YOU SIR !!! HAPPY NEW YEAR !!! :happy:
Superb explanation... have to read 4-5 times but got the actual thing what it is doing inside :) Thanks a lot for sharing .. Happy New Year
Your excellent strategy and explanation got buried in the title of the thread. Thank god I chanced upon it.
Thanks and wish you more profitable trading.
Need to ask @timepass to put in the list of gems which he collects. So that this valuable post does not get buried.
Thank you very much friends! Hope you all had a great New Year's eve. I am honored by your kind words. May this New Year bring lots of wealth, health and prosperity for you all.
I am unable to think anything else apart from Options after reading your last post.
Please do not think anything else for next 8-9 months. If you want to go deep with option strategies please read McMillan on Options. Once finished in 2-3 months let me know, I will name the next book which will take another 2-3 months.
Thanks to YouTube I have heard of butterflies, lizards, collars, spreads, iron condors, straddle, strangle, you also please give a brand-name to your option strategy. :D
Ha ha ha! LOL! :) I am unable to think of a name for this. May I request you all to decide a name for it please?
Since during Jan series Q3 results will be announced, as per your recommendation, one should refrain from using this strategy.
No no. Refrain from taking a position on those stocks only for which Results/Earnings are to be announced.
Before taking a position check NSE > Corporate Information > Equities. Avoid Earnings, Results, Volatile Stocks. And yes the position needs to be closely monitored every day at least thrice (Open/Mid-day/an hour before Close +vely) during a day.
I know my posts are very lengthy. But please read them multiple times for better insight. Thank you.
 
#34
I used this strategy on TATASTEEL yesterday

+ 520 call @ 18.85 x 1 now 11.55 x1 net -7.3
- 530 call @ 14.25 x 1 now 8.3 x1 net +5.95
-550 call @ 7.28 x 2 now 3.9 x2 net +6.76

net get = -7.3 + 5.95 + 6.76 == 5.41
Lovely!
Should let this go till expiry. risking possible pull back
or book profit... jo vattya so khattya
What I do is, if 4%-7% of Margin is achieved within 1-2 weeks from taking the position - I exit. Mostly I exit on the third week and deploy the capital for next position. If your far OTM strike is above a strong resistance, there is no need to worry for a pullback. The only time I carry it till expiry is when the stock price rallies up resulting me to do multiple adjustments.
and was I right in shorting 550 callx2 which is less than 10% away from 520 spot as of yesterday
or I should have shorted 570 call
10% upward movement is a psychological number. So, for stocks that has no recent history of going up 10% in a month, you are already giving yourself some edge by selling that OTM call. In your case of TATASTEEL, Daily charts were looking very weak and since 550 is December's high you made no mistake by selling that level. Staying flexible and reasonable is all it takes!
and any adjustment , that needs to be done now
Why? Abhi toh party suru hui hain. :angelic:
(1) Adjust by selling 4 lots of 560 after covering previously sold 2 lots of 550 (to negate the incurred debit loss with new credit gain) only when price enters the range of 540-545 (i.e. 2%-1% less than 550). Then if again price rallies to 548-554 (i.e. 2%-1% less than 560), sell 8 lots of 570 after covering previously sold 4 lots of 560. No fear!
(2) If TATASTEEL breaks 485 support cover 2 lots of 550 Call OTM and sell 2 lots of 530 Call (i.e. 10% above 485). No greed!
You get the idea. If 2%-1% less of the Resistance is breached on the upside, we move to the next strike, if Support is broken on the downside, we come down.
Have done , similar on DLF also
All the Best :up:
 
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gmt900

Well-Known Member
#35
@ Loss_Lover,
Would you please elaborate a little more on how you manage the trade to maximise profit in case the price remains below
the strike price of long call ?
If the return is say 3% below strike price of long call and is say 10 % between the OTM calls, do you sell additional far OTM calls ?
 

pannet1

Well-Known Member
#36
not telling this to take away what @Loss_Lover had said. it is called a bull put ladder is using PUTS and bull call ladder if using CALLS

basically you want vola to reduce if you are a net seller and increase if you are a net buyer.

at the short strike: once the long ITM/ATM option become in the money, their premium increase.
you assume that by this time the premium of the short strike is manageable. (due to decay)

the tricky part is when the you are using calls, you are actually long biased. however, if the underlying trades below your long strike, can you still gain (a small amount). for that you need enter into credit spread.
 
#37
Sorry for the late reply I somehow missed your posts and just noticed them today.
@ Loss_Lover,
Would you please elaborate a little more on how you manage the trade to maximise profit in case the price remains below
the strike price of long call ?
If the return is say 3% below strike price of long call and is say 10 % between the OTM calls, do you sell additional far OTM calls ?
Please read all of my previous posts multiple times - I have nothing more to say. Basically you bring down the far OTM strike and increase the profitability if and only if the stock price has fallen drastically. In greed of collecting more premiums do not get too much carried away because the stock price might pullback to the upside for the retest of resistance levels. Before taking any position, concentrate on how would you react or adjust if things turns out against you. Entries are easy but its the Exits that counts more. And Exits or the execution needs to be premeditated which solely determines the PnL of the trade.
not telling this to take away what @Loss_Lover had said. it is called a bull put ladder is using PUTS and bull call ladder if using CALLS

basically you want vola to reduce if you are a net seller and increase if you are a net buyer.

at the short strike: once the long ITM/ATM option become in the money, their premium increase.
you assume that by this time the premium of the short strike is manageable. (due to decay)

the tricky part is when the you are using calls, you are actually long biased. however, if the underlying trades below your long strike, can you still gain (a small amount). for that you need enter into credit spread.
I have been waiting for someone to call it atleast a LCL and spark a round of healthy discussion or debate.:)
What took you so long? :happy:
I know my previous posts in this thread are very lengthy - I have explained it very painstakingly. Sorry to say NO this is not a Long Call Ladder if you go by the book. One of the leg of this synthetic option position is further modified from a traditional LCL, so as to, you never make a loss in your position when the stock price plummets (unlike LCL), the risk only lies when it goes up for which I have already explained on how to make adjustments and counter it. LCL is very close but not exactly - still got no name for it.:(
 
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pannet1

Well-Known Member
#38
I have been waiting for someone to call it atleast a LCL and spark a round of healthy discussion or debate.:)
What took you so long? :happy:
I know my previous posts in this thread are very lengthy - I have explained it very painstakingly. Sorry to say NO this is not a Long Call Ladder if you go by the book. One of the leg of this synthetic option position is further modified from a traditional LCL, so as to, you never make a loss in your position when the stock price plummets (unlike LCL), the risk only lies when it goes up for which I have already explained on how to make adjustments and counter it. LCL is very close but not exactly - still got no name for it.:(
:cool:

I was not watching this trend, thats why it took long. its nice to know the name because we would know the risk. you must have done enough research on this, so let us not try to find the name. i was not paying much attention to the strategy, now let me take a closer look at it.
 
#39
Lovely!

Why? Abhi toh party suru hui hain. :angelic:
(1) Adjust by selling 4 lots of 560 after covering previously sold 2 lots of 550 (to negate the incurred debit loss with new credit gain) only when price enters the range of 540-545 (i.e. 2%-1% less than 550). Then if again price rallies to 548-554 (i.e. 2%-1% less than 560), sell 8 lots of 570 after covering previously sold 4 lots of 560. No fear!

All the Best :up:
Hi @ Loss_Lover,

Do we need to Exit the 2 lots sold and enter fresh 4 Lots Sell of next OTM in case of adjustment? Or we will continue the 2 lots sell position till end?

Thanks
 

RadhuK

Well-Known Member
#40
Hi @ Loss_Lover,

Do we need to Exit the 2 lots sold and enter fresh 4 Lots Sell of next OTM in case of adjustment? Or we will continue the 2 lots sell position till end?

Thanks
Hi @ Loss_Lover,

Do we need to Exit the 2 lots sold and enter fresh 4 Lots Sell of next OTM in case of adjustment? Or we will continue the 2 lots sell position till end?

Thanks
enter x4 lots
if position still moves unfavourable to you, exit 4 and enter x8 and so on. khoob sara capital chahiye
 

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