Correct me if I'm wrong about options

kingkrunal

Well-Known Member
#21
Bhai udta teer kyun lena??? And that too with Options in RCOM.... Baap re baap :eek:o_O
Trade those liquid stocks which are less volatile and generally not that popular. Wait! I will jott down a list of stocks that I have traded using this method.
Hahahaha... Lene k baad wahi laga tha.. but did paper trade for last two months and it was good.. so thought of getting in and Mai hi janta hu kaise nikla
 
#22
so thought of getting in and Mai hi janta hu kaise nikla
Ha ha.... RCOM is very volatile - most of the time (almost everyday) it will stay down but when it goes up it can easily go beyond 20-30% in a month and plummet back at the same rate. RCOM is very unpredictable!!!
For this method that we are discussing, avoid those stocks that have a history of going UP 10% in a month's period. Here are some of the stocks that have worked for me in recent expiries:
Code:
BHARTIARTL
WIPRO
TATASTEEL
TATAMOTORS
RELINFRA
RELCAPITAL
ONGC
VEDL
MARUTI
ITC
HCLTECH
DLF
COALINDIA
CIPLA
BHEL
 

kingkrunal

Well-Known Member
#23
Ha ha.... RCOM is very volatile - most of the time (almost everyday) it will stay down but when it goes up it can easily go beyond 20-30% in a month and plummet back at the same rate. RCOM is very unpredictable!!!
For this method that we are discussing, avoid those stocks that have a history of going UP 10% in a month's period. Here are some of the stocks that have worked for me in recent expiries:
Code:
BHARTIARTL
WIPRO
TATASTEEL
TATAMOTORS
RELINFRA
RELCAPITAL
ONGC
VEDL
MARUTI
ITC
HCLTECH
DLF
COALINDIA
CIPLA
BHEL
Thanks for the list.. I am thinking how is the bull call spread helping in this ?

Lets say stock stays below double sold calls we get predefined profit.. if stock reaches the sold call value we cover and then sell another strike with double the quantity ..

In that scenario if the bull call spread will cover a bit of loss i think ? Or is there any other benefit ?
 
#24
I am thinking how is the bull call spread helping in this ?
Since we're both Buying and Selling Calls, the Delta and Vega risks are reduced.
Or is there any other benefit ?
There are two reasons you need to consider before appreciating the benefits of this method:
1. Direction of a Stock: 70% of the time a stock either plummets or stays flat. It takes lot of effort for a stock price to move up. On the contrary, stock price falls faster than going up because of mass panic. Statistically, direction-wise, staying Short is more profitable. Having this said, I am not saying one cannot make money by Investing, its just that the other side is much more probable provided one respects the rules of the game.
2. Option Writing: Options are depreciating assets, so, Theta Decay is highly lucrative but that comes-in with many Risks and Uncertainties. First and foremost, Vega can be your friend or foe depending on the Implied Volatility (IV) and the price direction of the underlying.

Now since we are holding a bearish view on the stock (in this strategy) by selling far OTM calls, direction-wise, we do not want +ve Delta increase. Also it will be an insult to our injury when Delta increases accompanied by Vega rise (in other words, Stock price goes up rapidly). In this scenario, we want Vega to increase (if not staying flat) at Delta decrease, but not the other way round. Clearly, we can see that the "Rate of Change of Delta" (otherwise called Gamma) comes into the picture which solely determines whether to adjust or do nothing.

When we sell far OTM options IV plays the most crucial role. If you sit down with Black-Scholes model for some time you will see mathematical formulas showing that Gamma and Vega are two sides of the same coin of IV.

As individual participants, we can never control the market dynamics. So, if somehow we neutralize or reduce the Gamma effect, by default Delta and Vega risks are taken care. This bit is achieved by the "Bull Call Spread". Then we try to capitalize on Theta decay of far OTM Calls.

So, there are few rules for this strategy:
1. Avoid volatile stocks;
2. Avoid Earnings, Announcements, Result Stocks;
3. Avoid stocks that have history of going up by more than 10% in a month;
4. Follow stocks in Downtrend only (price trading below 50 MA);
5. Far OTM Strike must be above a strong resistance level (preferably from Monthly/Yearly timeframes);
6. While taking the position, far OTM Strike must be more or less at a distance of 10% from ATM Strike;
7. The position while acquiring must give +ve credit;
8. No adjustments to be made in the initial Bull-Call Spread;
9. Adjust far OTM strikes whenever required (we have already discussed in-depth how and when to adjust);
10. Do not apply this strategy in Indices.
Lets say stock stays below double sold calls we get predefined profit.. if stock reaches the sold call value we cover and then sell another strike with double the quantity ..
Yes.

I am glad that you asking these questions, because without the understanding of the core-concept, execution becomes a far-fetched goal. In a nutshell, the idea is to reduce or neutralize Gamma risk and enjoy Theta decay. The Bull-Call Spread plays the most significant role in this strategy and makes all the difference when compared to naked option writing or Short-Strangles. For months at a stretch I have contemplated, experimented, studied, sacrificed my social-family life on how to reduce risk on naked option writing or Short-Strangles and haven't found anything better.;)

Let us take an example:
VEDL Chart

1546272248493.png

As you can see if VEDL falls and stays below 200 we make Rs.9315 at expiry. If it stays between 200 and 215.60, we make maximum profit of Rs. 16,215. There is another 2L kept secured for this position to counter adjustments (if prices comes to 215-218) on top of the Total Margin required. So, easily we can make 2-3 adjustments, if VEDL starts for a rally and still come-out profitable fearlessly.
 
Last edited:

kingkrunal

Well-Known Member
#26
Since we're both Buying and Selling Calls, the Delta and Vega risks are reduced.

There are two reasons you need to consider before appreciating the benefits of this method:
1. Direction of a Stock: 70% of the time a stock either plummets or stays flat. It takes lot of effort for a stock price to move up. On the contrary, stock price falls faster than going up because of mass panic. Statistically, direction-wise, staying Short is more profitable. Having this said, I am not saying one cannot make money by Investing, its just that the other side is much more probable provided one respects the rules of the game.
2. Option Writing: Options are depreciating assets, so, Theta Decay is highly lucrative but that comes-in with many Risks and Uncertainties. First and foremost, Vega can be your friend or foe depending on the Implied Volatility (IV) and the price direction of the underlying.

Now since we are holding a bearish view on the stock (in this strategy) by selling far OTM calls, direction-wise, we do not want +ve Delta increase. Also it will be an insult to our injury when Delta increases accompanied by Vega rise (in other words, Stock price goes up rapidly). In this scenario, we want Vega to increase (if not staying flat) at Delta decrease, but not the other way round. Clearly, we can see that the "Rate of Change of Delta" (otherwise called Gamma) comes into the picture which solely determines whether to adjust or do nothing.

When we sell far OTM options IV plays the most crucial role. If you sit down with Black-Scholes model for some time you will see mathematical formulas showing that Gamma and Vega are two sides of the same coin of IV.

As individual participants, we can never control the market dynamics. So, if somehow we neutralize or reduce the Gamma effect, by default Delta and Vega risks are taken care. This bit is achieved by the "Bull Call Spread". Then we try to capitalize on Theta decay of far OTM Calls.

So, there are few rules for this strategy:
1. Avoid volatile stocks;
2. Avoid Earnings, Announcements, Result Stocks;
3. Avoid stocks that have history of going up by more than 10% in a month;
4. Follow stocks in Downtrend only (price trading below 50 MA);
5. Far OTM Strike must be above a strong resistance level (preferably from Monthly/Yearly timeframes);
6. While taking the position, far OTM Strike must be more or less at a distance of 10% from ATM Strike;
7. The position while acquiring must give +ve credit;
8. No adjustments to be made in the initial Bull-Call Spread;
9. Adjust far OTM strikes whenever required (we have already discussed in-depth how and when to adjust);
10. Do not apply this strategy in Indices.

Yes.

I am glad that you asking these questions, because without the understanding of the core-concept, execution becomes a far-fetched goal. In a nutshell, the idea is to reduce or neutralize Gamma risk and enjoy Theta decay. The Bull-Call Spread plays the most significant role in this strategy and makes all the difference when compared to naked option writing or Short-Strangles. For months at a stretch I have contemplated, experimented, studied, sacrificed my social-family life on how to reduce risk on naked option writing or Short-Strangles and haven't found anything better.;)

Let us take an example:
VEDL Chart

View attachment 32233
As you can see if VEDL falls and stays below 200 we make Rs.9315 at expiry. If it stays between 200 and 215.60, we make maximum profit of Rs. 16,215. There is another 2L kept secured for this position to counter adjustments (if prices comes to 215-218) on top of the Total Margin required. So, easily we can make 2-3 adjustments, if VEDL starts for a rally and still come-out profitable fearlessly.
Superb explanation... have to read 4-5 times but got the actual thing what it is doing inside :) Thanks a lot for sharing .. Happy New Year
 

gmt900

Well-Known Member
#27
Since we're both Buying and Selling Calls, the Delta and Vega risks are reduced.

There are two reasons you need to consider before appreciating the benefits of this method:
1. Direction of a Stock: 70% of the time a stock either plummets or stays flat. It takes lot of effort for a stock price to move up. On the contrary, stock price falls faster than going up because of mass panic. Statistically, direction-wise, staying Short is more profitable. Having this said, I am not saying one cannot make money by Investing, its just that the other side is much more probable provided one respects the rules of the game.
2. Option Writing: Options are depreciating assets, so, Theta Decay is highly lucrative but that comes-in with many Risks and Uncertainties. First and foremost, Vega can be your friend or foe depending on the Implied Volatility (IV) and the price direction of the underlying.

Now since we are holding a bearish view on the stock (in this strategy) by selling far OTM calls, direction-wise, we do not want +ve Delta increase. Also it will be an insult to our injury when Delta increases accompanied by Vega rise (in other words, Stock price goes up rapidly). In this scenario, we want Vega to increase (if not staying flat) at Delta decrease, but not the other way round. Clearly, we can see that the "Rate of Change of Delta" (otherwise called Gamma) comes into the picture which solely determines whether to adjust or do nothing.

When we sell far OTM options IV plays the most crucial role. If you sit down with Black-Scholes model for some time you will see mathematical formulas showing that Gamma and Vega are two sides of the same coin of IV.

As individual participants, we can never control the market dynamics. So, if somehow we neutralize or reduce the Gamma effect, by default Delta and Vega risks are taken care. This bit is achieved by the "Bull Call Spread". Then we try to capitalize on Theta decay of far OTM Calls.

So, there are few rules for this strategy:
1. Avoid volatile stocks;
2. Avoid Earnings, Announcements, Result Stocks;
3. Avoid stocks that have history of going up by more than 10% in a month;
4. Follow stocks in Downtrend only (price trading below 50 MA);
5. Far OTM Strike must be above a strong resistance level (preferably from Monthly/Yearly timeframes);
6. While taking the position, far OTM Strike must be more or less at a distance of 10% from ATM Strike;
7. The position while acquiring must give +ve credit;
8. No adjustments to be made in the initial Bull-Call Spread;
9. Adjust far OTM strikes whenever required (we have already discussed in-depth how and when to adjust);
10. Do not apply this strategy in Indices.

Yes.

I am glad that you asking these questions, because without the understanding of the core-concept, execution becomes a far-fetched goal. In a nutshell, the idea is to reduce or neutralize Gamma risk and enjoy Theta decay. The Bull-Call Spread plays the most significant role in this strategy and makes all the difference when compared to naked option writing or Short-Strangles. For months at a stretch I have contemplated, experimented, studied, sacrificed my social-family life on how to reduce risk on naked option writing or Short-Strangles and haven't found anything better.;)

Let us take an example:
VEDL Chart

View attachment 32233
As you can see if VEDL falls and stays below 200 we make Rs.9315 at expiry. If it stays between 200 and 215.60, we make maximum profit of Rs. 16,215. There is another 2L kept secured for this position to counter adjustments (if prices comes to 215-218) on top of the Total Margin required. So, easily we can make 2-3 adjustments, if VEDL starts for a rally and still come-out profitable fearlessly.
Since we're both Buying and Selling Calls, the Delta and Vega risks are reduced.

There are two reasons you need to consider before appreciating the benefits of this method:
1. Direction of a Stock: 70% of the time a stock either plummets or stays flat. It takes lot of effort for a stock price to move up. On the contrary, stock price falls faster than going up because of mass panic. Statistically, direction-wise, staying Short is more profitable. Having this said, I am not saying one cannot make money by Investing, its just that the other side is much more probable provided one respects the rules of the game.
2. Option Writing: Options are depreciating assets, so, Theta Decay is highly lucrative but that comes-in with many Risks and Uncertainties. First and foremost, Vega can be your friend or foe depending on the Implied Volatility (IV) and the price direction of the underlying.

Now since we are holding a bearish view on the stock (in this strategy) by selling far OTM calls, direction-wise, we do not want +ve Delta increase. Also it will be an insult to our injury when Delta increases accompanied by Vega rise (in other words, Stock price goes up rapidly). In this scenario, we want Vega to increase (if not staying flat) at Delta decrease, but not the other way round. Clearly, we can see that the "Rate of Change of Delta" (otherwise called Gamma) comes into the picture which solely determines whether to adjust or do nothing.

When we sell far OTM options IV plays the most crucial role. If you sit down with Black-Scholes model for some time you will see mathematical formulas showing that Gamma and Vega are two sides of the same coin of IV.

As individual participants, we can never control the market dynamics. So, if somehow we neutralize or reduce the Gamma effect, by default Delta and Vega risks are taken care. This bit is achieved by the "Bull Call Spread". Then we try to capitalize on Theta decay of far OTM Calls.

So, there are few rules for this strategy:
1. Avoid volatile stocks;
2. Avoid Earnings, Announcements, Result Stocks;
3. Avoid stocks that have history of going up by more than 10% in a month;
4. Follow stocks in Downtrend only (price trading below 50 MA);
5. Far OTM Strike must be above a strong resistance level (preferably from Monthly/Yearly timeframes);
6. While taking the position, far OTM Strike must be more or less at a distance of 10% from ATM Strike;
7. The position while acquiring must give +ve credit;
8. No adjustments to be made in the initial Bull-Call Spread;
9. Adjust far OTM strikes whenever required (we have already discussed in-depth how and when to adjust);
10. Do not apply this strategy in Indices.

Yes.

I am glad that you asking these questions, because without the understanding of the core-concept, execution becomes a far-fetched goal. In a nutshell, the idea is to reduce or neutralize Gamma risk and enjoy Theta decay. The Bull-Call Spread plays the most significant role in this strategy and makes all the difference when compared to naked option writing or Short-Strangles. For months at a stretch I have contemplated, experimented, studied, sacrificed my social-family life on how to reduce risk on naked option writing or Short-Strangles and haven't found anything better.;)

Let us take an example:
VEDL Chart

View attachment 32233
As you can see if VEDL falls and stays below 200 we make Rs.9315 at expiry. If it stays between 200 and 215.60, we make maximum profit of Rs. 16,215. There is another 2L kept secured for this position to counter adjustments (if prices comes to 215-218) on top of the Total Margin required. So, easily we can make 2-3 adjustments, if VEDL starts for a rally and still come-out profitable fearlessly.
Your excellent strategy and explanation got buried in the title of the thread. Thank god I chanced upon it.
Thanks and wish you more profitable trading.
 

sanju005ind

Investor, Option Writer
#28
Since we're both Buying and Selling Calls, the Delta and Vega risks are reduced.

There are two reasons you need to consider before appreciating the benefits of this method:
1. Direction of a Stock: 70% of the time a stock either plummets or stays flat. It takes lot of effort for a stock price to move up. On the contrary, stock price falls faster than going up because of mass panic. Statistically, direction-wise, staying Short is more profitable. Having this said, I am not saying one cannot make money by Investing, its just that the other side is much more probable provided one respects the rules of the game.
2. Option Writing: Options are depreciating assets, so, Theta Decay is highly lucrative but that comes-in with many Risks and Uncertainties. First and foremost, Vega can be your friend or foe depending on the Implied Volatility (IV) and the price direction of the underlying.

Now since we are holding a bearish view on the stock (in this strategy) by selling far OTM calls, direction-wise, we do not want +ve Delta increase. Also it will be an insult to our injury when Delta increases accompanied by Vega rise (in other words, Stock price goes up rapidly). In this scenario, we want Vega to increase (if not staying flat) at Delta decrease, but not the other way round. Clearly, we can see that the "Rate of Change of Delta" (otherwise called Gamma) comes into the picture which solely determines whether to adjust or do nothing.

When we sell far OTM options IV plays the most crucial role. If you sit down with Black-Scholes model for some time you will see mathematical formulas showing that Gamma and Vega are two sides of the same coin of IV.

As individual participants, we can never control the market dynamics. So, if somehow we neutralize or reduce the Gamma effect, by default Delta and Vega risks are taken care. This bit is achieved by the "Bull Call Spread". Then we try to capitalize on Theta decay of far OTM Calls.

So, there are few rules for this strategy:
1. Avoid volatile stocks;
2. Avoid Earnings, Announcements, Result Stocks;
3. Avoid stocks that have history of going up by more than 10% in a month;
4. Follow stocks in Downtrend only (price trading below 50 MA);
5. Far OTM Strike must be above a strong resistance level (preferably from Monthly/Yearly timeframes);
6. While taking the position, far OTM Strike must be more or less at a distance of 10% from ATM Strike;
7. The position while acquiring must give +ve credit;
8. No adjustments to be made in the initial Bull-Call Spread;
9. Adjust far OTM strikes whenever required (we have already discussed in-depth how and when to adjust);
10. Do not apply this strategy in Indices.

Yes.

I am glad that you asking these questions, because without the understanding of the core-concept, execution becomes a far-fetched goal. In a nutshell, the idea is to reduce or neutralize Gamma risk and enjoy Theta decay. The Bull-Call Spread plays the most significant role in this strategy and makes all the difference when compared to naked option writing or Short-Strangles. For months at a stretch I have contemplated, experimented, studied, sacrificed my social-family life on how to reduce risk on naked option writing or Short-Strangles and haven't found anything better.;)

Let us take an example:
VEDL Chart

View attachment 32233
As you can see if VEDL falls and stays below 200 we make Rs.9315 at expiry. If it stays between 200 and 215.60, we make maximum profit of Rs. 16,215. There is another 2L kept secured for this position to counter adjustments (if prices comes to 215-218) on top of the Total Margin required. So, easily we can make 2-3 adjustments, if VEDL starts for a rally and still come-out profitable fearlessly.
Need to ask @timepass to put in the list of gems which he collects. So that this valuable post does not get buried.
 

CougarTrader

Well-Known Member
#29
Dear LL sir,

Your method gives us a considerable fighting chance when all the market odds are placed against us. I am unable to think anything else apart from Options after reading your last post. Not flattering but truly there is a great level of smart beauty to your method. It is clearly evident when we compare the pay-off diagrams of naked call selling or short-strangle to the pay-off diagram shared by you.

It is simply amazing to observe that even after writing Call OTMs to a certain far resistance level we can still enhance our profits instead of getting worried of loss. At least on the short-side we are always secured, no matter what - and on the long side we are safe to a far distant resistance level because of which you are asking to select down-trending non-volatile stocks. Now if required, by adjustments we can fight for our profit. Awesome, just great! Love it! No doubt you are a true @Loss_Lover.

Thanks to YouTube I have heard of butterflies, lizards, collars, spreads, iron condors, straddle, strangle, you also please give a brand-name to your option strategy. :D

Million thanks to you for this 2019 New-Year gift.
 

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