"Acche din" for farmers..

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#21
The only real problem among all these is "IGNORANT PUBLIC". The day people stop getting fooled easily none of the smarties can sway them and do anything they like.
OK so our education system, police system, law and its implementation, judicial system, healthcare etc etc are all ok ? Please, go look outside :)

But yes good people make good govt makes good institutions makes happy life for good people.
Ignorant people make bad govt make bad institutions make happy life for bad people and sad life for the rest of us :)
 

Steve

Active Member
#22
You cant expect magic nor can you expect bureucracy and people to change overnight. Short term Poll promises are generally unrealistic but sadly it seems this is the required to sway masses.

Why do so many people expect subsidy and reservation. Why do you want subsidized loan when interest rates are high. Why should a wealthy farmer/WealthyAnybodyElse get subsidized Petrol/Loan etc. Subsidies should be targed only to the needy with the intention of giving short term support.

Yes, tax on petrol/diesel is high but you cant expect them to give up big revenue so soon with the mess that congress left behind. I even dont mind it if they could use that revenue to push solar. If Germany can do it, so can we.
High taxes are not a bad thing if used right. Just look at nordic countries. I think they have the best model that is worth replicating.

In India we are used to pessimism and dont expect govt to do anything.
Almost all public services are messed up here - education, police, complicated and brainless laws, decades-behind-judicary, no healthcare and an ignorant public.
I dont like BJP but Modi gives me hope that we will get a govt better than ever before. Beyond that i dont expect miracles.
Isn't that contradictory, cause the BJP is Modi and Modi is the BJP. All their campaigns till date, projected Modi and they won.
It was not Hindutva, the RSS, or their ideology, it was only Modi.
And frankly the Magic is slowly fading.
People want results in a jiffy and its not going to happen.

In Delhi they got overzealous, instead of concentrating on winning the Election in Delhi, they pitched their entire
BJP machinery in defeating one man Arvind Kejriwal and that could be their nemesis. 10th Feb will be the Day of
reckoning for all.(counting day).

Hoping The Best for India and the common man, whichever party rules.:thumb:
 

lazytrader

Well-Known Member
#23
Modi's target was the emerging middle class and rich. You can tell by the way Gujarat is industrialised. There is so much pollution from these industries concentrated in such a small place. You can tell who was going to benefit by looking at who was present at his swearing in ceremony.
 

Krushna

Active Member
#24
Why do so many people expect subsidy and reservation. Why do you want subsidized loan when interest rates are high. Why should a wealthy farmer/WealthyAnybodyElse get subsidized Petrol/Loan etc. Subsidies should be targed only to the needy with the intention of giving short term support.
Please dont compare apples and oranges. Even I used to think the same way until a few years ago when I was not actively involved in farming. If you are using above equation for agriculture, then why do governments topple over high onion/vegetable prices? Keep aside the allegation that those price rise were man-made, if it had occured on its own without any miscreants involved, would you be happy to pay more in such cases thinking farmers are getting a good price? Then we dont need subsidized loans when interest rates are high. So why does government steps in to lower the prices of what farmers produce by working hard day and night? Just one-two rupees increase in milk price pinches middle class and they are the first one to shout against subsidy for farmers. farmers are the worst exploited. Industrial workers have safety rules in place, fixed breaks, served tea couple of times a day, monitored working conditions ( implementation of some of these things lack, but my point is at least there are rules in place.) But what happens when a farmer working in the dead of night alone in his farm is bitten by a snake? Are there any rules and regulations and an ambulance kept ready in villages or such emergencies, like there are in industries? farmers have to work without thinking if its day or night, windy or raining, cold or hot, without worrying that in the dead of night if he is going to step on a snake or scorpion or if a wolf is at his back. I think you don't need to think over these things until you are served delicious breakfast - lunch - dinner - dessert everyday.

And pray tell me, how many of those shouting against subsidy for farmers would willingly give up subsidy they recieve on gas cylinder? Have you, TracerBullet? If yes, then I salute you.

Plus this swach bharat abhiyan cess on internet and mobile is the worst plan this government can come up with. No amount of money can make india clean, if the common man keeps littering it 10 times a day as he moves around. Modi should realise this. And if he still thinks that spendin money can make india clean, the he will have to employ 10% of india's population in this task as one person would be needed to clean the rubbish thrown away by every ten people on a daily basis.

And the first time I was disillusioned with Modi was when he appointed Smriti Irani as HRD minister. Didnt he get anyone better? And left me wonderin.... I voted a man who appointed Smriti Irani as HRD minister? :confused:
 
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TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
#25
Please dont compare apples and oranges. Even I used to think the same way until a few years ago when I was not actively involved in farming. If you are using above equation for agriculture, then why do governments topple over high onion/vegetable prices? Keep aside the allegation that those price rise were man-made, if it had occured on its own without any miscreants involved, would you be happy to pay more in such cases thinking farmers are getting a good price? Then we dont need subsidized loans when interest rates are high. So why does government steps in to lower the prices of what farmers produce by working hard day and night? Just one-two rupees increase in milk price pinches middle class and they are the first one to shout against subsidy for farmers. farmers are the worst exploited.
I understand you view and anger.
Yes, you are correct, subsidies and price controls without thought create imbalances everywhere. All prices should in general be decontrolled within reason. Market driven prices without manipulation are probably going to more efficient for demand supply. The only place where i think this is not necessarily right is healthcare as it can become extortion and you need goverment/public control.

There are probably complications, and exceptions may be needed if other countries dont play fair but i think in general you would agree.

Industrial workers have safety rules in place, fixed breaks, served tea couple of times a day, monitored working conditions ( implementation of some of these things lack, but my point is at least there are rules in place.) But what happens when a farmer working in the dead of night alone in his farm is bitten by a snake? Are there any rules and regulations and an ambulance kept ready in villages or such emergencies, like there are in industries? farmers have to work without thinking if its day or night, windy or raining, cold or hot, without worrying that in the dead of night if he is going to step on a snake or scorpion or if a wolf is at his back. I think you don't need to think over these things until you are served delicious breakfast - lunch - dinner - dessert everyday.
Ideally, you dont have half of your (mostly poor) population dependent on farming. Big farmers should have the necessary expertise and equipment to manage their risks and should hopefully also be able to raise voice to have adequate medical contingencies in place. What you say will be applicable to everyone who are not near Hospitals.

In Mumbai, sometimes people dont even help if someone had an accident. Two guys in my college died because they didnt get emergency care in time.
Emergency care and heathcare in general is messed up for most people in India barring, perhaps, the wealthy. I rather have universal health care with higher taxes than bhagwan-bharose chalta-hai so-called-capitalist system that we have for most people. What will a 3/5/10 lakh health insurance policy do if you are unfortunate to get something that needs much more... Poor people on roads cant even manage that.

And pray tell me, how many of those shouting against subsidy for farmers would willingly give up subsidy they recieve on gas cylinder? Have you, TracerBullet? If yes, then I salute you.
I would gladly vote for their abolition. But i will not refuse subsidy in the name of nation building while others still take it and which i indirectly pay for. That is just cop-out from politicians who cant think beyond the next elections.

Think about it, petrol/disel/gas subsidies are absolutely moronic. They are anyway unfair. Moreever India mostly imports these. Higher prices get subsidized and demand does not reduce. Our cad f**ks up. Look at usa, high prices reduced demand immediately some years back and then they innovate and use technology to change.

Sometimes i think our congress/others oil ministers get paid by gulf countries to keep this system. Stupid media keeps crying about their prices. Maybe just cynical.

Plus this swach bharat abhiyan cess on internet and mobile is the worst plan this government can come up with. No amount of money can make india clean, if the common man keeps littering it 10 times a day as he moves around. Modi should realise this. And if he still thinks that spendin money can make india clean, the he will have to employ 10% of india's population in this task as one person would be needed to clean the rubbish thrown away by every ten people on a daily basis.

And the first time I was disillusioned with Modi was when he appointed Smriti Irani as HRD minister. Didnt he get anyone better? And left me wonderin.... I voted a man who appointed Smriti Irani as HRD minister? :confused:
I dont know about the cess. We have all kind of cesses everywhere and they hardly work. Inefficient and corrupt govts result in funds scarcity and so apply cesses everywhere to fill their election promise cards without caring for implementatiom.

Swach bharat abhiyan in concept is very important. India should change if it wants to be a developed country. Need stick and carrot. So far i hope and believe that his intentions are correct and lets pray he and others can implement it. Just go outside and see how people in developed countries maintain their surroundings vs here. In Mumbai there is dust and garbage everywhere.

Cant argue about Irani. Political compulsions i guess but its a bit sad that education is used for politics. Education quality sucks execpt for the iits and iims which cover only few. Why should a less than brilliant child get inferior education making him even less able. Although i went to decent-in-name colleges i can say my entire school to engineering time was mostly a waste of time. Ofcourse i am better off with it but it was mostly substandard and chalta-hai. Coursera is wonderful though.

Research is nothing compared to foreign univs. In scandinavia they pay you for masters ...

I still think this may become the best govt we have ever had. Which is not saying much as we are used to corrupt and inefficient govt who get in the way. Too many probems in India but lets hope we see a better one in next decade. Ok, now i wrote enough. i understand what you say but we need people to think for longer term.
 
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Riskyman

Well-Known Member
#26
Ah I ws just about to start a thread on MODI today after i came back from my grocery and vegetable shopping and look I found this thread.

So here is what happened. I stopped at a roadside veggie vendor. chose my vegetables and asked him to keep it aside. Said to him i would pick it up on my way back. I went ahead to buy my beer etc. 45 mins later, I landed at the veggie vendor and asked for my stuff and he says " Sahab mujhe laga aap nahi aayenge". So i said " Aree yaar insaan pe thoda tho barosa karo. Maine bola mein aaunga aur mein aa gaya". His reply shocked me. He said " Arre sahab kiss pe kya barosa karein? Modi pe barosa kiya aur usne bhi dhoka diya". I stood there shell shocked. I couldnt figure out what modi had to do with me buying vegetables.

I spent the next 20 minutes talking to him. He said " Modi aane ke baad, pura dandha kam ho gaya hai sahab". He went on to explain how he was making 500-600 bucks a day earlier and now his daily income had dropped to 400. He said " Log sabzi kam khane lage hai. Sabzi ke daam bhi kam nahi ho raha hai. Aloo 35/- kilo hai tho kaun khayega sahab". These were his words.

Time to buy fruits. I walked ahead to my regular fruit vendor. I usually just limit my conversation to the quality of fruits even though ive been buying from her for the last 5 years. This time i popped a question about how her dandha was. Her reply " dandha ek saal se mandha hai sahab Koi fruit leta hi nahi hai. 10 rs ka ek orange kitna log khayega. 3 rs ka kela garib nahi kha raha hai. 10 rs mein paanch kela ata tha. ab sirf 3 kela milta hai. Dandha kaise chalega sahab??"

Now i was very determined to find out more. My next stop was my regular cigarettewala. I asked " Modi sarkar banne ke baad kuch accha hua kya aap ke liye?" His reply " Haan sahab hua na. 50 rupay ka sasta toor dal 90 rupay ka ho gaya hai. Accha kya hai is mein? Modi ne ch*t*ya banaya humko".

This may be a small sample of people i talked to. I often hear the "dandha mandha hai" line everywhere i go. But i can tell that people are feeling let down. The stuff they expected are not being delivered. Im not saying that its easy to deliver in less than a year but this is more or less what i hear from poor people.

In my personal opinion, true development is when the "true benefits" of the so called development starts trickling down to the poorest of the poor people in the society. When the poor have money to buy food. When the poor can buy healthcare etc. There is no deveopment if it doesnt embrace the poorest and the weakest of the society.

My personal grouse with Modi government is that they said they would get the BLACK MONEY in 100 days if they come to power. I guess no one expected them to get all the money in 100 days but im sure everyone expected the Modi govt to kick some a*s and get the process of getting the money back started. Modi govt promised that everyone would have 15 lakhs their bank ac if they got the black money back. I would be happy if i got even one rupee so far in this account.

Om Namo namah!!:D
 

Riskyman

Well-Known Member
#27
I recently had a friend come down to visit me from Norway on his first visit to India. 20 mins on the road after getting out of the Mumbai air port and his words were " If there was so much difference between the rich and poor in my country, there would have been bloodshed". He further went on to add that norway GDP was only 2.2 percent and the richest of the rich on an average were only rich by 4 times than the poor people. Compare this to the rich and poor in India. The rich are atleast a few thousand times richer.

I sometimes watch a very popular TV channel and the hosts of the show Latha and sonia are painting a rosy picture of our economy and how we are receiving 20 Bn usd in FII flows a year. I throw up laughing when i realize that a lot of fund managers in the US manage anything from 200-500 Bn fund and here we are celebrating a 20 bn usd inflow. Its a fact that indian markets are at the mercy of FII money. If they pull out half their exposure our domestic guys LIC and others collectively put together cannot absorb the sell off. And we celebrate Nifty at 9000. WoW.

Im really not a a pessimist but its good to have reality checks every now and then.
 
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#28
You cant expect magic nor can you expect bureucracy and people to change overnight. Short term Poll promises are generally unrealistic but sadly it seems this is the required to sway masses.

Why do so many people expect subsidy and reservation. Why do you want subsidized loan when interest rates are high. Why should a wealthy farmer/WealthyAnybodyElse get subsidized Petrol/Loan etc. Subsidies should be targed only to the needy with the intention of giving short term support.

Yes, tax on petrol/diesel is high but you cant expect them to give up big revenue so soon with the mess that congress left behind. I even dont mind it if they could use that revenue to push solar. If Germany can do it, so can we.
High taxes are not a bad thing if used right. Just look at nordic countries. I think they have the best model that is worth replicating.

In India we are used to pessimism and dont expect govt to do anything.
Almost all public services are messed up here - education, police, complicated and brainless laws, decades-behind-judicary, no healthcare and an ignorant public.
I dont like BJP but Modi gives me hope that we will get a govt better than ever before. Beyond that i dont expect miracles.
yeah sure, look at the Nordic countries - the ministers travel by public transport. The prime minister's kids study in the same schools as the peons..

God forbid if you are "invited" to attend a function where Modi is expected, specially not for school kids.
 

Riskyman

Well-Known Member
#29
yeah sure, look at the Nordic countries - the ministers travel by public transport. The prime minister's kids study in the same schools as the peons..

God forbid if you are "invited" to attend a function where Modi is expected, specially not for school kids.

What a co-incidence. I was writing something about norway a few mins ago
 

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