10% per month..Possible?
- Thread starter amitglinkedin
- Start date
There is a saying - Novice/Newbie always think about the potential profits :lol: but the experienced always think about in terms of risk:reward and capital protection/Money management
.In short experienced always accepts what ever profits the markets give but always cut their losses to protect their capital.In short one doesn't keep fixed target as they cannot control the price movement of tech mahindra but can control only their actions
.Having said that will tell the experience of an (experienced :thumb
trader in crude oil.He Was working as a branch head of some brokerage firm for a salary of 65K/month.
He is having at most passion for trading and well disciplined and patient trader.
So Resigned the job and took sub broker of the firm where he worked.
Started Trading for himself with his savings as well he is managing his clients accounts.
He is having a well backtested system.
He didn't disclose his capital or system.But he emphasized the importance of sufficient capital if one wants to trade for living.5Lakhs at least or more.
For a Capital every 1Lakh he trades just 1 lot of crude. Doesn't trade 10 lots of crude oil for every 1Lakh ie doesn't trade on the minimum margin requirement of 10K per lot for crude despite being a sub broker.keeps sufficient capital though he is well aware of the positive expectancy of his system.
He is never greedy,he is not afraid of the markets,he is calm and confident.
He said he is making consistent returns.
He said he trades his system without second guessing.
He is well aware of maximum draw down of his system.Worst case no of losses etc.
Every signal he places fixed stop of 20 points and 16 points profit target.
(He controls his action with discipline - trade management and risk).
He said I never keep any monthly target but accepts what ever market gives.
I control what I can ie risk and trade management.:thumb:
Daily 2 to 3 trades.Monthly average 50 trades.
Trades 10M TF - so less no of trades.Trades leisurely which suits his personality.No over trading.
Sticks on to crude oil alone - he has mastered the movement of Crude oil alone.
No over night positions.So no carry over risks.
On an average the success ratio is 6-7 trades and 3 to 4 trades loss.
so worst case (6*16-4*20) * 5 = 16*5 = 80 points or 8000 rs.Profit
Best case (7*16-3*20)*5 = (112-60)*5 = 260 points or 26000 Rs profit.
So on an average his trading system and his choice of trading element(crude) returns between 8K to 26K per one lakh investment every month/Per Lot.
Less Internet/brokerage and commissions/chart charges - 4k.
(Taking the worst case scenario of just 2 out of 10 trades Net successful and average of just 1.6 points per trade positive expectancy a system can reach the target of 8% on 10 times the Margin - capital)
Finally he said NEVER BE GREEDY OR AFRAID.When emotions are weeded out(Most difficult part) and Trading become ones second nature money will follow such Traders automatically.
So yes it is possible to achieve 10% consistently but difficult though
Last edited:
Thank You Sir, Your detailed explanation helps.
There is a saying - Novice/Newbie always think about the potential profits :lol: but the experienced always think about in terms of risk:reward and capital protection/Money management .
In short experienced always accepts what ever profits the markets give but always cut their losses to protect their capital.In short one doesn't keep fixed target as they cannot control the price movement of tech mahindra but can control only their actions.
Having said that will tell the experience of an (experienced :thumb trader in crude oil.
He Was working as a branch head of some brokerage firm for a salary of 65K/month.
He is having at most passion for trading and well disciplined and patient trader.
So Resigned the job and took sub broker of the firm where he worked.
Started Trading for himself with his savings as well he is managing his clients accounts.
He is having a well backtested system.
He didn't disclose his capital or system.But he emphasized the importance of sufficient capital if one wants to trade for living.5Lakhs at least or more.
For a Capital every 1Lakh he trades just 1 lot of crude. Doesn't trade 10 lots of crude oil for every 1Lakh ie doesn't trade on the minimum margin requirement of 10K per lot for crude despite being a sub broker.keeps sufficient capital though he is well aware of the positive expectancy of his system.
He is never greedy,he is not afraid of the markets,he is calm and confident.
He said he is making consistent returns.
He said he trades his system without second guessing.
He is well aware of maximum draw down of his system.Worst case no of losses etc.
Every signal he places fixed stop of 20 points and 16 points profit target.
(He controls his action with discipline - trade management and risk).
He said I never keep any monthly target but accepts what ever market gives.
I control what I can ie risk and trade management.:thumb:
Daily 2 to 3 trades.Monthly average 50 trades.
Trades 10M TF - so less no of trades.Trades leisurely which suits his personality.No over trading.
Sticks on to crude oil alone - he has mastered the movement of Crude oil alone.
No over night positions.So no carry over risks.
On an average the success ratio is 6-7 trades and 3 to 4 trades loss.
so worst case (6*16-4*20) * 5 = 16*5 = 80 points or 8000 rs.Profit
Best case (7*16-3*20)*5 = (112-60)*5 = 260 points or 26000 Rs profit.
So on an average his trading system and his choice of trading element(crude) returns between 8K to 26K per one lakh investment every month/Per Lot.
Less Internet/brokerage and commissions/chart charges - 4k.
(Taking the worst case scenario of just 2 out of 10 trades Net successful and average of just 1.6 points per trade positive expectancy a system can reach the target of 8% on 10 times the Margin - capital)
Finally he said NEVER BE GREEDY OR AFRAID.When emotions are weeded out(Most difficult part) and Trading become ones second nature money will follow such Traders automatically.
So yes it is possible to achieve 10% consistently but difficult though
.In short experienced always accepts what ever profits the markets give but always cut their losses to protect their capital.In short one doesn't keep fixed target as they cannot control the price movement of tech mahindra but can control only their actions
.Having said that will tell the experience of an (experienced :thumb
trader in crude oil.He Was working as a branch head of some brokerage firm for a salary of 65K/month.
He is having at most passion for trading and well disciplined and patient trader.
So Resigned the job and took sub broker of the firm where he worked.
Started Trading for himself with his savings as well he is managing his clients accounts.
He is having a well backtested system.
He didn't disclose his capital or system.But he emphasized the importance of sufficient capital if one wants to trade for living.5Lakhs at least or more.
For a Capital every 1Lakh he trades just 1 lot of crude. Doesn't trade 10 lots of crude oil for every 1Lakh ie doesn't trade on the minimum margin requirement of 10K per lot for crude despite being a sub broker.keeps sufficient capital though he is well aware of the positive expectancy of his system.
He is never greedy,he is not afraid of the markets,he is calm and confident.
He said he is making consistent returns.
He said he trades his system without second guessing.
He is well aware of maximum draw down of his system.Worst case no of losses etc.
Every signal he places fixed stop of 20 points and 16 points profit target.
(He controls his action with discipline - trade management and risk).
He said I never keep any monthly target but accepts what ever market gives.
I control what I can ie risk and trade management.:thumb:
Daily 2 to 3 trades.Monthly average 50 trades.
Trades 10M TF - so less no of trades.Trades leisurely which suits his personality.No over trading.
Sticks on to crude oil alone - he has mastered the movement of Crude oil alone.
No over night positions.So no carry over risks.
On an average the success ratio is 6-7 trades and 3 to 4 trades loss.
so worst case (6*16-4*20) * 5 = 16*5 = 80 points or 8000 rs.Profit
Best case (7*16-3*20)*5 = (112-60)*5 = 260 points or 26000 Rs profit.
So on an average his trading system and his choice of trading element(crude) returns between 8K to 26K per one lakh investment every month/Per Lot.
Less Internet/brokerage and commissions/chart charges - 4k.
(Taking the worst case scenario of just 2 out of 10 trades Net successful and average of just 1.6 points per trade positive expectancy a system can reach the target of 8% on 10 times the Margin - capital)
Finally he said NEVER BE GREEDY OR AFRAID.When emotions are weeded out(Most difficult part) and Trading become ones second nature money will follow such Traders automatically.
So yes it is possible to achieve 10% consistently but difficult though
Think in terms of losses you can bear in a month. Will you stop trading for the month when your trading account is down by 5%.
Another emotional challenge is drawdown. Can you be emotionally stable enough when drawdown reaches 40-50% of account.
Can you withstand continuous loosing months?
If you plan well all these, then your expected return is not far.
Another emotional challenge is drawdown. Can you be emotionally stable enough when drawdown reaches 40-50% of account.
Can you withstand continuous loosing months?
If you plan well all these, then your expected return is not far.
There is a saying - Novice/Newbie always think about the potential profits :lol: but the experienced always think about in terms of risk:reward and capital protection/Money management .
In short experienced always accepts what ever profits the markets give but always cut their losses to protect their capital.In short one doesn't keep fixed target as they cannot control the price movement of tech mahindra but can control only their actions.
Having said that will tell the experience of an (experienced :thumb trader in crude oil.
He Was working as a branch head of some brokerage firm for a salary of 65K/month.
He is having at most passion for trading and well disciplined and patient trader.
So Resigned the job and took sub broker of the firm where he worked.
Started Trading for himself with his savings as well he is managing his clients accounts.
He is having a well backtested system.
He didn't disclose his capital or system.But he emphasized the importance of sufficient capital if one wants to trade for living.5Lakhs at least or more.
For a Capital every 1Lakh he trades just 1 lot of crude. Doesn't trade 10 lots of crude oil for every 1Lakh ie doesn't trade on the minimum margin requirement of 10K per lot for crude despite being a sub broker.keeps sufficient capital though he is well aware of the positive expectancy of his system.
He is never greedy,he is not afraid of the markets,he is calm and confident.
He said he is making consistent returns.
He said he trades his system without second guessing.
He is well aware of maximum draw down of his system.Worst case no of losses etc.
Every signal he places fixed stop of 20 points and 16 points profit target.
(He controls his action with discipline - trade management and risk).
He said I never keep any monthly target but accepts what ever market gives.
I control what I can ie risk and trade management.:thumb:
Daily 2 to 3 trades.Monthly average 50 trades.
Trades 10M TF - so less no of trades.Trades leisurely which suits his personality.No over trading.
Sticks on to crude oil alone - he has mastered the movement of Crude oil alone.
No over night positions.So no carry over risks.
On an average the success ratio is 6-7 trades and 3 to 4 trades loss.
so worst case (6*16-4*20) * 5 = 16*5 = 80 points or 8000 rs.Profit
Best case (7*16-3*20)*5 = (112-60)*5 = 260 points or 26000 Rs profit.
So on an average his trading system and his choice of trading element(crude) returns between 8K to 26K per one lakh investment every month/Per Lot.
Less Internet/brokerage and commissions/chart charges - 4k.
(Taking the worst case scenario of just 2 out of 10 trades Net successful and average of just 1.6 points per trade positive expectancy a system can reach the target of 8% on 10 times the Margin - capital)
Finally he said NEVER BE GREEDY OR AFRAID.When emotions are weeded out(Most difficult part) and Trading become ones second nature money will follow such Traders automatically.
So yes it is possible to achieve 10% consistently but difficult though
.In short experienced always accepts what ever profits the markets give but always cut their losses to protect their capital.In short one doesn't keep fixed target as they cannot control the price movement of tech mahindra but can control only their actions
.Having said that will tell the experience of an (experienced :thumb
trader in crude oil.He Was working as a branch head of some brokerage firm for a salary of 65K/month.
He is having at most passion for trading and well disciplined and patient trader.
So Resigned the job and took sub broker of the firm where he worked.
Started Trading for himself with his savings as well he is managing his clients accounts.
He is having a well backtested system.
He didn't disclose his capital or system.But he emphasized the importance of sufficient capital if one wants to trade for living.5Lakhs at least or more.
For a Capital every 1Lakh he trades just 1 lot of crude. Doesn't trade 10 lots of crude oil for every 1Lakh ie doesn't trade on the minimum margin requirement of 10K per lot for crude despite being a sub broker.keeps sufficient capital though he is well aware of the positive expectancy of his system.
He is never greedy,he is not afraid of the markets,he is calm and confident.
He said he is making consistent returns.
He said he trades his system without second guessing.
He is well aware of maximum draw down of his system.Worst case no of losses etc.
Every signal he places fixed stop of 20 points and 16 points profit target.
(He controls his action with discipline - trade management and risk).
He said I never keep any monthly target but accepts what ever market gives.
I control what I can ie risk and trade management.:thumb:
Daily 2 to 3 trades.Monthly average 50 trades.
Trades 10M TF - so less no of trades.Trades leisurely which suits his personality.No over trading.
Sticks on to crude oil alone - he has mastered the movement of Crude oil alone.
No over night positions.So no carry over risks.
On an average the success ratio is 6-7 trades and 3 to 4 trades loss.
so worst case (6*16-4*20) * 5 = 16*5 = 80 points or 8000 rs.Profit
Best case (7*16-3*20)*5 = (112-60)*5 = 260 points or 26000 Rs profit.
So on an average his trading system and his choice of trading element(crude) returns between 8K to 26K per one lakh investment every month/Per Lot.
Less Internet/brokerage and commissions/chart charges - 4k.
(Taking the worst case scenario of just 2 out of 10 trades Net successful and average of just 1.6 points per trade positive expectancy a system can reach the target of 8% on 10 times the Margin - capital)
Finally he said NEVER BE GREEDY OR AFRAID.When emotions are weeded out(Most difficult part) and Trading become ones second nature money will follow such Traders automatically.
So yes it is possible to achieve 10% consistently but difficult though
Great to hear ......is he a discretionary trader or system based or both......i guess the last......I also trade mostly crude oil and gave experienced the above in practice that being "Afraid" is no good in crude oil trading. Having some whipsaws and often gaps ...... Intra trading is better and such returns are possible...... Problem comes in when you get these returns and therefore then want to scale in more.....!!!!! ( greed aspect)
He is trading based on the System signals.That's what he said.
No discretion.
Every trade the stop is 2000 rs so i.e 2% risk per trade per lot per lakh.
Every lakh of capital appreciation add 1 more lot.
Follow the rules.No violation of MM.
Though I was wondering why he has kept the risk to reward at 1:0.8 or 2000 to 1600rs.
If 1:1 the system performance increases from 8 to 20 %.
Can you share your experience regarding the Risk:Reward.
No discretion.
Every trade the stop is 2000 rs so i.e 2% risk per trade per lot per lakh.
Every lakh of capital appreciation add 1 more lot
.Follow the rules.No violation of MM.
Though I was wondering why he has kept the risk to reward at 1:0.8 or 2000 to 1600rs.
If 1:1 the system performance increases from 8 to 20 %.
Can you share your experience regarding the Risk:Reward.
Last edited:
He is trading based on the System signals.That's what he said.
No discretion.
Every trade the stop is 2000 rs so i.e 2% risk per trade per lot per lakh.
Every lakh of capital appreciation add 1 more lot.
Follow the rules.No violation of MM.
Though I was wondering why he has kept the risk to reward at 1:0.8 or 2000 to 1600rs.
If 1:1 the system performance increases from 8 to 20 %.
Can you share your experience regarding the Risk:Reward.
No discretion.
Every trade the stop is 2000 rs so i.e 2% risk per trade per lot per lakh.
Every lakh of capital appreciation add 1 more lot
.Follow the rules.No violation of MM.
Though I was wondering why he has kept the risk to reward at 1:0.8 or 2000 to 1600rs.
If 1:1 the system performance increases from 8 to 20 %.
Can you share your experience regarding the Risk:Reward.
I have seen some people trade with risk : reward such as above where reward is lesser than risk but their system will have around 70% winning trades as per huge back tested data of around 1 year minimum. My cousin trades with 1:0.75 with 75% winning trades.
So in this case,
(0.75 * 75) - (1 * 25) = 31.25% return per 100 trades if 1% of capital is at risk every trade.
This is possible for fading systems mostly rather than trend following systems.
:thumb:
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