Trade Smart Online

Creep

Active Member
I am very sure you are visiting this section for improving your trading skill...first practice what you preach ..why waste your time on visiting this thread if you yourself are doing what You have asked me to do...these suggestions were meant for Smarttradeonline...and from your immediate reply I can see how enthusiastic you are in preaching instead of improving your trading skill by visiting some other threads...hope that will make you a better trader...:D
Hey Sumit,

I am not an active trader, my interest presently is on how brokers work, their balance sheet, customer support etc and put up a report on the future of broking business in India. I visit these threads just to see what these discount brokers are doing as they are vocal on these threads.
Also what I have realized after interaction with a lot of people on these threads, most of the people who are most vocal are probably the smallest of the active trading community in india. People who believe they know how to trade the markets, but don't. You guys probably have lesser than 1lk in your account and hope to make a living out of it and assume that lower brokerage will help you get there.
The first important thing for a professional day trader is to be well capitalized, in the US most brokers don't let a day trader open an account without 25,000USD in the account. With Rs 50,000 in your account and if you target to make Rs 50,000 every month, you know that there is no way in the world you will make it, even with zero brokerage.
It will also be very helpful, if someone on this thread can tell me that by shifting from brokers who were charging more, if any of you have actually made profits by shifting to the low cost brokers?
It is not preaching, I have seen over the last 6 months several people who day trade and make money, but I can assure you that they don't focus on lower brokerage, yes it helps but focus on the more important aspects like trading strategies etc.
Here is a place I give Zerodha a few marks, probably because they have the first mover advantage of starting all of this that today they are offering a bunch of tools which are very interesting. For eg, backtesting a strategy before implementing, I have been using Viratech which was charging almost 50k/year just on data for metastock. Last week I subscribed to AMibroker and data from globaldatafeeds for Rs 1000/month as a zerodha client. Tried the trading plugin and works like a dream.. Tools like these are helpful and if they can be done by saving costs...
I have studied the balance sheet of atleast 100 stock broking companies in India, I was the one to point out that achievers who claimed to be in the market for over 10 years and amongst the biggest brokers in the country actually had a revenue of Rs 10lks last year.. :) .. I was trying to find for smarttradeonline.in, realized only today that they are not really a company, the parent company is someone else.. Will post you here, how they have been performing over the last 3 years as a company.. Would you want to trade with a broker like achievers who in their first pitch itself are misleading their prospective clients or would you want to park your hardearned money with a loss making stock broker, what if he goes down??

Anyways, small thing I'd want to share, from the 100 odd profitable traders whom I have interacted, one common book suggested by 80% of them to read was Japanese candlestick Charting Techniques by Steve Nison.

Merry Xmas!!!
 
i had written that i will write after going through a comparison of all these discount broking firms
and i am posting this in smarttradeonline because i have reached the conclusion that in present circumstances they are the best and have the most simple and easy to understand plain vanilla offering.i am a trader and i will go with anyone who can help me save extra bucksand if more than 95% of traders loose money i will at least try to ensure that i save the maximum which i can do in terms of brokerage


and the discount broking firms which i have selected for comparison are 1.)smarttradeonline 2.)zerodha 3.)rskv 4.)achievers 5.)composite edge and 6.)bezel

in our quest for looking for the best deal many a times we make a mistake of overlooking some other vital factors like transaction charges ..the main heading under which i have found some broking firms to indulge in some practices which according to me can not be even justified and i am sure if not today then tomorrow all of these broking firms will have to stop charging extra under the pretext of some extra clearing charges ..so then that difference will also disappear.. Its going to be a long post..so have patience


1.) zerodha..its one entity i have found to be the most expensive at present and right now i am trading with them only.i trade mostly in futuresand so the comparison i will post is based on futures tradingi saw my volume activity for this month till date and found out that i had traded for more than 4 croreswith a small capitalwe traders trade so muchand to my horror i realized that i have been paying rs. 250/crore extra to zerodha (as zerodha charges rs. 490/crore in futures) compared to smarttradeonline which according to the latest update provided is charging rs. 240/crore as transaction chargesso i realize that just by trading with smarttradeonline i would have saved rs. 1000/till now ..considering myself as a case study and extrapolating this to 12 months..in a year i would be able to save at least 12000/ by trading with smarttradeonline instead with zerodha.and to extrapolate it furtherconsider someone who trades to the tune of 10 crores in a monthsaving would be rs. 2500/month and in a year one would save at least rs. 30000/ just because of lower transaction charges.and for a person who trades to the extent of rs. 20 crores in a month the similar saving would be to the tune of rs. 5000/month and rs. 60000 in a yearhuge by any standardsso zerodha is expensive by a huge marginand the comparison is just base on brokerage being chargedand rs. 15/order charged by smarttradeonline is again better than rs. 20/order charged by zerodha.so for small traders like me and big traders alike it translates into huge savings in terms of brokerage being charged


2.)composite edge: Another bangalore based firm.it again looses because of its heavy transaction charges of rs. 450/crore in futuresno need to explain in detail.as same logic which applied to zerodha applies to composite edge also


3.)bezel: It charges rs. 7/lotand its transaction charges are rs. 250/crore in futuresso i consider it as a good value for money at the same time the eligibility being an advanced brokerage of 9999/ to be paid in advance(applicable for six months)the offering becomes rs. 1666.5/month irrespective of the fact whether one has traded or notat the same time if one is confident that one will trade more one can find some value in this offering but in my personal opinion this condition of 9999/ to be paid as advanced brokerage that too in 6 months only makes it an unattractive proposition ..if they can come up with an offering rs. 7/lot irrespective of any pre-condition as stated above they would make some sense


4.) rskvit offers trading unlimted for 1947/month..this is extremely attractive for people who trade bigcombine it with the fact that they charge rs. 230/crore as transaction charges in futures rskv makes immense senseand smarttradeonline offers 1899/month for unlimited trading.technically not much of a difference if one compares the unlimited plan of both of these firmsalmost the same.at the same time where i found that smarttradeonline has an advantage is because of it offering along with unlimited plan rs. 15/order.consider a small trader like me if i put only 100 orders in a month at the rate of 5 orders per day considering that there are approx. 20 trading sessions in a monthwhen i opt for rs. 15/order i pay rs. 1500 to smarttradeonline and rs. 1947 to rskvbecause they do not have this option of rs. 15/orderand if at all i put only 50 orders in a month i would pay only rs. 750 to smarttradeonline whereas i would have to pay rs. 1947 to rskv..smarttradeonline scores because of its flexibility of providing rs. 15/order facility along with rs. 1899/unlimited per monthstill for someone who trade big timethere wont be much differencebut for those who may not trade as bigsmarttradeonline because of the variety in its offering scores over rskv.


5.)achievers: Now coming to achieversif one takes a cursory look it appears that the achievers have an offering which is unbeatable in the marketsat the rate of 1499 for 3 monthsthe monthly charges for unlimited trading comes to rs. 500/monthgoing strictly by the message which these charges give even i thought that most probably they are the best or cheapest..whatever we callbut scrutinising further again led me to the conclusion that smarttradeonlines offering is better..
Smarttradeonline has yesterday come up with an offer where first 100 people from traderji would not be charged anything for account openingso myself being among those supposed 100..and thinking of a switchover because of lower charges.for me the charges of switching becomes literally zerosoft trade has informed that achievers charges rs. 750/ for account opening and rs. 450 / for dphere it is important because achievers do not open only trading accountsone needs to open a dp along with a trading accountso overall my initial cost of switching over becomes rs. 1200/ and my cost of switching to smarttradeonline is zero..nilbecause i am a trade and i am only interested in opening a trading account..not a dp.rs. 1200 to me means 80 orders at smarttradeonline at the cost of rs. 15/order..so when i decide to go with smarttradeonline instead of achievers i start with an edge of at least 80 orders
as i have written earlier god lies in detailsagainin the case of achievers the transaction charges in futures are rs. 390/crorecompared with rs. 240/crore with smarttradeonlinewhich translates to rs. 150/crore extra.for someone like me whose trading volume is to the tune of 4 crores the extra which i have to pay comes to rs. 600so for me the charges for trading unlimited becomes rs. 1100/month instead of rs. 500/ going by what is on offer.still if i am sure that normally i am going to the tune of rs. 4 croreachievers does make a good value proposition.and for anyone who trades to the tune of more than 10 crores.the extra transaction charges which one will have to pay in futures compared to smarttradeonline would be rs. 1500/month extra.so anyone who trades for more than rs. 10 crores this proposition becomes unviable comparatively.because along with paying 500/month one has to pay rs. 1500/month extra because of its higher transaction charges..so in effect anyone trading for 10 crores one needs to pay rs. 2000/month extra compared to smarttradeonline where one has to pay rs. 1899/month.for unlimited trading.now this comparison was for a person who trades for more than 10 crores/monthnow consider someone who trades less.someone who puts only 30 orders in a month ..one pays only rs. 450 to smarttradeonline compared to rs. 500/month plus the extra one has to pay because of higher transaction chargesand when i opt for smarttradeonline i am already getting around first 80 orders as free because achievers would be charging rs. 1200/as trading and dp chargesat the same time if achievers and other entities come up with something similar thus heating up this competition in the discount broking business..because as a trader i am definitely looking to save some bucksand i would be more than just happy to see the competition intensifying in this segment..


Everyone has his own business modelat the same time i am speaking highly of smarttradeonline because of flexibility in its approach.not only smarttradeonline is the best in terms of unlimited trading (better than even rskv..which i considered to be the best before this offer came ..) even when it comes to brokerage per order at present it is the best because of its rs. 15/order better than zerodhas offer of rs. 20/orderwith zerodha and composite edge it offers a better value proposition because of its lower transaction chargesagain .7 paisa offer is also the best i have heard till now..and here i am not taking into account some broking firms which offer even .5 paisa to some of the customersbut since it is not in the public domainand its known only to a fewthere is no point discussing this.


I reckon smarttradeonline to be the best because they have made efforts to offer best of both the worldshow much this remix appeals to traders only time will tellat the same time the combination of offerings which smarttradeonline has offered makes it undoubtedly the best offering in the discount segmentand i sincerely appreciate smarttradeonlines effort to make a mark in the broking business by coming up with an offering which is highly flexible (one can go for unlimited trading/one can go for rs. 15/order iffer/one can go for .7 paisa offer)at the same time along with being highly flexible the offerings are also best in the various segments..this is what i likeone can always choose based on ones trading patternsand decide the offering to go for..this is one thing i found missing in all the discount broking firms..one has to either go for fixed monthly plan or fixed per order or fixed brokerage..smarttradeonline is the only entity which provides for the flexibility of opting for any offering which suits best ones trading requirement..this was what i found missing in all the discount broking firms.flexibility..the bestbrokerage on offer..the besttransaction charges..the bestwhat more can a trader ask for? I am going to be among first few who would start trading with you.

Since the platform is nsenowi have nothing else to know.the platform is among the most stable..thanks smarttradeonline for coming up with a value proposition which takes into account the aspirations of every type of traderswhether big or small like me
long post indeed but to end this debate surrounding the best brokerage i thought it fit to do some research on it and make everyone aware of some hidden charges which a few may not be aware of..and i have tried my best to come up with a rational and logical hypothesisas far as brokerage is concerned.rest everything can be debated and discussedas a trader my only interest lies in lowering my cost of tradingrest will follow..whether profit or lossbut i would definitely like to save on something on which i have some controli.e. Brokerage

best of luck smarttradeonline for coming up with a proposition which is the best of both worldin terms of flexibility as well as brokerage charged

regards and happy trading.njoy :thumb:




super dooper woofer like
 

soft_trader

Well-Known Member
Hey Sumit,

The first important thing for a professional day trader is to be well capitalized, in the US most brokers don't let a day trader open an account without 25,000USD in the account. With Rs 50,000 in your account and if you target to make Rs 50,000 every month, you know that there is no way in the world you will make it, even with zero brokerage. Merry Xmas!!!
Don't compare US with INDIA. They has higher per capita income than us. Lower inflation. Higher wages. Better trading terminals. Even better politicians........:p

A general job in US can earn you a few thousand dollars and if you convert them in INR then tell me how many of Indians working in top corporates earning equal to that?

The lot size of US contracts are also high so it's natural that 25K USD would be minimum.
 
Right now I am also trading with Zerodha....and what they have enabled is Cover order and not Bracket order...there is a difference between these two types of orders...Bracket order is one where along with stop-loss one can also put target price where automatically in case of profits the position gets squarred off...and the stop-loss is automatically cancelled....this is yet to be enabled

and in cover order one can only put stop-loss not target price....and being a trader myself I have seen the perils of leverage being to the tune of 8-10 times...and one can only imagine what will be the fate if leverage is 20-40 times...

Regards and Happy Trading:thumb:
Do the cover order offer OCO (one cancels other) feature?. Do any broker offer this in India?
 

soft_trader

Well-Known Member
Dear Sumit,

I just don't have other words in my dictionary to say THANK YOU. :thanx:Thank you billion times for your effort in Post #154 :cheers:

You have written the words of my heart. :) :yahoo: :)


If my post violates TJ rules in any way, Mods can remove my post. :)