Teach A Man To Fish And.........

Saint · #**1461** 9th April 2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prabhjeetrana

Too much has been said without understanding too little. Let me take some time to explain whats the essential difference b/w how I would and Saint would be different.

Accoding to Saint whenever a Pivot low would be cracked on shorter term chart ,we will look at longer term time frame and if the trend is up we will just get out of long trade and wait for pivot high to be taken out before going long again, but according to my strategy we dont wait for pivot high on shorter time frame to be taken out again instead we take the position on long side as soon as previous bar high is taken out on short term chart. Low of the last bar is taken as stoploss.

No harm in that provided you are trading the intermediate uptrend........that is the weekly charts.There is a difference in the way weekly behaves and the daily behaves.......Let's get to it.In a monthly uptrend,weekly goes into declines and on to newer highs,only every now and then a downtrend.But if you are trading the daily charts looking at the weekly as perspective........then that method does not work.Too much of ins and outs as we try to guess and anticipate entries.

No harm though if you don't mind losing quite a bit in brokerages and overtrading to get that absolute bottom.......but can get very painful after some time.

To reiterate:

TRADING THE WEEKLY-----LOOK AT MONTHLY UPTREND------YOU ARE LOOKING AT WEEKLY DECLINES TO ENTER,MEANING THE MOMENT THE PREVIOUS BAR'S HIGH IS TAKEN OUT,WE ARE IN.

TRADING THE DAILY-----LOOK AT WEEKLY UPTREND-----YOU ARE LOOKING AT DAILY DECLINES,BUT HERE YOU ARE NOT ADDING THE MOMENT THE PREVIOUS BAR'S HIGH IS TAKEN OUT,YOU ARE INSTEAD WAITING FOR PREVIOUS PIVOT HIGHS TO GET TAKEN OUT TO ENTER.

WHY?That's the way longer time frames behave.....and this is the way shorter time frames behave.

I have not been advocating too much about weekly trades purely because I don't think the risk can be managed by the readers of this thread who are usually the beginner..........There really is no harm in doing so if you can manage it.

Quote:

This strategy has an advantage of taking much less riskier
entries but the disadvantage is that we will get caught in many false moves.

Actually if you are talking about trading the weekly charts,more or less correct........but very wrong if you are trading the daily charts.....You are putting money at great risk by anticipating an entry in a dntrend,and of course the very many false moves.

Quote:

For anyone thinking that I have just jumped the gun without understanding what Saint has taught, plz. be assured that I have read Saint's all the teachings atleast 5 times and was trying to just put few of my modifications to work. Though I will like to add that my modification is not as good as original and everone should follow Saint's strategy only

No harm in adding,modifying,changing and finally making it yours..........

Quote:

There was another question asked somewhere by JAMIT that why I have taken 10% filter for pivot cracks, well the reason is that there are many bull and bear traps for smaller traders and I have tested it myself tht 10% filter has allowed me to stay in many times during false moves, will illustrate it using charts given by Saint

I would never use the 10% filter simply because I want to get out if pivots crack.......As said before,I do not want to second guess the market.Pivots crack,I'm out......If fake-out,will look to reenter....so no question of filters,etc.But no harm in trying out new things though.....

All the best!
Saint

ps:Sorry for the caps above.......they are meant to emphasise the point.

Saint · #**1462** 9th April 2008, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsinha

I may be wrong.....don't take offence. But I thibk, there's nothing called false pivot crack. A pivot crack is a pivot crack.....we shud take it as a warning. A warning that downtrend may begin.....Now since it's a warning only....downtrend may as well not begin right after the pivot crack and the price may tend to go up. But it's for our own safety.
Well some of you may say that......since price is sometimes going up even after a pivot crack....we shud not exit.......well if you spot higher low and higher highs even after a pivot crack...u can re-enter.....it'll cost only the brokerages......but that's worth it...i think .......specially if you consider the safety and the soundness of risk-management that this strategy provides.

Now dear prabhjeet, to answer your querry......u shud exit at all black arrows.....giving disregard to those red arrows. I remember Saint reiterated many times that stoploss hit shud be paid regard to. Now red arrows are also stoploss hit cases...so we shud respect those and exit......remember, it's a system generated exit strategy...your system is giving u warning signals.....so better u shud follow it...isn't it?....

Cannot add more to the above......Agreed,DJ!

Saint

Saint · #**1463** 9th April 2008, 02:24 AM

Presuming I am a Weekly Chart Trader.....and I want to look to enter ABAN OFFSHORE.....I look at the Monthly Charts,I see a breakout,.........now I look at the Weekly charts,and I try to buy the moment the weekly decline is arrested and starts to rally.....I am not waiting for new pivot highs.

All the blue arrows are pivot lows and declines and will try to enter once price starts to shoot off,usually signified by taking previous bar's high,or above the high of a sideways consolidation.

Saint

ps:This chart is only telling pivot lows and possible entry areas.

Saint · #**1464** 9th April 2008, 02:43 AM

Entries and Exits on an ABAN WEEKLY .....stop losses not indicated,as always the pevious pivot lows.

Saint

Saint · #**1465** 9th April 2008, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapaswi.S

Dear Prabhjeet,
just look at the photograph of saint. can this man ever get angry??? never ever

Tapaswi.S

Not at all,my friend.......anger does happen every now and then.....

Saint

Saint · #**1466** 9th April 2008, 03:20 AM

A few definitions using DIVIS LABS regd Uptrend,Downtrend,Declines,and Rallies......

As always,we look to buy declines in an uptrend on the weekly charts,but we never,never buy in a downtrend.

We look to short rallies in a downtrend,but we never look to short an uptrend.

Saint

prabhjeetrana · #**1467** 9th April 2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

Prabhjeet,

Nothing said in this thread belongs to only me......they have been around from the advent of the stock market.

Not angered at all.......a bit sad though that I am unable to communicate what I see......but haven't given up as yet.

I am going to analyse your last few posts.......and let us all learn from this exchange of thoughts.

All the best!
Saint

Thanx Saint, will try to grab whet you teach in your further posts and may be try to clear my mind.

Just one question Saint that has been bothering me. As you have told that we look at larger time chart for perspective and trade shorter term chart. Suppose both weekly and daily is in uptrend and suddenly daily breaks the pivot low. My question is :-

1. Where should we reenter, at the start of a new rally (higher lows and highs on daily bars) or do we wait for pivot high to be taken out again for entry

2. When do we pyramid

jamit_05 · #**1468** 9th April 2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prabhjeetrana

Thanx Saint, will try to grab whet you teach in your further posts and may be try to clear my mind.

Just one question Saint that has been bothering me. As you have told that we look at larger time chart for perspective and trade shorter term chart. Suppose both weekly and daily is in uptrend and suddenly daily breaks the pivot low. My question is :-

1. Where should we reenter, at the start of a new rally (higher lows and highs on daily bars) or do we wait for pivot high to be taken out again for entry

2. When do we pyramid

Hello Saint,

The answer to prabhjeetrana's first question is that we enter at the break of a pivot high in daily. We cannot enter merely at the next rally, since it is not proof enough of the change of daily trend. But a break of a pivot high is.

Now my question:

Pivot highs are broken in two ways.

Case 1: by making a previous higher pivot low.
Case 2: by making a previous double bottom or a lower pivot low.

Therefore, do I enter at the break of a pivot high irrespective of the above two cases?

My argument really is, Case 1 sounds more solid but then again we want to cathc trends. So there is chance that due to addition of such a filter we might lose out on few such trends. As a result we might be in a situation where we'll end up with a comparatively longer streak of losses.

Please comment.

Amit.

raosrinivas · #**1469** 9th April 2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapaswi.S

Dear Prabhjeet,
just look at the photograph of saint. can this man ever get angry??? never ever

Tapaswi.S

Tapaswi, right mostly saint is very calm, but he can get angry at times, i remember a thread where saint had a very heated discussion with another member, i don't remember if that member is still in or out . may be this same thread, but long back

prabhjeetrana · #**1470** 9th April 2008, 12:11 PM

Saint I have attached the charts with the questions using Nifty, plz. explain the entry strategy

Regards