Teach A Man To Fish And.........

Saint · #**1011** 30th November 2007, 04:31 AM

Quote:

With regard to current trend, we had gone long on Nifty after Nifty started an upmove in Weekly chart from higher Pivot High, we continued to be long and kept on moving the stoploss higher & higher, based on the higher pivot lows in daily chart. If we see the current daily and weekly charts, we would have been stopped out of the markets (though with good profits) because Nifty has broken the previous daily pivot low. However, if we see the weekly charts, it seems that pivot low is not yet reached, and also, it may be a higer pivot low on weekly charts, and a continuation of trend.

So my query is, is it OK to get out of trade based on daily charts pivot low being taken out, or should we wait for weekly pivot low break down.

There are many longer term traders who would hold only till a weekly pivot cracks..........but then again there are people like us intent on catching the direction of the move and then staying out when it does the corrections.

Chart attached.....

Quote:

I feel that following daily chart for getting out has its own advantages and disadvantages, and likewise following weekly charts for exits has its own. Following weekly charts for exits might actually give far greater returns and longer duration of trades, but drawdown periods and amounts will also be larger, having a psychological effect.

Yes,and therefore the importance of position sizing et al......finally it's all about the time frame that you are most comfortable with.

Quote:

I, being a novice, don't know if what I have written above makes sense or not. But I hope that you would understand what I want to say, since I think I have not been fully able to express my thoughts in words.

Thanks in Advance
Gupta

Definitely........always clarify your doubts.In fact,a question that I would not expect from a novice.

All the best!
Saint

Saint · #**1012** 30th November 2007, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbee

Hello GD

I am not qualified to answer your query. Just adding my 2 cents . .

Your question reflects similar dilema I was facing, perhaps all of us newbies will have to face, till such time we have not finally setteled down with a choice of time frame for our trades.

In this method given out by SAINT for trend following, we are refering to 2 time frames. A higher TF for the broader picture and a smaller one for entries and exits.

In your case if you are trading on the Daily Time Frame using EoD charts, your exit will be on a break of Pivot Low on that time frame, weekly TF is for trend guidance, so you will be looking again for a Long entry if weekly is still in an uptrend.

I trade this method for Intraday. In my case was struggling with 1 minute / 5 minute choice with a similar thought process, finally seclected the 5 minutes with 30 mins for an anchor chart for trend guidance.

It makes perfect sense to me, or maybe I am also equally confused

Do keep posting regularly, maybe with your charts, it will helps us all to exchange views and get feedback from SAINT

Thanks
nb

Ouch.....after all that effort and attaching a chart,etc,query been answered already......Great Going,NB!

Nah,you're not confused at all.......great clarity,in fact.

All the best!
Saint

Saint · #**1013** 30th November 2007, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbee

Hello SAINT

Made a mistake of trying to predict, made another mistake of trading based on it, to top it the market rewarded this behaviour with substantial gains.

Honestly, feel on top of the world, for the prediction and successful trade but am aware that this is wrong so can say have mixed feelings about it.

Have read somewhere that Markets are the worst place to learn intutively. Learning becomes easy if we get positive reinforcments for right action and negative for wrong ones, something like carrot and a stick.

I just hope am able to kick this urge to predict, before it becomes a habbit.

Thanks
nb
Trade what you See, not what you Think

Kick that urge,and fast!Can destroy you one day.....so careful.

In your daily journal,etc......break each trade into a good trade and a bad trade.A good trade is that trade where you followed your trading plan to the hilt ,took profits as planned and exitted as planned.A good trade is also that trade where you followed your trading plan,adhered to your stops and exitted as per the plan.

A bad trade is that trade where you did not adhere to your stops and watched helplessly as the stock dumped and dumped,and the only action from your end is to run helter skelter,sweat profusely,pray hope and then finally exit anyway with a huge loss.A bad trade is also that trade where the trading plan was not followed but profits came in anyway.

Believe me when I tell you that the 2nd type of bad trade is the worst.......the market rewards you for your mistakes,you get complacent,overconfident,suckers you into more such trades and then WHAM!comes that trade that takes it all away.......Very careful,my friend.

So however good you feel.........write it down as a Bad trade,forget about it,and then proceed to make the good trades.

Saint

anoopkumar · #**1014** 30th November 2007, 10:22 AM

Dear Sir,

I request you to spare some time from ur busy schedule to explain the criteria used for re-entry on around 23/24 OCT and around 12 th NOV in reference to Nifty daily chart dt 29th NOV attached by you. Also, the stop loss for both the re-entry trade is not a conventional one ie cracking of previous pivot low. In first case, it seems to be low of 5 bars back and for second its low of 2 bar back. Also, there is a reference of crack of major pivot. what is the criteria for designating it as major pivot.

The crieria for re-entry assumes significance because following daily chart has necessaited a couple of in and out trade whereas those following weekly may still be sitting tight with their trade because no weekly pivot seems to have been cracked for the similar duration in weekly chart. Thanx and regards!
-Anoop Kumar

newbee · #**1015** 30th November 2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

Kick that urge,and fast!Can destroy you one day.....so careful.

In your daily journal,etc......break each trade into a good trade and a bad trade.A good trade is that trade where you followed your trading plan to the hilt ,took profits as planned and exitted as planned.A good trade is also that trade where you followed your trading plan,adhered to your stops and exitted as per the plan.

A bad trade is that trade where you did not adhere to your stops and watched helplessly as the stock dumped and dumped,and the only action from your end is to run helter skelter,sweat profusely,pray hope and then finally exit anyway with a huge loss.A bad trade is also that trade where the trading plan was not followed but profits came in anyway.

Believe me when I tell you that the 2nd type of bad trade is the worst.......

the market rewards you for your mistakes,

you get complacent,overconfident,

suckers you into more such trades and then WHAM!

comes that trade that takes it all away.......

Very careful,my friend.

So however good you feel.........write it down as a Bad trade,

forget about it,and then proceed to make the good trades.

Saint

Hello Sir,

I just feel am being personally coached by you, always been getting some thing I need to know from you, right at the time I need it.

I will try to set up a regime, after reviewing the days trades if I conclude that I broke some rules, I would set up a task for myself (like maybe taking that extra round of shivaji park) thus it would give me some reinforcement also that extra jogging will do me good, truly a win-win situation.

This goes straight into my trading plan.

Thanks

TRADE WHAT YOU SEE, NOT WHAT YOU THINK

ametrader · #**1016** 30th November 2007, 09:34 PM

hello... i hav been following ur thread for quite sme tme now... can u plz telme throw sme light on these stocks: rel. cap. ventures ltd. and rel. enegy ventures ltd. and rel chemotex...

gupta.deep · #**1017** 1st December 2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

Ouch.....after all that effort and attaching a chart,etc,query been answered already......Great Going,NB!

Nah,you're not confused at all.......great clarity,in fact.

All the best!
Saint

Hi Saint,

Your words always fill in the confidence. Therefore, your reply does matter. And the way you presented it thru the chart was great.

Thanks indeed for that.

Now, one clarification I have is, when is going to be the reentry point? Since the market this time made a lower pivot high, may be a downtrend is in the offing. However, which of the following is the best reentry point:

1. Market breaks on the upside from the recent lower pivot high.
2. Market breaks on the upside from the previous major pivot low.
3. Market breaks on the upside from the previous major pivot high.

Just to be clear, I have attached the chart also.

Offcourse, only if weekly chart still is bullish.

What are the other possibilities.

Regards,
SKG

gupta.deep · #**1018** 1st December 2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

Most welcome,my friend...

think it's this post,I guess...http://www.traderji.com/101013-post637.html

Shall answer the rest later.....

Saint

Hats off to your Saint !!

Even though I raised the query, I did not take the pain to find out the post. And you as the answerer were more serious in providing the correct answer and correct references !! That's awsome !!!!!

Each of your post contains a learning for us. Its upto us to understand and adopt that to our lifestyle. If we can get even 50% of that, we would be a much much better person.

Thanks,
SKG

lvgandhi · #**1019** 2nd December 2007, 09:22 AM

Dear Saint
I attaching daily and weekly charts of Nifty. I feel Nifty daily chart has made a higher pivot low on 28th nov and on 30th nov it has gone above the previous pivot high on 26th nov. Further Nifty weekly has a higher pivot low on 23rd nov compared to 26th Oct and thus continuing uptrend. with this can we say a new uptrend in nifty started or should we wait until next pivot high is made in weekly nifty compared to pivot high made on 2nd nov ie 6012?

arasu1234 · #**1020** 4th December 2007, 12:46 AM

it is good wordings, pls let also know how to fish