Saint's Pivot Method put to practice.

Saint · #41 10th June 2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shrineha

Hello Saint,

Thanks a lot for the quick and fantastic summary.

I also have confusion about when to use Pivot and when to use 2 bar method while decising on trailing stoplosses. Can you also summarise this . I think it will help many of us. I have also asked the same doubt on Fishing thread.

Its great to have people like you and many seniors who are always there to help when a doubt is asked.

Kind regards,
Shrineha

Ah,that Fishing thread..........

Shall do,Shrineha.......in a bit.

Saint

jamit_05 · #42 10th June 2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

Hi Sanjay,

If you are looking at trading the 5,with the 30 as a perspective chart.........all you need to look out for is:

--->Is the 30min in an uptrend?If no,look for shorts.If yes,look for longs.
Exception to the above rule:When you get a huge unidirectional fall,you get an extended move in all time frames.Here,you could look at going long even in a 30 min downtrend.

Now look at the 5min chart.....A few scenarios:

a.30min uptrend,5min downtrend--->Buy above previous pivot high on the 5.
b.30min uptrend,5min decline---->Buy above previous pivot high on the 5.
c.30min uptrend,5min downtrend,and then a visual gap down----->Buy the 5min high.Or short the 5min low.
d.30min uptrend,5min uptrend,and a visual gap up----->Short the 5min high.Or buy the 5min high.Stops at the high or low of that bar/candle depending on the direction.

Another gazillion scenarios must be there........just putting up a few that comes to mind.To answer your question,...........30min is in an uptrend,5min is in an uptrend and probably a mild decline....yep,buy the break to new highs with your stop at previous pivot low.

As Satya said,sweeter to go long at the end of the 5min dntrend.........but can't always wait for one.Yep,Sanjay,right-on as always.

All the best!
Saint

Having read piece of Saint's mind lets update the rules:

1) Find the trend in 30 min:

To have an uptrend we need both, a higher pivot high and a higher pivot low. Vice versa for downtrend.

While in an uptrend, if a 30 min PL is broken then the uptrend ceases to exist. We wait for the next trend formation, which could be an Up again or a down.

2) Long Entries.

In this 30 min uptrend, we DO NOT wait for a 5 min downtrend. We simply enter at the break of a 5 min PH. Stop is the previous 5 min pivot low.

3) Exit.
Is when a pivot low in 5 min chart is taken out.

4) ADDS:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

Basically,it's about getting in on x position,if initial stops are triggerred,well,happens............If it doesn't,and makes newer pivot highs,then important to add many x positions on the way,till trail stops are triggerred.

Adding and where to add is important......Important though that the adds come in on the way up........not adding more to losing positions.This game is all about winning big and losing small.....and finding ways to win big many times and lose small lesser no. of times..........but again,I am talking about myself.Am sure other strategies work too.

Good stuff,Sanjay.

Saint

Since we have clear guidelines now, lets put the adds as well on the charts. Adds will be in the direction of the trend and only after the previous trade is out of the rough.

The core idea behind the adds: While the chart is really trending we will profit on several positions. On the otherhand if the chart is not behaving favorably then we will lose on just one position.
Amit

jamit_05 · #43 10th June 2008, 02:57 PM

Now, the attachment shows the adds as well. Hope you guys find them appropriate.

jamit_05 · #44 10th June 2008, 02:58 PM

Trailing Stop of 4395.70 is breached, as a result we are out of all positions!

Now geared to watch for new shorts (bad pun, I know!)

PS: 30 min Pivots Updated
Current 30 min Pivots to watch out for:

PH: 4500.70 (Unchanged)
PL: 4334.00

Saint · #45 10th June 2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamit_05

Trailing Stop of 4395.70 is breached, as a result we are out of all positions!

nice out,Amit......we now have an uptrend on the 5 and a downtrend on the 30.

Means using this method,you would stay out of the long.....What we are looking for is for the 30 min to give a rally,and then sideways to mild decline forming a higher pivot low.

Or the rally takes out previous pivot highs.

Saint

Smart_trade · #46 10th June 2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

Hi Sanjay,

If you are looking at trading the 5,with the 30 as a perspective chart.........all you need to look out for is:

--->Is the 30min in an uptrend?If no,look for shorts.If yes,look for longs.
Exception to the above rule:When you get a huge unidirectional fall,you get an extended move in all time frames.Here,you could look at going long even in a 30 min downtrend.

Now look at the 5min chart.....A few scenarios:

a.30min uptrend,5min downtrend--->Buy above previous pivot high on the 5.
b.30min uptrend,5min decline---->Buy above previous pivot high on the 5.
c.30min uptrend,5min downtrend,and then a visual gap down----->Buy the 5min high.Or short the 5min low.
d.30min uptrend,5min uptrend,and a visual gap up----->Short the 5min high.Or buy the 5min high.Stops at the high or low of that bar/candle depending on the direction.

Another gazillion scenarios must be there........just putting up a few that comes to mind.To answer your question,...........30min is in an uptrend,5min is in an uptrend and probably a mild decline....yep,buy the break to new highs with your stop at previous pivot low.

As Satya said,sweeter to go long at the end of the 5min dntrend.........but can't always wait for one.Yep,Sanjay,right-on as always.

All the best!
Saint

Is there a typo error in scenario 'd' ie ..................short the 5 min low you mean.If so could you pl correct it as it will correct the records for reference in future.

Saint · #47 10th June 2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smart_trade

Is there a typo error in scenario 'd' ie ..................short the 5 min low you mean.If so could you pl correct it as it will correct the records for reference in future.

thanx smart trade........editted.

Saint

rakeshluthra430 · #48 10th June 2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint

c.30min uptrend,5min downtrend,and then a visual gap down----->Buy the 5min high.Or short the 5min low.

All the best!
Saint

Hi Saint,
In the scenario C of your post.... when you say visual gap down... does that gap still has to be above the PL on 30 min.. Or do we buy even when the 30 min PL gets broken? I presume that the 'gap' being talked abt is the opening gap.

Also...please explain the areas where you would look to book profits...like a 'hammer' after a sharp decline...or congestion area.

If this is not getting too much...please also educate us of the scenarios where we enter the trade with 2ice the normal position size as also when we get in with Half.
I ask this bec once we get familiar with entries/exits/stops etc...its the position sizing and pyramiding which are going to mmake all the difference.

Thanks a lot as always,
Rakesh

jamit_05 · #49 10th June 2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapaswi.S

Great initiative amit, this would definitely help us in learning Saint’s method to perfection. One request, as already said by rkkarnani please try to add charts where ever possible and convenient to you.

with best wishes

Tapaswi.S

I will add the charts. Tks for the feedback.

charankpm · #50 10th June 2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamit_05

Pls refer to the attachment for Mondays Trades.

Entries are in Blue Numbers and their corresponding Exits in Red. This is very simple currently as only One trade is held at a time.

I am still holding the last entry at 4434.70, since the stop is not hit.

PS: All three of my trading Heroes have taken notice and graced the thread with their advice. Now, I am very positive that we will extract something of good value from this excercise.

pl give the direction of the entries with buy and sell arrows it will give even clearer picture
thankyou very much

charan